Re: Pregnant but not married
^ yes i think u r right !
There are 2 issues over here 1st getting pregnant without being married and second is living or marrying a gora. (if i am not mistaken)
getting pregnant without being married to the father of baby is HARAM . it's ZINA , you know zina is Gunha-e-Kabeera . It a big big sin. No excuse in this world can justify such act. What is the kusoor of that innocent baby , u know how he/she will be taken in society ?
second one - I think it's a personal decision but again one shd not live together without being married / nikahfied. other than that as far as my knowledge about islam is it permissable to marry an ahal-e-kitaab.
...allowed to marry ahl e kitab women, not men.
marrying a gora is not an issue if he is a muslim
getting pregnant without being married is an issue from a religious perspective, no one is arguing with that. however we dont know if there was not some king of religiously acceptable 'marriage' there..
lastly, the discussion ios not just about religious view or how the child will be treated in desi community, but could the child be treated well in general society in US and can a single mother have a good life
Re: Pregnant but not married
Child being treated well or not - can't comment I think it will vary from person to person and from families to families. For me it doesn't matter if the child is legitimate or not , child is innocent and I will treat any kid the way kids shd treated i.e. with love. I can quote an example from my ex-inlaws , a lady in the family didnt have daughter she badly wanted one so she went on with adoption brought a new born baby girl home kept her for a week or two but later when they found out that her parents were not married they called her haram and returned her back (true story!) i was very disturbed when i learned that bcuz for me it's was not the baby girl's fault.
can single mothers have a good life - yes sure they can . Its hard to raise a baby on your own but the joys that motherhood brings outnumbers the problems one faces by being a mother.
I don't know if I can empathize with the lady under discussion here.
I do find the situations sad that she couldn't get married for whatever reasons. In our culture, most girls have trouble getting married if they're not so good looking. But isn't the case similar with guys as well with the only difference being the criterion being shifted from beauty to wealth/job? Yet again, losing control is not justifiable.
I know quite a few good and educated guys having trouble getting married who, for whatever reasons, couldn't get into a high paying career. The situation indeed is sad, and it's rooted into the superficiality that transcends through and through us. Girls become the victims of not being good looking enough, and guys, for not being wealthy enough.
It's very important that we have a paradigm shift here. In another thread in Life 1 recently we were discussing how girls have been rejecting guys over trivial matters like having short hair or how his mother was dressed up and similar crap. Isn't it good for both men and women to lower their bars on such stupid things? I am sure pretty much all of us can find a mate given that we have realistic expectations from life.
Re: Pregnant but not married
good thoughts initiator..I think a lot of the issue is self created by us, as individuals and as a group.
I don't know if I can empathize with the lady under discussion here.
I do find the situations sad that she couldn't get married for whatever reasons. In our culture, most girls have trouble getting married if they're not so good looking. But isn't the case similar with guys as well with the only difference being the criterion being shifted from beauty to wealth/job? Yet again, losing control is not justifiable.
I know quite a few good and educated guys having trouble getting married who, for whatever reasons, couldn't get into a high paying career. The situation indeed is sad, and it's rooted into the superficiality that transcends through and through us. Girls become the victims of not being good looking enough, and guys, for not being wealthy enough.
It's very important that we have a paradigm shift here. In another thread in Life 1 recently we were discussing how girls have been rejecting guys over trivial matters like having short hair or how his mother was dressed up and similar crap. Isn't it good for both men and women to lower their bars on such stupid things? I am sure pretty much all of us can find a mate given that we have realistic expectations from life.
its not always about getting marrying. :) its about being rebellion.
just put yourself in a situation where you have six seven sibs, and you the middle one. there are load more girls in your father has a very low income and he is also very bossy.
one day some random guy tells you about your beauty and you start realizing that there is at least one person in this entire universe who notices you.
as one says "Ambition and conquest, without contribution, is without significance." we all want to make a history, and we all desire to feel our presence and to get ourselves noticed.
Re: Pregnant but not married
Ajuba ka namuna = this thread
its not always about getting marrying. :) its about being rebellion.
just put yourself in a situation where you have six seven sibs, and you the middle one. there are load more girls in your father has a very low income and he is also very bossy. one day some random guy tells you about your beauty and you start realizing that there is at least one person in this entire universe who notices you.
as one says "Ambition and conquest, without contribution, is without significance." we all want to make a history, and we all desire to feel our presence and to get ourselves noticed.
and therin lies the problem....guys will say anything to err "trap" a girl....it would be stupid of a girl to fall for this age old trick... do not give yourself to someone just cuz they say a few nice words...give yourself to someone cuz they think you're good enough to get married to and even then only after you are married to them...odd how this random guy finds her beautiful gets her preggers and then leaves her...guess she was not so beautiful after the damn one night stand huh
Re: Pregnant but not married
The problem here is that Desis over-hype sex. You guys REALLY need to get over it. Adam and Eve did it and I, for one, wasn't at their Barat. Look how well that turned out :)
The problem here wasn't about the Adultry, it was more about bringing a child out of Wedlock.
IF it was an accident, then oops. If it was on purose, then oops. Its embarassing no matter which side the morality coin falls, however public lashings being marched out by imperfect humans is kinda funny.
The problem here is that Desis over-hype sex. You guys REALLY need to get over it. Adam and Eve did it and I, for one, wasn't at their Barat. Look how well that turned out :)
The problem here wasn't about the Adultry, it was more about bringing a child out of Wedlock.
IF it was an accident, then oops. If it was on purose, then oops. Its embarassing no matter which side the morality coin falls, however public lashings being marched out by imperfect humans is kinda funny.
