POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

rambo143 · September 15, 2006, 5:08am

Benedetto XVI once again condemned every form of religious fundamentalism by citing the Koran that says: “no oppression of faith.” It is one of the sure things of the initial period in which Muhammad himself was still without power and was threatened," reminded the Pope in his speech this afternoon in the aula magna of the University of Ratisbon in Germany. Ratzinger also cited other “dispositions, developed subsequently and established in the Koran, about the Holy War”, but he focused his attention precisely on the contradiction that exists between this statement and the norm, even if attributed to Muhammad, “of spreading the faith that he preached by the sword.” An opportunity for this analysis of the two different concepts of Islam was given to the Pope by a historic page, the talk that “the intellectual Byzantine emperor Manuele II Paleologo, perhaps during the winter in 1391 near Ankara, had with an intellectual Persian on Christianity and Islam and on the truth of both.” The Pontiff states clearly while citing Theodore Khoury, the author that reconstructed that conversation, “Violence is against with the will of God and the nature of the spirit. God does not give in to blood; to not act according to reason is against the will of God. Faith is fruit of the spirit, not of the body. Thus whoever wants to bring someone to faith needs the capacity to speak well and to reason correctly, not violence and threats.” From that conversation, the theologian Pope also described the end: "to convince a rational spirit it is not necessary to use your fist, nor firearms, nor any other means to threaten a person with death. According to Ratzinger, “the decisive statement in this argument against conversion through violence is: to not act according to reason is against the will of God.” Pope explained, “For the Muslim doctrine, God is absolutely supernatural, thus his will is not tied to any of our categories, even that of rationality.” Thus we can discern from the Pontiff’s argument that this is the element that causes the most problems in the dialogue with Islam, because for this theological vision, “God is not even tied by his own words and nothing would obligate him to reveal the truth to us. If it were his will, man would also have to practice adulation,” the pope concluded.

http://www.agi.it/english/news.pl?doc=200609121857-1232-RT1-CRO-0-NF51&page=0&id=agionline-eng.arab

Afridi786 · September 15, 2006, 5:59am

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

^Ur suppose to give your comments and opinions when you post articles.

rambo143 · September 15, 2006, 9:11am

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Ok, Ab Jya Pope ke against bhi Fatwa Jari hoga :D

yo_wasim · September 15, 2006, 9:49am

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Pope Musalman hai kya. Tab jari karenge. Yaha par to sirf yeh baat kar raha hain.
Mushrikana Makkah to Huzur Sala Alayhiwa sallam ko, kitni baar jaan se maar ne ki koshish ke thi.
Ye kuch bhi nahi hain.

Well i feel its fear, that Islam is the religion of truth. But comments by a'la Pope, its funny.

Babuji · September 15, 2006, 12:49pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Wasnt a fatwa issued against the Danish cartoonist ? I dont think he was a Muslim either :)

yo_wasim · September 15, 2006, 1:10pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Was just joking. Let me first put across the meaning of Fatwa, unlike what media portrays FATWA that it is murdering or killing that person.
FATWA is judgements based on Quran and Prophetic tradition, sometimes it is also an opinion given by concensus.

Like if you go for any Islamic websites and pose any question and the answer provided based on your question is also termed as FATWA.

Anyways just clarified with my friend, i havent come across any FATWA or judgement against Danish Cartoonist, provide me wit the link.

I personally feel since it was a serious issue, Scholars of the highest order, should have passed a FATWA.

RashGuy · September 15, 2006, 1:25pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

[quote]
Well i feel its fear, that Islam is the religion of truth. But comments by a'la Pope, its funny.
[/quote]

Why is the comments by the pope considered to be funny. Are you contradicting the pope by saying that fundamentalists are the real muslims. If this is what you think, then the comments by the pope should have sounded really funny.

