Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

[khoji]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@Ali_Syed

Will the question regarding Hazrat Ayesha’s (RA) age be asked from us in our graves?

No age of hz Aisha itself is a trivial matter. But wrong assumption of her age could result in abuse of thousands of children in a society. And this is why I think this is a serious issue.

Religion can not be a tool to abuse people.

I myself usually do not take much interest in religious discussions involving personal acts. But when such discussions result in effecting lives of individuals and society in general, then I would like to jump in and hope to make a positive impact.

People who overlook such abuses are conducting un-Islamic acts. And it does not matter how much they claim to be the followers.

Islam stands of JUSTICE. And this justice is for ALL.

[psyah]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@jaanaan

Prophets are not supposed to follow the norms. they are iconoclasts. they are supposed to change the society.
if they should be following the norms, then they would be like everyone else, right?

this is not a trivial issue. the age at which a woman is mature enough for marriage might differ from culture to culture, but if marriage is supposed to be about procreation ( as most religions claim it should be for) then a 9 years old is too young for it.

Peace jaanaan

The 9 year old we are talking about here (RA) … never had children.

[khoji]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@psyah

Peace jaanaan

The 9 year old we are talking about here (RA) … never had children.

But I am sure there are thousands of marriages of 9 years which occurred on the basis of accepting her age to be 9 year old … and such marriages do result in early pregnancy resulting in complications.

http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/341/facts.html

• Maternal Mortality: Girls younger than 15 are five times more likely to die during child birth or pregnancy than older women. Pregnancy-related deaths are the leading cause of mortality for girls aged 15 to 19 worldwide.
• Infant Mortality: Mortality rates for babies born to mothers under age 20 are almost 75% higher than for children born to older mothers. The children that survive are more likely to be premature, have a low birth weight, and are more at risk for contracting HIV/AIDS.
• Health Problems: Premature childbirth can lead to a variety of health problems for mothers, including fistula, a debilitating condition that causes chronic incontinence. Girls with fistula are often abandoned by their husbands and ostracized by society. There are approximately 2 million girls living with fistula, and 100,000 new cases every year.
• HIV/AIDS: Married girls may be more likely to contract sexually transmitted disease, including HIV/AIDS, than unmarried girls. Young girls are more physically susceptible to STD’s, have less access to reproductive education and health services and are often powerless to demand the use of contraception.
• Illiteracy: Child brides are often pulled out of school and denied further education. Their children are also more likely to be illiterate.
• Mental Health: Violence and abuse can lead to post-traumatic stress and depression.

Nightmare Nuptials

Badriya Hassas, a gynecologist in Rabiya Balkhi Hospital in Kabul, says that shortly after being married, many young girls are admitted to hospital in a state of shock from serious physical injuries and psychological trauma.

“Some of these girls suffer irreversible physical damage,” Hassas tells RFE/RL. “They suffer from tearing and extensive bleeding. Besides, they usually come to hospital too late – after massive bleeding, and in a state of shock. We have personally seen many such cases.”

[jaanaan]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@psyah

Peace jaanaan

The 9 year old we are talking about here (RA) … never had children.

thats not the point I was making. the point was that women at nine are not ready for marriage because they are not ready for sexual acts. and the Prophet did consummate marriage with Aisha at that age.
dont try to shove the issue under carpet by making stupid comments just so you can defend the defenceless.

[psyah]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@jaanaan

thats not the point I was making. the point was that women at nine are not ready for marriage because they are not ready for sexual acts. and the Prophet did consummate marriage with Aisha at that age.
dont try to shove the issue under carpet by making stupid comments just so you can defend the defenceless.

I think I was trying to demonstrate that there are females around the world that are ready and do have sexual relations at 9 - but I agree it is not the norm.

[psyah]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@khoji

But I am sure there are thousands of marriages of 9 years which occurred on the basis of accepting her age to be 9 year old … and such marriages do result in early pregnancy resulting in complications.