Well done, Someone please answer that? What happend there? Adams punishment was getting sent to this world.
Great.
Well, for the record she wasn't married or anything when she got pregnant. some interesting comments here. I don't know her personally but I think she is quite settled financially so that won'y be an issue.
Re: Pregnant but not married
If she's financially settled, Then thats fine. At 30 years old i wud expect one to be settled"!!!!!
Re: Pregnant but not married
Amazing. Guys in our community commit Zina all the time and no one makes such a hangama over it.
Re: Pregnant but not married
^Bcoz they dont get pregnant
Re: Pregnant but not married
^ Thought i'd inform you, guys cant get pregnant.
Re: Pregnant but not married
No matter how you add it, if pregnancy is the result of sleeping willingly with someone for fulfill the wish or whatever crap, it’s WRONG. This cannot be justified whatsoever. Parents were not doing enough for her to get married, she loved babies etc are all lame excuses. If parents were not doing enough, they will be responsible for their deeds on the Day of Judgment and she will be answerable to what she did. If parents were not doing enough and she had courage to sleep with someone, she should have just got married with someone she finds.
Believe me every single criminal/sinner has a readily available reason for the act oh and by the way, "desi guys sleep around and get away with it why not girl" is the lame(ist) reason to justify this. People do get off cleanly even after murders, wana try that too?
It just sends chilling waves in my body reading that some people are trying to justify the act.
She slept with him. they had some kind of brief relationship but it didn't work out. PCG, this is exactly my viewpoint. Our society creates this situation, leaving behind a surplus of girls, who have probably done everything by the book and been good girls. But then they get to their 30s and realise that being good is not going to get them a decent guy and they want to move on with their lives. Whether that's by hooking up with a non-desi or having a child. And to whoever who said well, if she can get pregnant then why can't she find someone by herself to marry. Well, I'm sure that would have been her ideal scenario but life doesn't always work out how we want it to.
So she slept with him and this still means to you she's a good girl and this is what the book tells the girls? According to you. So if the society does make mistakes, it means you can make mistakes, too? What a mind, what a thinking! Do the mistakes if you want, because I'm not someone nosing around in your life, but I will put my nose in your way of thinking which is very sick! Neither the Jewish, Christian nor the Islamic Book teaches to have sex before marriage and as a result having a 'najaiz' kid. If you wanna do mistakes, don't blame it on the society, because then there is no difference between you and them.
PCG:
After watching and reading your Threads and the way you think about Men in general I can say with 100 % assurance that it's your fault you're not married with 27 and I think it will stay like that what I don't hope!
Your way of thinking is strange. I don't know what you are and what ya want. Recently you said you wanna get laid in a halal way (In The New Year Resolution Thread). Now you say, you still would want a kid if you don't get hooked up the halal way! What are you playing infront of us. Is this the definition of Islam or say how you see it?
That is what you said in the "Would you marry a Guy with a long Beard" **Thread. **You don't really have to something with Islam. No offense intented. Just presenting you the facts. If you admit it or not, choice is yours.
She slept with him. they had some kind of brief relationship but it didn't work out. PCG, this is exactly my viewpoint. Our society creates this situation, leaving behind a surplus of girls, who have probably done everything by the book and been good girls. *But then they get to their 30s and realise that being good is not going to get them a decent guy and they want to move on with their lives. Whether that's by hooking up with a non-desi or having a child. * And to whoever who said well, if she can get pregnant then why can't she find someone by herself to marry. Well, I'm sure that would have been her ideal scenario but life doesn't always work out how we want it to.
Can this also be a pre-text for a guy robbing bank after trying hard all of his life to earn good money? A guy who is educated, honest but finally realizing that honesty and education is not going to get him a decent life. Can he decide to rob a bank and give this reason in court of law? Please shed some light .....
oh and this guy's circumstances are exactly the same as this girl's. material society is the main hurdle for him.
Re: Pregnant but not married
All I'm saying is I'd like to see men get roasted more often for these sorts of things and they don't. Not even 1% the way girls do. You can't look at a person's sins without taking into context the circumstances. We get vocal when it gets to this point but what are we doing to prevent these problems?
Raising our boys to be unfit husbands and discriminate against perfectly eligible educated girls raised abroad?
We have pushed her to this level of desperation.
Her sin is between her and God. I don't mudsling at other people when they are majboor or make mistakes and that's the Islamic way, if you want to learn anything about Islam.
men do get roasted for these things too only problem is that its hard to catch men on this for obvious reasons. girls simply cant hide this although I agree that our society tends to look more harshly at women than men for this sin and we have to collectively do something about it. BTW, most of the time these type of news/gossips roamed around by the help of women with their judgmental comments.
btw, we can surly discuss Islam if you want to but I don't count sleeping with bf/gf and doing the ultimate sin as a "mistake". There are many warning signs before the ultimate sin that you have to ignore intentionally to do this what you call a "mistake". Its not that you met someone at park and decided to sleep with them right then and there...
All I'm saying is I'd like to see men get roasted more often for these sorts of things and they don't. Not even 1% the way girls do. You can't look at a person's sins without taking into context the circumstances. We get vocal when it gets to this point but what are we doing to prevent these problems?
Raising our boys to be unfit husbands and discriminate against perfectly eligible educated girls raised abroad?
We have pushed her to this level of desperation.
Her sin is between her and God. I don't mudsling at other people when they are majboor or make mistakes and that's the Islamic way, if you want to learn anything about Islam.