Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Peace hareem01,
and that is also dealth case to case basis. Here in Bahrain the legal age is considered 21 or 22.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
A 10 year old girl and a 14 year old boy (both white) were having sex on a regular basis a few streets away from where my parents live ... their brother and the boy himself told us about it. The parents were usually out of the home or around their friends houses and they let them become an item anyway ...
For me this is not right ... as there is no accountability for this ... however, a marriage is a holy institution which makes this regulated and proper. People need to wake up and look at what is happening around them.
Once again, I refuse to justify something I do not believe to be true. I don't believe all the supposed companions recollections and statements are correct and accurately transmitted down the chain of narrators over centuries. This one is among ones that is made up stuff that landed in there and for some reason was not among the thousands of other made up stories that were tossed out, but stated as many of the made up things that Hadith compilers did not get rid of for whatever reasons.
The sole purpose if this nonsense is to cast an unfavorable impression. As I said the people usually using Hadith books as source of authority to critique the prophet don't seem to be using the same Hadith books to hail him for other things, which makes the intent very clear.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Not surprised to see such a response. You were talking about climate making some girls 'womanly', but obviously this argument does not hold true if we even allow an infant to be married. The question is not about a 4 or 6 year old getting married (thus the "array of possibility"). Rather it is about the LIMITLESS freedom of age.
You are talking nonsense or conflating two separate issues ... If you are talking about nikkah rather than consumation then yes ... there has been a motion to allow nikkah to take place ... but it is not considered marriage until the girl reaches of age and gives her consent.
The essence of the hadith is what explains this ...
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Her great memory is a strong factor that supports the idea that her childishness had vanished before she got married.
So now you are saying that in some areas, when some children LOOK womanly then they are not only actually women physically but mentally as well.
i am sure somebody must have done some research based on which you are saying this.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Once again, I refuse to justify something I do not believe to be true. I don't believe all the supposed companions recollections and statements are correct and accurately transmitted down the chain of narrators over centuries. This one is among ones that is made up stuff that landed in there and for some reason was not among the thousands of other made up stories that were tossed out, but stated as many of the made up things that Hadith compilers did not get rid of for whatever reasons.
The sole purpose if this nonsense is to cast an unfavorable impression. As I said the people usually using Hadith books as source of authority to critique the prophet don't seem to be using the same Hadith books to hail him for other things, which makes the intent very clear.
Peace X2
After some research I found it to be the case that there is a difference of opinion in the age of Aisha (RA), but after further research it appears that the greater rigour is in the lower age rather than the higher age. But a difference is still there.
We can see the world around us and we can monitor sexual activity taking place outside Islam and we conclude that there significant portions of the world of girls are sexually active - that must ring alarm bells for us. Perhaps modernity has made girls and boys stay younger longer?
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Iām out of this.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
So now you are saying that in some areas, when some children LOOK womanly then they are not only actually women physically but mentally as well. i am sure somebody must have done some research based on which you are saying this.
Does memory of a person have a LOOK? I didn't know that !!! Please explain how the insight of a person's memory being good translates to appearance of the person ...
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
You are talking nonsense or conflating two separate issues ... If you are talking about nikkah rather than consumation then yes ... there has been a motion to allow nikkah to take place ... but it is not considered marriage until the girl reaches of age and gives her consent.
You probably think that I am unaware of this. Well, at least you did acknowledge the limitless age for marriage. Now whether consent is required later or not is questionable. If consent is required later then hazrat Aisha must have given her consent before the marriage was consummated. Where are the traditions for this? At least I am not aware of any such tradition.
You were saying that "array of possibility" for consummation of marriage is given based on various factors. Where is the Hadith which says that we have to be careful to take into account other factors before consummating marriage with a young girl?
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said, "A woman is normally sought as a wife for her wealth, her beauty, her nobility, or her deen (religiousness), so choose a religious woman and you will prosper." (Muslim)
In case a Woman's Family Looking for a Man:
The Prophet, sallallahu alayhe wa sallam, said, "When someone with whose religion and character you are satisfied, asks to marry your daughter, agree to his request. If you do not do so, there will be corruption and great evil on earth." (Tirmithi)
**The following from Muslim
**Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as having said: A woman without a husband (or divorced or a widow) must not be married until she is consulted, and a virgin must not be married until her permission is sought. They asked the Prophet of Allah (may peace be upon him): How her (virgin's) consent can be solicited? He (the Holy Prophet) said: That she keeps silence.
'A'isha (Allah be pleased with her) reported: I asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) about a virgin whose marriage is solemnised by her guardian, whether it was necessary or not to consult her. Allah's Messerger (may peace be upon him) said: Yes, she must be consulted. 'A'isha reported: I told him that she feels shy, whereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Her silence implies her consent.
Ibn 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) reported Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) as saying: A woman without a husband has wore right to her person than her guardian, and a virgin's consent must be asked from her, and her silence implies her consent.
