Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Ohioguy & Co.. where are you guys jumping along? Discussion was supposed to be on the Pope and his comments, and you guys are talking about kidnap victims etc.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
mujhay to shuru se pata tha ke yeh neya pope (pichlay pope ke faut honay ke baad) zaroor koiee yuckiaan kare ga. laanti jahil
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
In any case, I find the following excerpt from “The Independent” newspaper most cohesive in understanding the furore over Pope’s comments. Click on the link to read the full article.
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The rage was sparked by a few brief lines buried deep within a long and closely reasoned address given by the German Pope to the University of Regensburg in Germany, where he had once been a professor. Benedict’s lecture was devoted to the question of the “reasonableness” of Christian faith in an age when most people believe that rationality means science and implicitly excludes religious belief.
Benedict insisted that rationality was the Greek contribution to Christianity and was intrinsic to it. As an illustration he quoted what “the erudite Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus” told an educated Persian about reasonableness and religion.
The 14th-century emperor said, as Benedict put it, that “spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul”. Continuing his quote, the Pope said: “‘God is not pleased by blood… Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence or threats.’”
If Benedict had restricted himself to those words, it is likely his speech would have passed off with few adverse comments. But instead he included the far harsher words the emperor had spoken immediately before: “‘Show me just what Mohamed brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’”
In one dense and scholarly paragraph, the Pope thereby succeeded in combining the ideas that Islam is evil and inhuman, that it converts (or at least converted) by the sword and that doing so was proof of its unreasonableness as a religion and the irrationality of its believers.
The lecture continued for another four-and-a-half pages, but nowhere did the Pope try to distance himself from Manuel’s remarks or say the emperor was wrong. On the contrary, the emperor was described as a “Byzantine shaped by Greek philosophy” who was “erudite” about both religions.
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The bolded parts will help understand why muslims are not taking this as just an innocent quote where the Pope is just repeting what someone else had said. This Pope is a ghunna, and he is not as simple as some of you think.
ps. And considering that Vatican is inside Italy, may I suggest that this time our professional protest burners should look to Pizza Huts, and KFC’s be spared. Mucho Gracias!!!
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Che
blowing up innocent civilians in buses, killing innocent school children, shooting at people at mosques.
hows that for starters.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
okay OG we get your point we give up...
you got us. man you are too good for us to refute..
we are genetically violent, and we just want to kill anyone who is not like us.
game over guys..he got us. end of all discussions on religion...it was good while it lasted but he got us man.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Looking at catholic priests and their hobbies, I would argue that there were certain other things that were greek contribution as well 
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
So now you get all passive-aggressive, great, like being married on line.
Now, having read the entire speech by the Pope, I don’t believe that he intended to offend, and the comments that are being excerpted are way out of context. I certainly don’t think he will apologize, nor should he. Nor am I suprised that the “Arab Street” will get whipped into a lather after Friday prayer. This response seemed to work after the cartoon episode, and I would assume that we will all be pretty desensitized to the effigy/kfc burning pretty soon.
What is readily apparent is that violence in Islam is the 600 lb Gorrilla in the room that no one wants to talk about or acknowledge. It is an absolute taboo, that should be discussed. I posted an anti-Islam web site that is pretty hateful,(http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/) but at the bottom he has a list of deadly attacks by Islamists, and I believe his accounts to be reasonably accurate. Suffice it to say that we are absolutely bombarded by media accounts of Islamic violence, because there is a lot of Islamic violence. (this is where most conversations get derailed about how violent Bush is blah blah blah). But if you look at the list of attacks on the afore mentioned web site, you cannot help but concude there is a *real *problem there.
So the Pope, intentionally or unintentionally, broke the taboo by referencing an obscure quote from 6 centuries ago. Rather than lambaste the Pope, it may be better to deal with the grain of truth that is found in the Popes’ words.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Not quite, its very simple, what he said has been deemed offensive by many people, and the vast majority is not some KFC burning extremist.
So to ignore that he chose a pathetic approach and start pointing towards
You know wha I would be the first in line to condemn the idiots who are making a mockery of my faith, but I will do so not only for those who are adherents of my faith, I will also do it for those who are adherents of other faiths or no faiths.
There is not a question of a this “OR” that. Lets discuss one thind at a time. I have been vocal against religious intolerance and extremists twisting the words in my faith. Tp me its not a question of ‘rather than do this do this’ I will do both and just as vocally, i would continue to speak up against the jackasses of the muslim world as I have been, and I will also speak up against this jackass of the catholic world, who is supposedly appointed by god to be his representative on ths planet.
What a reasonable person would do is to see that many reasonable people have issues with how he stated what he stated, and clarify, apolgize for poor examples and approach and be done and over with, but hey its catholic church took them a few decades to apolgize for being hitlers pals, I dont have much hope from this jackass apologizing either.
I am going to go after both 600lb gorillas that are not being acknowledged, first gorilla that you want muslims to see violence among followers of my faith due to politicizing by idiots, and the second gorilla which is open season on my faith by isiots..I am going to go condemn morons who think its okay to say anything aout my faith and be complete jackasses in their approach whether it is bin laden, pat robertson, billy grahams moron kid or this nazi pope.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Centuries of invasion by christians of Amercias, Africa and Asia and colonial rule that treated occupied people as animals is not seen as violent by OG, at that his eyes land in his ***, but if other people fight for their rights its violence.
