Praying on dargahs & shrines

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Can you provide a source where its said that waseela se maanga is not jaiz? If you want me to disagree then provide a source, only saying that its not jaiz is not enough ... & between if you want a source then here it is ....

Imam Bukhari writes that there was a famine during the Khilafah of Umar, (Allah be pleased with him), who supplicated to Allah by presenting the Waseela of the uncle of the Messenger of Allah, Abbas, May Allah be well pleased with him. He prayed to Allah by saying: 'O Allah, we used to supplicate to you with the Waseela of the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) and you would bestow us with rain. Now we present You the Waseela of (Abbas Allah be well pleased with him), the uncle of the Prophet So please grant us rain.'
[Bukhari in Baab-ul-Istisqaa]

& don't say that its shirk beacuse its not. People just call every other thing shirk just like that which is not right. Shirk means if you worship or ask from someone else other than ALLAH & making a waseelah is not at all shirk. In waseela, we are asking from ALLAH but with their waseela, its not like that you are asking that person to grant you this & that wish*(naaozobillah).*

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Peace aqeel123,

edited Please don't derail thread by bringing memoir of Prophet PBUH or His PBUH Companion r.a., into this because we are not talking about them.

Let's the threads flow as it is going on.

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Peace 5amra,

I read that hadith and there is no doubt about its authentication. Importance is that 'Uncle' was alive when asked for waseela. In this thread we are talking about deceased. Dargah and shiren pr ja kr maangna.

Moreover, there are many similar hadith and further clarification, that will be discussed later on.

Praying on dargahs & shrines

With reference to Imran khan "jumping on the bandwagon" - he follows Sufism anyway do has always held the view that visiting shrines is permissible

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Peace tanya5150,

I didn’t know that. :hat: for sharing with us :slight_smile:

Don't believe in such things at all! Pray only directly to Allah

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Brother, what I mentioned is that, Allah does not help in this material world directly, rather he helps through (Waseela) of someone or something. On the other hand, if Allah wants to (as I mentioned in reply to your post), Allah can help directly as what he did when dealing with Musa (AS).

What I wrote is Islamic belief, but if you feel that what I mentioned is not true, than to refute my claim, instead of asking me to justify my claim, I would prefer if you show me instances where Allah helped people in this material world directly, without intermediaries (be that intermediaries other human, angels, or material things like medicine, iron or whatever).

Anyhow, even though what I claimed is obvious (Islamic belief), I can show you many ayahs in Quran where Allah mentioned that Allah help and at all places it is indirectly (through intermediaries). Actually, at places Allah even asked people to help Allah in fulfilling the cause of Allah (as such help is test of Allah).

3:124: Remember thou saidst to the Faithful: "Is it not enough for you that Allah should help you with three thousand angels (Specially) sent down?

In above ayah, Allah helped prophet through angels … not directly.

4:75: And why should ye not fight in the cause of Allah and for those who, being weak are ill-treated (and oppressed)?- Men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town, whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from thee one who will protect; and raise for us from thee one who will help!”

In above ayah, Allah asks people to help Allah by fighting in the cause of Allah and fighting for those who are weak and oppressed.

Actually, in above ayah Allah also mentions that those who are oppressed, they ask Allah to raise people who could give them protection and help. One can clearly see that oppressed believers do not say that Allah come and help us … rather they say that raise people (create waseela) who could help and protect us.

7:156: “Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them. So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper.”

In above ayah, Allah is asking people to honour, help, and follow Prophet SAW).

9:14: Fight them; Allah will punish them by your hands and will disgrace them and give you victory over them and satisfy the breasts of a believing people

In above ayah, Allah is saying that he would punish and disgrace unbelievers through (Waseela) hands of believers. (Not directly)

22:40: (They are) those who have been expelled from their homes in defiance of right,- (for no cause) except that they say, “our Lord is Allah”. Did not Allah check one set of people by means of another, there would surely have been pulled down monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, in which the name of Allah is commemorated in abundant measure. Allah will certainly aid those who aid his (cause);- for verily Allah is full of Strength, Exalted in Might, (able to enforce His Will).

In above ayah, Allah clearly mentions that Allah check one set of people by means (Waseela) of another … and that if there would not have been means (Waseela) than monasteries, churches, synagogues and mosques … wherever people take name and remember of Allah would have got pulled down. Again, Allah says that Allah would help those who would help Allah (obviously Allah do not need help from anyone, but it is in this material world where Allah do not get involved directly, his creation can help Allah by becoming waseela).