Child Brides - Child Marriage: What We Know . NOW | PBS

• Maternal Mortality: Girls younger than 15 are five times more likely to die during child birth or pregnancy than older women. Pregnancy-related deaths are the leading cause of mortality for girls aged 15 to 19 worldwide.
• Infant Mortality: Mortality rates for babies born to mothers under age 20 are almost 75% higher than for children born to older mothers. The children that survive are more likely to be premature, have a low birth weight, and are more at risk for contracting HIV/AIDS.
• Health Problems: Premature childbirth can lead to a variety of health problems for mothers, including fistula, a debilitating condition that causes chronic incontinence. Girls with fistula are often abandoned by their husbands and ostracized by society. There are approximately 2 million girls living with fistula, and 100,000 new cases every year.
• HIV/AIDS: Married girls may be more likely to contract sexually transmitted disease, including HIV/AIDS, than unmarried girls. Young girls are more physically susceptible to STD’s, have less access to reproductive education and health services and are often powerless to demand the use of contraception.
• Illiteracy: Child brides are often pulled out of school and denied further education. Their children are also more likely to be illiterate.
• Mental Health: Violence and abuse can lead to post-traumatic stress and depression.

Afghanistan: Marriage Practice Victimizes Young Girls, Society
Badriya Hassas, a gynecologist in Rabiya Balkhi Hospital in Kabul, says that shortly after being married, many young girls are admitted to hospital in a state of shock from serious physical injuries and psychological trauma.

“Some of these girls suffer irreversible physical damage,” Hassas tells RFE/RL. “They suffer from tearing and extensive bleeding. Besides, they usually come to hospital too late – after massive bleeding, and in a state of shock. We have personally seen many such cases.”

Peace khoji

Sayyidah Aisha (RA) was obviously not part of this affected demographic.

[khoji]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@psyah

Peace khoji

Sayyidah Aisha (RA) was obviously not part of this affected demographic.

No she was not part of it. Because she was NOT 9 at the time of consummation of marriage.

But you gotta agree that even with all the reservations you raised about marrying as early as 9, THERE ARE many cases where this abuse took place on the basis of accepting her age to be 9.

[psyah]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@khoji

No she was not part of it. Because she was NOT 9 at the time of consummation of marriage.

But you gotta agree that even with all the reservations you raised about marrying as early as 9, THERE ARE many cases where this abuse took place on the basis of accepting her age to be 9.

Peace khoji

The references that say 9 was the age of consummation are in my view hard to accept, because I can’t see how they would obtain that information. I think it is a translation error. However, if 9 was the age when Aisha (RA) moved in with RasoolAllah (SAW) according to her own narration I don’t have a problem with that.

Why are you continuing to throw the practice of Muslims on to me … I agree with you, but at the same time I do not use the hadith to justify their actions. I feel even they don’t use the hadith to justify their actions - they just do it because of society’s expectations.

From the way you are talking it seems as though you want to us to delete those sections of the hadith … I don’t exactly know what you are trying to prove.

[Mughal1]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Dear friends, please think before you say or do anything in the name of islam, quran, God and his messenger. This is a serious matter.

1. Do not attribute to God anything that is inconsistent with his nature or his set plan or purpose for mankind. This means not attributing to the quran concepts that are clearly false.

2. Do not attribute to his messenger anything that is inconsistent with his God set mission because the quran testifies that he fulfilled his mission.

3. There are only two supernatural events in history A) creation of the universe and B) The divine revelations. Other than that all else is explainable sooner or later as humanity advances in its discoveries with time and effort.

4. Islam was opposed by humanity right from the beginning because each time mankind were shown the right path, most of them ignored it and even those who followed it for a time gave it up as time went by. Each time people were put on the right path, they just side tracked and today things are not any different.