Not so long ago, a great leader of a great christian nation was calling Nelson Mandela a terrorrist.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
he lived under nazi rule but was a ferment anti-nazi
get your facts straight
oh nevermind...forgot who i was talking to
facts doesnt matter to you, only what suits you....
so ya, he is a former nazi, elvis is still alive
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
The POPE , if he really meant it , he shud have atleast ascertained from true facts/source whether what he is stating is correct & if he has just quoted it , then it's a mistake of people the way they have treated his speech & spread it as a wild fire adding their words just to create a chaos in the muslim world & enjoy the movie of the moment, coz they know asian muslims dont think by brainss they only think by heart & they attack, which make these non muslims to watch & laugh at us (muslims).
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Ref: Pope apologizes for remarks on Islam
At least he had the courtesy to apologize, which I think is a nice gesture, otherwise things could’ve gotten worse.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
And in todays news:
BANGKOK, Thailand (AP) – A series of bomb blasts ripped through three department stores Saturday night in Thailand’s restive south, killing four and wounding dozens more, a local television station said.
- The attacks came just hours after the military staged a peace rally in the south, the site of a Muslim insurgency, where it expressed hope that people would work with authorities to end the violence.*
http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/asiapcf/09/16/thailand.bombs.ap/
GAZA CITY (AFP) - Assailants angry at Pope Benedict XVI’s comments on Islam targeted several churches across the Palestinian territories on the second day of attacks directed at the Christian church.
In Gaza City, a group calling itself the Islamic Organization of the Swords of Righteousness claimed responsibility for unleashing a volley of gunfire on the oldest church in the city.
“We carried out this shooting because of the pope’s statement, and he must apologise,” the caller, who refused to give his name, told AFP Saturday.
- The attack came a day after a grenade exploded outside the same church and four days after the pope criticised connections between Islam and violence, particularly with regard to jihad, or “holy war”.*
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060916/wl_mideast_afp/vaticanpopeislampalestinianunrestchurch
Sort of ironical eh?
Dozens of bodies found in Baghdad
**Forty-seven bodies have been found across Baghdad, police say, raising the total number of corpses found in recent days in the Iraqi capital to 176.** Many of the victims had been tortured or shot in the head or chest.
Police said 21 bodies were found in eastern Baghdad, and the other 26 in the west of the city.
A BBC correspondent in Baghdad says many are likely to have been killed by sectarian death squads, but some may have been victims of criminal gangs.
The discovery of the 47 bodies came just a day after police said they had recovered 50 corpses from the city’s streets in a 24-hour period.
Baghdad has been hit by a rising wave of sectarian violence over the past six months.
The BBC’s James Shaw, in Baghdad, says it is not clear if there has been a sharp increase in killings by death squads or whether the police are taking more care to record such deaths.
Sectarian violence in Iraq kills more in a week than the entire conflict in Ireland. But, let’s talk about the Pope, cause he is the problem. Let’s take to the streets to rant about perceived insults while literally hundreds are dying in sectarian violence. Makes sense.
Pope needs Dope Test
Pope needs Dope Test
Pope is considered very responsible person more-so when he is opening mouth in re other religions. Muslim is the only nation who believe in all the Prophets PBUT, including the Moses PBUH & Isa Ibn Maryam viz Messiah Jesus PBUH endorsed by Allah Almighty, as part and parcel of their faith. Nevertheless a few month before profaning by a Jew publisher and now by Pope, Benedict XVI recently blasphemous & sacrilegious remarks against Islam & Prophet Mohammad PBUH are highly mournful & regretful. This much dissenting remarks by a person of this stature provide nothing but food for antipathy, which is not a valid trend. I think that no pope has done so before. I doubt some sickness might have overwhelmed the present one - hence the present pope needs a dope-test.
If there is any illumination in this planet & universe it is due to Islam & Prophet Mohammad PBUH the Pope must not overlook!!!
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
^Stupid statement, if ordinary people in Muslim world cud do anything to stop violence in Iraq, they wud have done so. The violence is result of occupation. And there are other muslims who don't give a s*** about middle east but they have been hurt by Pope's comments.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
no it’s not a good thing it’s only showing to the “intelligent” world that pakistani parliament is too stupid to understand a little pope speech:bummer:
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Excuse me Paris, this is the worst remark i have ever seen from you. Let us "stupid people" know what pope meant.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
Sure, the US invented sectarian violence.
In the mean time the leading Somali cleric attempts to prove that Islam is not violent by calling for the murder of the Pope. Lovely.
Somali cleric calls for pope’s death
September 17, 2006
A HARDLINE cleric linked to Somalia's powerful Islamist movement has called for Muslims to "hunt down" and kill Pope Benedict XVI for his controversial comments about Islam.
Sheikh Abubukar Hassan Malin urged Muslims to find the pontiff and punish him for insulting the Prophet Mohammed and Allah in a speech that he said was as offensive as author Salman Rushdie’s novel The Satanic Verses.
“We urge you Muslims wherever you are to hunt down the Pope for his barbaric statements as you have pursued Salman Rushdie, the enemy of Allah who offended our religion,” he said in Friday evening prayers.
“Whoever offends our Prophet Mohammed should be killed on the spot by the nearest Muslim,” Malin, a prominent cleric in the Somali capital, told worshippers at a mosque in southern Mogadishu.
“We call on all Islamic Communities across the world to take revenge on the baseless critic called the pope,” he said.
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
i did not know you are part of that bunch of slavers …i mean pakistani upper class, including parliament:hoonh:
slavers= rich people using their money and influence on poor pakistani people to manipulate them into violence against the west on order to get social peace in pakistan, so that they can keep on exploiting them… and rich can be richer, while poors are poorer
Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD
What’s with these idiots responding to the Popes comments with violence, haha.
Publish cartoons of Mohammad with a bomb for a turban and what was the response, yep violence. Crazy *******s.