Ibn Abbas (Allah be pleased with them) reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A woman who has been previously married (Thayyib) has more right to her person than her guardian. And a virgin should also be consulted, and her silence implies her consent.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
You probably think that I am unaware of this. Well, at least you did acknowledge the limitless age for marriage. Now whether consent is required later or not is questionable. If consent is required later then hazrat Aisha must have given her consent before the marriage was consummated. Where are the traditions for this? At least I am not aware of any such tradition. You were saying that "array of possibility" for consummation of marriage is given based on various factors. Where is the Hadith which says that we have to be careful to take into account other factors before consummating marriage with a young girl?
Peace khoji,
Let me tell u how the arabs do wedlock. The presence of male (who's getting marriage) needs to be present but it not required for a female to be there. Her father alongwith four witnesses can gives her daughter into wedlock. Later on that female gives her consent in affirmation than "walima" take place.
Now don't ask me what if not.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
By the way ... the word "woman" in Arabic has a direct relation to her state of maturity ...
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Peace X2
After some research I found it to be the case that there is a difference of opinion in the age of Aisha (RA), but after further research it appears that the greater rigour is in the lower age rather than the higher age. But a difference is still there.
I stand by my assertion that greater or lesser rigour, statements compiled generations later and thousands of miles away with influence of people, culture, rulers, interests etc throughout that time period...where politics were rampant, trimean that each and everything has to be seen with great scrutiny and not taken as any sort of fact. This one is among the ones that seem outlandish and there is no way I am going to accept this as a fact and get into a debate of any nature trying to justify it. To me, it did not happen. thats it.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
I stand by my assertion that greater or lesser rigour, statements compiled generations later and thousands of miles away with influence of people, culture, rulers, interests etc throughout that time period...where politics were rampant, trimean that each and everything has to be seen with great scrutiny and not taken as any sort of fact. This one is among the ones that seem outlandish and there is no way I am going to accept this as a fact and get into a debate of any nature trying to justify it. To me, it did not happen. thats it.
Your reluctance is based on your reasoned sense .... and in accordance with that you have decided ... May Allah (SWT) reward you for the honour you have for the holy prophet Muhammad (SAW) ...
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Peace khoji,
Let me tell u how the arabs do wedlock. The presence of male (who's getting marriage) needs to be present but it not required for a female to be there. Her father alongwith four witnesses can gives her daughter into wedlock. Later on that female gives her consent in affirmation than "walima" take place.
Now don't ask me what if not.
Why did you assume I did not know this? BTW, it is not just Arab custom. It happens the same way in Bakistan as well.
The question about traditions relating to this consummation is still there. Where are these traditions? When did prophet ask Hz Abubakr for consummation of marriage?
About Arabic word for women relating to her state of maturity. It's very vague and questionable. One person may think that a girl is mature while other may not think so. The rule you are putting out here is a recipe for disaster.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Peace khoji,
In ur post #55 u said u want to prove that Hazrat Aisha r.a. wasn't 4 or 5 yrs old when she got married. Pls share and let us hear what u have to say :)
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
What difference it makes now what the age of Aisha RAA was, except to follow the norm these days and move on?
Does it matter if she was 9, 12, or older over 1400 years ago?
Some people argue on this, just to find reason to place muslims on defensive foot for no real reason.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Will the question regarding Hazrat Ayesha's (RA) age be asked from us in our graves? Will we for the matter of fact even be asked what sect we followed? I have observed that most of ths muslims love discussing trivial matters while neglecting the main pillars of the religion.
The original question I believe has been answered quite sufficiently in the thread. The reason for most of the under age marriage is dictated by local customs and traditions and is being practiced more commonly in non muslim countries. This child marriage concept in itself is new, and will take some time to settle in.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
Peace khoji,
In ur post #55 u said u want to prove that Hazrat Aisha r.a. wasn't 4 or 5 yrs old when she got married. Pls share and let us hear what u have to say :)
We all know that there are people with varying opinions about her age. I neither have time nor the energy to indulge into such a debate myself.
It should be enough to point out the** difference of opinion** about this matter, and the** consequences **of accepting a child's age to be 9 year at the time of consummation.
Now people like psyah talk about this one case of how hz Aisha was mature and how consummation should occur at various ages depending on achievement of maturity.
But they miss the point that accepting such traditions about her age open up the justification for the terrible incidences of marriages in childhood where girl was not mature in any sense of the word, and such an act damaged her both physically **and **emotionally.
Even if one says that such abuse is un Islamic, I would say that Islam could not have left open this way of abusing girls. Instead, provided that her age really was 9, Islam should have clearly mentioned not to consummate the marriage before she is mature and understand what it means to get married.
Re: Prophet Mohammed nine year old wife
What difference it makes now what the age of Aisha RAA was, except to follow the norm these days and move on?
Does it matter if she was 9, 12, or older over 1400 years ago?
Some people argue on this, just to find reason to place muslims on defensive foot for no real reason.
Prophets are not supposed to follow the norms. they are iconoclasts. they are supposed to change the society.
if they should be following the norms, then they would be like everyone else, right?
this is not a trivial issue. the age at which a woman is mature enough for marriage might differ from culture to culture, but if marriage is supposed to be about procreation ( as most religions claim it should be for) then a 9 years old is too young for it.