5. After the final divine messenger, it was up to ulema of ummah to keep people stuck to deen but they failed very badly though not totally. I say totally because all we are left with is complete information about islam but no sense to understand it and make sense of it. It means ulema were only successful in preserving information about islam but failed in giving proper sense of islam to ummah ie they failed to educate people to be able to understand islam properly.

6. It is time to change all that through mutual support ie let us not waste time but help educate each other about proper islam.

Question arises, how to find out what is proper islam? I am trying to answer this question in the following thread so please read it.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-scripture/571290-civilisation-how-did-it-all-happen-by-david-neiman.html?#post9062004

If you do not build on the foundation provided by Allah then you are not going to be successful. This statement is not a joke, take a look at history of humanity and this will continue in the future. This alone proves the quran divine. It is because despite last 1400 + years we have not been able to put things right by ignoring the quranic program.

Coming to what is discussed in this thread, it is all thanks to our mullas. Why? Because they gave us imperialism in the name of islam. They gave us priestism in the name of islam. They gave us capitalism in the name of islam. They gave us institution for slavery in the name of islam and I can go on and on and likewise they gave us the right to have child brides in the name of islam and prostitution in the name of islam.

When are we going to start thinking that islam is not a mazhab but ADDEEN and word islam means peace and it is not aqeedah but a God set goal to be accomplished and maintained for the good of humanity?

AQEEDAH or mazhab is make belief because it is not based on any evidence ie it is a system of blind faith to turn humans into animals. Not only it is not based upon evidence but there is ample evidence against it in the quran and in the universe in which we live. No wonder quran calls such people animals or even worse because they are given brains and senses yet they use them not.

If islam means peaceful way of life and it does mean that then how can any man or woman be given right to use and abuse anyone else because that creates trouble not peace in society.

It is therefore very important for people to go though the link provided so that we do not talk and do things like ignorant fools. Any piece of information found in islamic sources must be judged by the quranic standard and the quran itself must be judged by standard set by mankind whereby they decide all there cases in their courts of law without any dispute. This standard does not come from humanity itself but God because it is found in the quran and it was in very first divine revelation according to the quran whereby people were told to settle their disputes. Anyone who follows mullas should be helped not condemned or cursed.

Our nonmuslim brothers and sister must also judge islam by same rules they use in their own law courts otherwise their judgement is based upon ignorance and no matter who decides matters on basis of blind faith is absolutely wrong because that position is indefensible. Mere arguments between priestly classes of various religions is proof of that. What has blinf faith to do with arguing for what is right or wrong? Blind faith is blind faith so none has the right to argue with each other. Arguments are for proving who is right or wrong.

If any of my muslim brethren want to debate with nonmuslims they must read what I have written and prepare themselves. No point taking wrong stand and arguing endlessly to try and defend it. If islam is worth defending then it has to have solid foundation and it does. All religions are invented by priestly classes and it is so obvious from the scriptures of other religions. In fact if nonmuslims study their own scriptures in light of the criterion I am putting forth they will see their scriptures support quranic stand and where they disagree they fall apart. A clear proof that quran is really divine in its origin just like the universe because humanity has no valid explanation for existence of either of them.

Finally please educate yourselves so that you are not found acting childish when faced with scrutiny of your stance. When you claim blind faith you are only making fool of yourself and give bad name to your foundation whatever it may be. An ignorant person who claims to be a muslim thus gives bad reputation to islam because his wrong ideas about islam others take as islam and condemned them. This way you are responsible for driving people away from islam because you are acting as bad advertisement for islam. If you claim to be muslims it is only right that you learn islam so that you are a good advertisement for islam. This ummah was supposed to be an exemplary people for other people to see and follow, ask yourselves, are we?

regards and all the best.

[Mughal1]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@psyah

I think I was trying to demonstrate that there are females around the world that are ready and do have sexual relations at 9 - but I agree it is not the norm.

Dear brother psyah, please realise the fact that two wrongs do not make right. Even if whole world does something bad it does not legitimise it. Once upon a time slavery was thought to be ok, but it is not ok now but that does not mean it was ok then in actual fact to do so. No divine messenger ever did anything against God or humanity. All messengers were educated by God to educate people for living in this world peacefully so that they have better hope for hereafter.

