POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Ohio Guy, its not unusal for people to react in this way, to which ever religion they belong to.

I don't need to remind you what catholics have done to pro-abortion activists or how have they reacted to 'ungodly' material in school literature in US.

Christianity is by no means any more peaceful than any other religion on the face of earth. Christianity has advocated violence as much as any other religion has in the name of God. The old testament is full of it.

Chritians oft represent christ as the lamb of God and his non-violent approach as the true nature of christianity, but, what options did christ had at that time? A dozen disciples?

But as we hear from christians of the second coming of Jesus te true colour of christianity emerges. The violent, powerful, glory seeking nature of God becomes apparent once again as it was in old testament.

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[size=2]Revelation 19:11-16: "I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. 'He will rule them with an iron scepter.' He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written: KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS."

[/QUOTE]

[/size]

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

What i think of Parliament is clear to those who have read my remarks in poltics section.

I just asked a simple question, what was in that speech that we did not understand?

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

What are you smoking junior? It is not unusual to call for the death of the head of a religion with a Billion followers? Throwing fire bombs at churches?

You have become desensitized to this crap. It is highly unusual for a cleric from some religion to call for murdering the Pope.

Idiot.

Now tell me about the Religion of Peace?

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Yes Islam is a VIOLENT religion.

The Spanish inquisition, burning people at the stake because they were witches, the crusades all is a eye wash..
Islam was spread by the sword that’s why after ruling Spain and India for hundreds of years the Muslims are a miniscule minority in these countries….

And Yeah in this century all the terror strikes are done by the “Moslem’s”…We remember the names of all the “Stein’s” and “Adams” who innocently lost their lives but we don’t remember “Muhammad Musa” age 2 who lost his life in his fathers lap trying to dodge Israelis bullets in Gaza.

My foot to your hypocrisy and Muslims please don’t come up with this apologetic attitude and speeches don’t bring more disgrace to what you all are already suffering.

Cheers.

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Re: Pope needs Dope Test


Well guess what, it can't be said anymore now.

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Are you too thick to understand that a few clerics do not behave as they shud? Catholics have been inciting violence against pro-abortion groups and against liberals.

I have described for u the peace of christianity.

Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. 'He will rule them with an iron scepter

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Muslims seem to be over reacting here... It only makes Muslims look that much more worse... The cartoons were bad enough.
The pope actually said he was QUOTING a Byzanitine emperor and that opinion was not his own. So before the Pak govt, which is first to defend Islam but yet cant defend the rights of raped women starts passing resolutions, they should understand the popes speech in its entirity.

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

What the hell you mean when you say “overreacting”, Can any of your head mullah say in any blahdy mosque around the Muslim world that “Christianity is an evil and inhumane religion (even if he quotes someone else)” which christianity has been at certain times???

Yes If your mullah says he is a Blahdy extremist, a terrorist, but if pope quotes this its OK…
Shame on You

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD


thank you!
i'm happy to read one pakistani undersanding things right!
much appreciated!

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Well the Byzantine Empire was under attack by the mighty Islamic empire. Not surprising he had dim view of Islam. Let the dogs bark...

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Yup your green card is on the way…Well Done!!!

:slight_smile:

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Don't any Muslims here see the rich irony in the violent, enraged response of Muslims to the Pope's speech?

The modus ope***** within Islam seems to be "kill those who disagree with us". Sorry, this isn't the 15th century any more, that kind of attitude is not going to be accepted by rational people living in the free world.

Do Muslims really think that the atrocious behaviour of extremists and fundamentalists is just going to be accepted by the world's leaders?

I say, bravo to the Pope for having the courage to state the truth - aware of the fact that by so doing he is risking his own life (which ironically proves the TRUTH of his words).

Front up, muslim cowards, face up to the failings of your faith. In the same way that the Catholic church has demonstrated it´s maturity by acknowledging the failures and excesses of the past e.g. the inquisition - though we're talking hundreds of years ago now. This is the 21st century, for God's sake.

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

I have no idea why "modus o-p-e-r-a-n-d-i" was censored in my last post.

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Regarding the ¨Iconoclast v Ohioguy¨ exchanges - yup, I reckon Iconoclast is not so much smoking as mainlining something really bad there.

Let's dose him with a bit of reason: in the modern world, the here-and-now, Islamic fundamentalists FREQUENTLY commit atrocious crimes in the name of their religion; that's undeniable. Fatwas are issued, Jihads are embarked upon, buses are bombed, assassinations are committed, people are forcibly converted, women are oppressed. All these things are happening NOW, not in some distant past. To bring up isolated incidents of extremism - such as the abortion clinic bombings - as a defense is pointless, in so doing you're not answering any of the criticisms. Rational people living in the free world are focussing on Islam because this behaviour is becoming typical within Islam - that doesn't mean that we don't condemn extremism when it occurs outside of Islam, of course we do! That still doesn't answer the questions being asked of Islamists - why does Islam legitimate violence via Fatwas and Jihad? Why does Islam oppress women? Why do Muslim fundamentalists regularly murder innocent women and children? We're talking today, in the here-and-now, in the 21st century - your religion encourages/supports/promotes the use of violence - is that a faith to be proud of?