Babuji · September 15, 2006, 1:26pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,185202,00.html

yo_wasim · September 15, 2006, 1:34pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Thanks

Ohioguy · September 15, 2006, 1:54pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

This is one more manipulated blasphemy. The Pope was giving a lecture on the nature of Faith and Reason. He widely used examples from Greek, Christian and Muslim thought. The “blasphemy” is part of a quote, not his own words, and constitutes a couple of sentences of a 7 page essay. Specifically he is commenting on the rationality of spreading faith by the sword. (Of course in the past month we have had two high profile forced conversions.) Rather than fall into the frenzy of media misinterpretation, perhaps we should read the Pope’s actual words in precise context. Let’s hope that he does not cave in to media pressure to change his words.

Lahore_981 · September 15, 2006, 1:58pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Uncle Ohioguy,

The good thing is that the Pakistani Parliament has passed a resolution to condemn this statement from pope and clearly declared it Anti-Muslims and igniting the hatred among the two faiths. I am proud of it as my country has openly condemned this.

Sadiyah · September 15, 2006, 2:19pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Not sure if this one’s been posted before, as I couldn’t find it in the thread:

Source: http://www.cbc.ca/story/world/national/2006/09/15/pope-islam.html

I’m not sure how much of it is taken out of context or in context, the quotation that he shared is certainly disturbing.

I just hope Muslims don’t go haywire with the usual of burning flags, effigies, and buildings. I’m sure there are better ways of getting the message across.

** Ohioguy**, what are the two high profile forced conversions? I believe I missed it.

Seminole · September 15, 2006, 2:38pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

I read where Tasnim Aslam said that by describing Islam as intolerant, it encourages violence. He's probably right about the violence but wrong on who it encourages. It will won't be against Muslims by rather by Muslims in their state of indignation which will only perpetuate what the Pope quoted.

Babuji · September 15, 2006, 2:40pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Just curious - isnt Tasnim Aslam a woman ?

Mr_Fraudia · September 15, 2006, 2:41pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

partially right...well you debase an entire group as being intolerant of you or against you and the masses would increasingly be in favour of or at minimum indifferent if you go treat them with a different set of standards.

Show them as less than equal, different, etc etc.. thats kinda the whole deal with the slavery thing too right..it was acceptable not too long ago because of such sentiments.

Ohioguy · September 15, 2006, 3:01pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

The two kidnapped Fox reporters in Gaza were forced to appear in a video saying that they had converted to Islam. Jill Carroll also reported pressure by her captors in Iraq to convert, and "Shazzam the American" in his latest Al-Qaedda video threatens consequences if Americans do not convert. Take your pick.

Please read the whole of the Pope's remarks. The Popes lecture is really quite scholarly. His conclusion is that violence does not serve God. He uses this quote from the Byzantine emperor as the beginning of a line of reasoning that determines that the shedding of blood is never in the best interest of God, and that the beginnings of the Old Testiment, New Testiment and the Quran all begin this way. His conclusion is that the concept of jihad was only added to the Quran later in the development of Islam.

Please read the entire lecture before we go burn KFCs.

Mr_Fraudia · September 15, 2006, 3:12pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

and then he does a disservice by not explaning the concept of Jihad and leaving listeners with partial and incorrect. So scholarly but myopic and tainted.

Did he elaborate when the concept of crusades was added to christianity. quoting byzantine emperors is fine, why nto quote byzantines that suffered at the hands of marauding crusader thugs?

KFCs should be burnt not because of what the pope said but because of the crap food they sell :)

yah the rabid right wingers contradict the message of islam, they twist it, so lets not attack the concept of jihad, but how the concept of jihad has been twsited to suit one's needs.

Sadiyah · September 15, 2006, 3:30pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

Ohioguy, thank you for the clarification. The acts of kidnappers cannot equated to what the pope made reference to.

Pope is clearly a figure who is highly revered and looked up to, whereas the kidnappers were random individuals. I agree the forceful conversions were inappropriate. Lets see if there's a clarification from the pope over this matter.

Stu · September 15, 2006, 3:49pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

It looks like the context of the pope's message was a good one, but hopefully he realized in advance that any mention of Mohammed in a negative light risks setting off a frenzy in the muslim world.

It will be interesting to see if any Islamic fundamentalists have the cajones to issue a fatwa. I highly doubt it.

Afridi786 · September 15, 2006, 3:51pm

Re: POPE: FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM CONTRADICTS MUHAMMAD

^U want that to happen?