47:7: O ye who believe! If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly.

In above ayah, Allah is asking his creation to help him.

57:25 We sent aforetime our messengers with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the Balance (of Right and Wrong), that men may stand forth in justice; and We sent down Iron, in which is (material for) mighty war, as well as many benefits for mankind, that Allah may test who it is that will help, Unseen, Him and His messengers: For Allah is Full of Strength, Exalted in Might (and able to enforce His Will).

Here also … in Above ayah, Allah is mentioning means (Waseelah) Allah created to guide and help people (clear signs, books that teach right and wrong, iron for war, etc) so that people can get tested by becoming waseela (help in the cause of Allah) for Allah and his messengers.

Well, I mentioned few of many ayahs from Quran that shows when Allah wants to help anyone, he uses waseelah and do not help directly. Actually, Allah himself asks people to become his waseelah (intermediaries) as people who become waseelah of Allah become aid (Help) of Allah.

Thus, I have shown from Quran places where it is mentioned that Allah uses intermediaries (be they men, angels, material, or whatever) to help prophets, needy and oppressed … even to establish Islam and protect places where Allah is remembered.

[Note: I have mentioned the belief in Islam, but then that is not true about Hinduism, where their god (Vishnu) and goddess (Parvati) have habit of coming to this world and help people directly by providing them good governance and fighting evil harming them. Same is true in Greek mythology. As things are turning up, it seems such belief must be entering Islam and with time, so-called Muslims would also concoct stories of God coming to this material world and helping oppressed and needy directly]

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Ruh is what we are. Nafs is connection of Ruh with body (part of this world). Body is tool that Nafs uses to connect with material world. When Nafs dies, Ruh loses contact with body.

All people have intellect, values, and some knowledge imbedded in theminherently (given to them by Allah from birth). We use that given intelligence,values and knowledge, to know people close to Allah. It is same with Kuffars,that they are expected to use intellect, values and knowledge that is imbeddedin them to know Prophets (AS) and follow them.

Please read my last post on the subject.

Read carefully and think with open mind. I am sure it would make sense.:slight_smile:

Why nauzo-billah? What you want to say? Do you mean, if one believes thatAllah can give abilities and power to whoever Allah wills (be they dead or alive), than it is believing on other than Allah? What you mean, is it Islamic beliefthat Allah cannot give abilities and power to whoever he wills?

Why Astagfarullah? Is it not true that it is only Muslim who make dargah and have belief to go to Dargah and that Kuffars do not even make Dargah? Is it not true that first Dargah Muslim built is Dargah where Prophet (SAW) is buried?

What do you want to say by Astagfarullah … is that, what Muslim do and believe to you is so horrendous that Muslims should not do and believe … and start believing what kuffar do and believe, that is, not to have dargah and not to visit dargah?

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Intercession and means (Waseela) from Quran:

5:35: O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper

Seek the means of approach unto Allah … and it is this mean of approach that is called Waseelah.

4:64: We sent not a messenger, but to be obeyed, in accordance with the will of Allah. If they had only, when they were unjust to themselves, come unto thee and asked Allah’s forgiveness, and the Messenger had asked forgiveness for them, they would have found Allah indeed Oft-returning, Most Merciful.

In above ayah, Allah is telling Muslims that even whey they want to ask forgiveness from Allah, they should make Prophet (SAW) their waseelah … that is, ask Prophet (SAW) to ask Allah for their forgiveness and that if Prophet (SAW) would ask for their forgiveness (become waseelah), Allah will forgive.

Making Waseelah of those who passed away [Prophet (SAW) and all those people who we might think are close to Allah] is to do with belief regarding death. Islamic belief is that Ruh do not die (and that is why we believe on Azaab in Qabar, and so on) … whereas belief of most non-Muslims is that Ruh dies … so they could not qualify as waseelah.

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Hello Friends...

Let me ease your conscienceness... I will only say 1 thing if your mind accepts it...

Hazrat Muhammed S.A.W. prayed to ALLAH for His entire life of Prophecy...(After becoming a muslim)...

and He never use to say any waseela of any human etc etc... He asked us to do Uswaye-Hasna for our entire life...

There is nothing after the Last Ayah/Khutba Of Islam

===> "Ay Muhammed HAMNE Islam ko aaj mukammal ker diya Aur Islam ko bator deen tumhare liye pasand kiya..."