We must not accept or argue for things that are attributed to islam that are against the fundamental values of islam. They are clearly based upon mistaken information or false information.

regards and all the best.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Alarm as hundreds of children under age of 10 married in Iran - Telegraph

Its spokesman, Farshid Yazdani, blamed deepening poverty for the development, which he said was more common in socially backward rural areas often afflicted with high levels of illiteracy and drug addiction.
“Financial poverty of the families leads to children’s marriages. However, cultural poverty and ignorance is also an element,” Mr Yazdani told the semi-official Mehr news agency.
He said increasing child marriages were accompanied by a correspondingly high teenage divorce rate. Some 15,000 females aged 15-19 divorced their husbands every year between 2007 and 2010.
The statistics will fuel criticism that** Iran’s**](http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/)** I**slamic legal code allows children, especially girls, to be married at an inappropriately early age.

[khoji]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

^ Like I said earlier, this issue transcends the shia sunni split. It is a problem throughout the Islamic world, and needs attention of our clerics at the earliest.
Just like sunni uleman, a large number of shia ulema accept hz Aisha’s age to be 5 or 6 at the time of marriage, and 9 at the time of consummation of marriage.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

The answer to the original question we can get if we ask ourselves the following questions:

1. What was the age of Sita when she wed Rama?

2. At what age did Mary (RA) give birth to Jesus (RA)?

3. At what age was Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk marry?

4. At what age did Isabella of valois wed Richard II?

[jaanaan]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@Ali_Syed

The answer to the original question we can get if we ask ourselves the following questions:

1. What was the age of Sita when she wed Rama?

2. At what age did Mary (RA) give birth to Jesus (RA)?

3. At what age was Anne de Mowbray, 8th Countess of Norfolk marry?

4. At what age did Isabella of valois wed Richard II?

Is Sita and Ram a true story? were they even historical people or just myths like Zeus and Athena? how does the marriage of one person justify the marriage of another?

[FairysAngel]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Worldwide age limit for marriage is set and there is law. I think everyone well aware of that. Only God knows the marriage circumstances of Hazrat Aisha with Prophet PBUH.

Media propagate marriage with minors, Anti Islamist pin it and degrade Islam and we start debating with our poor knowledge without realizing that we are actually talking about whom?

Brother & Sisters! We are talking about Um-ul-Momineen and ‘Khatamul-Anbiyah. Keep in mind that if our God can create Eve a.s. from one single male, Jesus a.s. from one single female, we all human from one male & female than why there is so much confusion about marriage and consummation of Um-ul-Momineen and Prophet PBUH ? and Prophet PBUH was that noble personality who putted His salvia in the eye of Ali r.a. before the Fatah-e-Khaibar and Ali’s r.a. eyes cured.

Do you think that God was unaware from this marriage or HE abandoned His servant PBUH after that marriage?

With due respect, kindly stop this madness and seek astagfar from Allah SWT.

If one marry with minor, there is a law for protection / punishment but please keep away our beloved Prophet PBUH and His wife r.a. out of these discussion.

[diwana]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@jaanaan

Prophets are not supposed to follow the norms. they are iconoclasts. they are supposed to change the society.
if they should be following the norms, then they would be like everyone else, right?

…

Yes they are not supposed to follow norm if they are ethically/morally wrongful acts. They are suppose to change the norms which are wrong.

But you have to first prove that the norm of the society is/was wrong. When the exact age is in question/doubtful then how will that be possible?

[psyah]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@Mughal1

Dear brother psyah, please realise the fact that two wrongs do not make right. Even if whole world does something bad it does not legitimise it. Once upon a time slavery was thought to be ok, but it is not ok now but that does not mean it was ok then in actual fact to do so. No divine messenger ever did anything against God or humanity. All messengers were educated by God to educate people for living in this world peacefully so that they have better hope for hereafter.