Why not try thinking for yourself instead of parrotting the crap you've been taught? You have a mind of your own.

Answer the questions instead of trying to come up with counter-allegations -
otherwise just shut up, because your responses are worthless.

chai me ...
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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Lest we let the discussion get distracted, the last abortion clinic bombing was in 1984, when there were 18 bombings. That is about a week of sectarian violence in Iraq. The last bomb threat on an abortion clinic was a decade ago in 1996. Keep throwing crap against the wall, maybe it will stick.

But the violence erupting within the Islamic world is unprescidented. There is no comparable destruction outside of the genocide of Rwanda. Violence is rationalized everyday, as thousands die each month, the majority Muslims themselves.

This is not about attacking Islam. It is not about religion. It is not about going to your neighborhood Mosque. It is about a growing violent minority who use Islam to rationalize their anger. No one is blaming Islam. No one is blaming Muslims. Muslims are dishonoring Islam.

But the "Moderate Muslims" who take offense here are weak and powerless. They are being shouted down by the gun-toting, RPG carrying people who are killing dozens in Iraq because of the Mosque they attend.

Who cares what the Pope says! The Pope has not killed a single Muslim. Be offended at the killers among you who are killing thousands upon thousands a month. The Pope is the least of your worries. You are far more likely to be killed by a brother with a Russian or Chinese weapon than a Catholic or a Jew.

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Violence is happening no doubt, but did you forget the crucial part that the US has played in the violence in Iraq and Afghanistan?

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Afghanistan has been at war for 30 years. No American had set foot in Afghanistan in anger during that time. We may have fanned the flames against the Soviets, but we were not there. Saddam killed hundreds of thousands. He committed genocide on the Iraqi people. He would have done that again. Or his sons would have.

Our "crucial part"? Did we invent or encourage sectarian violence? I think this was dreamed up well out of sight of any American.

Violence is happening no doubt.

By whose hand?

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Difference between you and us:

Me:
I hereby pronounce that cleric to be a nutcase. Let him rot.

Now your turn. Denounce the pope, and denounce the violence your nation is inflecting on others.

It's one thing to call for a person's death, it's just sick to actually kill other people (or support the murder of others) and then rationalize it.

But yes, you being the king of pacifists are welcome to question Islam and if it is a "religion of peace". As if Christianity ever was...

Is there any end to this duplicity, or do you actually put stock in what you say?

As I said, the Pope and you can sing about peace all you want, but neither are true pacifists. Just ware theory...indeed...

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Sure. What is also undeniable is that Western states are spreading their own idoelogy at the barrel of the gun, and the Pope and his ilk invoke the Just War doctorine (at least in the case of a broder war on 'terror', not on Iraq in the case of the Pope) to support the spread of Western values in such a manner.

Healer, heal thyself....ring a bell?

"All these things are happening NOW, not in some distant past. To bring up isolated incidents of extremism:"

Nations are being invaded, civilians massacred and raped, random people being detained and tortured...NOW, not then.

[quote]

Rational people living in the free world are focussing on Islam because this behaviour is becoming typical within Islam

[/quote]

If these "rational" people, who at least in America and the UK are supporting a broader war effort which is quite violent, considers these acts to be "typical" of Islam, even though they are perpetrated by thousands with supports of probably a similar amount - moral support not amounting to more than a hill of beans (sure, OBL is popular...only because he's convinced people of a new Crusade)...then I think these "rational" people really shouldn't be considered all too rational.

"That still doesn't answer the questions being asked of Islamists - why does Islam legitimate violence via Fatwas and Jihad?"

Quesiton: is Jihad EVER justified? Even in self-defence? Never mind the acts of individual insurgents...let us compare to an act of congress declaring war on a nation based on FALSE pretexts...

[quote]

Why does Islam oppress women? Why do Muslim fundamentalists regularly murder innocent women and children?

[/quote]

Pot calling kettle black. Your troops are doing the same. No, I don't buy this collateral damage crap.

Not to mention slanderous...joe hick from Alabama may be an ignorant twit, but he's not really out there killing people...so Abdul fundo may be all fire and brimstone, but his being a fundementalist doesn't make him complicit, now does it?

[quote]

We're talking today, in the here-and-now, in the 21st century - your religion encourages/supports/promotes the use of violence - is that a faith to be proud of?

[/quote]

Okay. Let's all secularize, and adopt the Western way of life...oh oh, that too encourages/supports/promotes the use of violence! Drat. There's just no winning, is there?

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Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Not that I’m preaching anyone, but I would like to have all GS members to listen and see this video of the Friday Sermon by Hazrat Mirza Masroor Ahmad - Supreme Head of Ahmadiyya Muslim COmmunity. He goes one by one to answer all of the sickness came out of Pope’s mouth, disregard he is quoting someone.

http://www.alislam.org/archives/2006...FS091506UR.wmv
Also visit www.alislam.org to read the article of Jehad.

Again, does not matter, if you call your self a Suni, Shia, Wahabi or Ahmadi - It is our combined duty to the Holy Prophet (PBUH) and Islam to defend it and bring forth the meaning and teachings of true Islam.

I am hoping that you view this video and other material with open mind.