===> "Kisi gora ko kalay per aur kisi kalay ko gore per... kisi arbi ko ajmi per aur kisi ajmi ko arbi per.. aur naa hi kisi goray ko kaale per aur kisi kalay ko goray per bartari hasil nahi"

and I think here's the story ends... nothing came after that and even in Quran nothing is written about any other people to believe on...


and simply.. just ask ur self.. When Hazrat Muhammad S.A.W. prayed to ALLAH Himself then who are we to think about waseela of any Human etc etc ??

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

^^^ Quran is for all time, still in above post you are denying what is in Quran.

5:35: O ye who believe! Do your duty to Allah, seek the means of approach unto Him, and strive with might and main in his cause: that ye may prosper

As for Prophet (SAW), he was Muslim from birth as all prophets are born Prophet and born Muslim.

As for Prophet (SAW) having Waseelah, obviously he had. Throughout, Prophet (SAW) communication with Allah was through Waseelah of Jabreel (AS). Almost every message Prophet (SAW) received from Allah was through Waseelah of Jabreel (AS).

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Peace Saleem,

:jazak: for your providing detailed answer with reference. Well, your posts are very long and there are many points which I would like to dicuss but I lose interest if posts are very long b’coz for me it won’t be possible to cover all aspect and in my view such discussion wouldn’t lead us or me anywhere. So if you don’t mind and would like to discuss then please put forward at least one point each a time (with / without reference) enabling me to discuss it with you in detail.

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

^ Sir... Islam started with the first Ayyat...

"IQRA BISMI RABBI KALLAZI KHALAQ"

& we all know Hazrat Muhammed S.A.W. was frightened and run back to His Home...

Islam is a word for Deen...

I think you might mixing things... All prophets were Muslim ?? You mean they know about Quran ?? or you can Name them True Believers of ALLAH.. coz ISLAM ka naam hi nahi tha Hazrat Muhammed S.A.W. se pehle tak...

and I suggest people must Read Surah IQRA with Salees more than the Tarjuma...

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

No… this looks silly to me too…

jab ruh qabz ker li jaati hai to kya pata kahan gai wo ?? Ghayab ka Ilam sirf ALLAH TAALA ki zaat ko hai… aur Parwardigaar ne sirf utne hi secrets humse share kiyeey hein jitne PAAK ZAAT wale ko behtar lage…

even this is in Quraan-e-Paak…

“HUM JIS KO JITNA CHAHTE HEIN (QALM) SE ZARIYEEY ILM ATAA KERTE HEIN”

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Is It Better To Read Quran-e-Paak with salees takay Hum Sabko Samajh aa sake Deen-e-Islaam kya hai...

Asal baat ye hai keh Dua Sirf PARWARDIGAAR se hai... USSI ne sab ka sila dena hai... and dusri baat jab KHUDA TAALA ki marzi se zindagi guzareinge to phir sirf aik hi Dua labon se bayaan hogi... aur wo hai ASTAGH-FAAR...

Duniya to faani hai... ye cheezein yahin reh jani hein.... aqlay pal ka kisi ko maloom nahi... kisi ko bhi pata nahi... ruh ki baat kerte hein to qabz hote waqt kitni takleef hoti hai ye sirf ALLAH PAAK jante hein ya marne wala... QURAN me hai...

"HAR CHEEZ NE MOUT KA MAZA CHAKHNA HAI"

iska kya matlab hai ?? and kyun hum log nahi samajhte...

kisi achay buzurg ke paas jayein to wo salaah dete hein KHUDA se mango...

kyunke jab HAZRAT MUHAMMED S.A.W. jesi hasti ne PAAK KHUDA se manga to hum kis khait ki mooli hein ??

WE ALL MUST HAVE A DIRECT CONNECTION TO ALLAH...

kyunke agar aapne apni Maa se kuch mangna hota hai to behan bhaiyoon ke nahi kehte ke unko kaho de dein...

agar narazgi bhi ho tab bhi khud mangoge warna kuch nahi milega... its common sense... QURAN PARHO sab samajh aajayega :)

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

HAVE A STRONG FAITH ON ALLAH... WOHI bakhshnay wala hai RAHEEM HAI... kisi ke waseelay se mangne se pehle ye bta do kya aapko pata hai ke jis se mang rahe ho uski bakhshish ho chuki ???

agar aapko pata chal chuka hai to plz mujhe bhi bta dein kon kon bakhsha gaya ?? ye IK sahib jiske mizaar pe gaye hein unka kisi ko maloom hai ??

plz share this info with me... plzzzzzz

agar nahi pata... to chup kerke apni khud ki agli zindagi ke liye ALLAH PAAK se Dua mango aur kasrat se parho "ASTAGHFIRULLAH"

thats it from my side... May ALLAH Bles Us All.. (Aameen)

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Jahalat ki inetha hai ....