We must not accept or argue for things that are attributed to islam that are against the fundamental values of islam. They are clearly based upon mistaken information or false information.

regards and all the best.

Peace Mughal1

You are arguing from the perspective of putting my rationale before my references and sciences of authenticity of Hadith … That to me is a dangerous precedence.

How do you know marrying a 9 year old female is wrong?

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@jaanaan

Is Sita and Ram a true story? were they even historical people or just myths like Zeus and Athena? how does the marriage of one person justify the marriage of another?

Sita and Ram was a true story or not, even if it was a story it depicts a particular culture and the act is being carried out by a large proportion of India even today, infact 40 percent of child marriages take place there. As far as christianity is concerned i have given examples from there too. The fact remains the marriages which we call child marriages now have been very common in all cultures, and even now mostly they are being driven by culture as compared to religion.

[Ali_Syed]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

Most of the child marriages today take place in Africa, India and some Muslim countries from Asia.

Child Brides - Child Marriage: What We Know . NOW | PBS

[Mughal1]

Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife

@psyah

Peace Mughal1

You are arguing from the perspective of putting my rationale before my references and sciences of authenticity of Hadith … That to me is a dangerous precedence.

How do you know marrying a 9 year old female is wrong?

Dear brother, if we read the quran as a manifesto for islam and as a constitution of islam(=peace progress and prosperity) then we see that the quran does not allows us to say and do anything that is harmful for mankind. The quran terms all harmful sayings and doings by people as AL KHABEES. This is why other than whatever is khabees we take it as al-tayyib. This is basis that is given to us to form laws according to.

The quran tells us that all divine messenger brought to humanity nothing but goodness in all its forms. This is why their coming is a blessing for mankind. Their life and death and rising up all is termed a blessing by Allah in the quran. Now if we say that such and such prophet said or did anything that harmed humanity then we are uttering a lie against Allah who testifies that they never did anything on purpose to harm anyone.

The quran also tells us a rule regarding judging a matter whether it is beneficial or harmful for mankind and that rule is try and see what will result if we took certain actions. If the action will result in benefiting humanity then it is good and if it is other way round then it is bad. This is major argument used in the quran to prove the quranic truth by direct evidence.

The question is, is there evidence that marrying off very young girls is a bad idea? We know that in general there is.

This being the case if any hadith report tells us things about God or prophet that seem inconsistent with their beings then we must reject it. Why? Because no man is as honourable and dignified as divine messengers. So a reporter in the chain of narrators is either mistaken or is deliberate liar.

You might say, well how can a man such as a reporter of a hadith lie? But then how can a divine messenger go against the set out program of Allah? A man who comes to lead humanity to path of God with set program from him that proves its own authenticity, if he does anything wrong the whole thing collapses. After that hadith becomes totally useless no matter who narrates it. So in my view we cannot prove hadith authentic if it discredits God or any of his messengers. It is because upon that foundation the narrators themselves claims to stand. It is like you are cutting off the same branch of the tree that you are resting upon. So you fall with it. If you are accepting a person as your leader and yet talk against him as well in a way that discredits him then what are you talking about?

The divine messengers do not come to follow existing wrong ideologies for societies, politics, cultures and economics etc rather they come to change things including their systems, structures, procedures and practices because they are sent with a different goal than that which people follow and make each others lives hell. They come with a mission to establish a human society that is free from oppression and suppression, injustice and unfairness, cruelty and animosity, regression and stagnation and poverty of all sorts. It is therefore inconceivable that they themselves will throw their own mission into jeopardy by doing anything stupid.

So in my view it is wrong to accept anything that puts any blame on their person because Allah bear witness to their character. This is not the case for hadith reporters. This is why their authority is very limited as compared to divine messengers.

Well this my point of view because other way round makes no sense to me and if it does to you, please help understand.

regards and all the best.