*مَا كَانَ إِبْرَاهِيمُ يَهُودِيًّا وَلَا نَصْرَانِيًّا وَلَٰكِنْ كَانَ حَنِيفًا *مُسْلِمًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

[Shakir 3:67] Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
**
Pickthal 3:67]** Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
**
[Yusufali 3:67]** **Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.

(Hazrat Yusuf a.s)

رَبِّ قَدْ آتَيْتَنِي مِنَ الْمُلْكِ وَعَلَّمْتَنِي مِنْ تَأْوِيلِ الْأَحَادِيثِ ۚ فَاطِرَ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالْأَرْضِ أَنْتَ وَلِيِّي فِي الدُّنْيَا وَالْآخِرَةِ ۖ تَوَفَّنِي مُسْلِمًا وَأَلْحِقْنِي بِالصَّالِحِينَ

[Pickthal 12:101] O my Lord! Thou hast given me (something) of sovereignty and hast taught me (something) of the interpretation of events - Creator of the heavens and the earth! Thou art my Protecting Guardian in the world and the Hereafter. Make me to die muslim (unto Thee), and join me to the righteous.

Hazrat Iesa a.s (Jesus )

فَلَمَّا أَحَسَّ عِيسَىٰ مِنْهُمُ الْكُفْرَ قَالَ مَنْ أَنْصَارِي إِلَى اللَّهِ ۖ قَالَ الْحَوَارِيُّونَ نَحْنُ أَنْصَارُ اللَّهِ آمَنَّا بِاللَّهِ وَاشْهَدْ بِأَنَّا*** مُسْلِمُونَ

[Shakir 3:52]* But when Isa perceived unbelief on their part, he said Who will be my helpers in Allah's way? The disciples said: We are helpers (in the way) of Allah: We believe in Allah and bear witness that we are submitting ones.
[Pickthal 3:52] But when Jesus became conscious of their disbelief, he cried: Who will be my helpers in the cause of Allah? The disciples said: We will be Allah's helpers. We believe in Allah, and bear thou witness that we have surrendered (unto Him).
[Yusufali 3:52] When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah?" Said the disciples: "We are Allah's helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

^ Firstly you must hold on your words before saying anything…

and is it written in Quran or you copied it from some where else ??

and Secondly.. Mr. Aqeel aapko post dehaan se parhni chahiyeey mene likha kya hai… jab matlab samajh naa aye to poch lete hein apni baat kehne se pehle… I told you Islam aur Musalman just words hein.. aapko samajh nahi aai post me se kya ?? :faizy:

and ye jo aapne lines share ki hein kahan se laa rahe hein ?? Quran me itni specific baat :@: and yahan pe Muslimoona ka matlab hai “Ay Emaan Walo”

but do share ke aapne kahan se li… and its a family forum.. and Hamein apni baat shaistagi se kerni chahiyeey takay agla insaan apki respect ker sake… Hazrat Muhammed S.A.W. ne bhi hamein yahi sikhaya hai, naa keh bad-qalami krna..

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

Aur han.. I guess Quraan-e-Paak me ziada tar *"Ay Emaan Walo" *lafz istamaal hua hai naa-keh musalmaan...

aur definitely Sab Paighambar Emaan walay thay tab hi unko mana jata hai,,, tabhi hum MUSALMAN hein ke unper emaan layein.. aur QURAAN jo ke sabse behtar kitaab moujood hai is Duniya me jis ka WRITER khud ALLAH PAAK hai.. bas samajhne ki zarurat hai....so usme se agar kuch hai to plz share karein aap...

plz acknowledge :)

Re: Praying on dargahs & shrines

well I think keh ye Versus hein.. but to cap up there was no Islam... I told you this a word for A TRUE BELIEVE on ALLAH...

and our point is Do We Have To Pray On Dargah And Shrines...

but I guess we all are slipping from it.. :)