Re: Piercings
^ wht hadith, i still dont c one. All i c there are fatwaas. Both earlobe and belly button piercing have the same complications. THere is no pain in gettin um and if u dont take care of um, both can turn out to be bad.
Re: Piercings
.
[quote]
It was narrated that Ibn ‘Abbaas (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came out and prayed, then he delivered a khutbah – and he did not mention any adhaan or iqaamah – then he went to the women and exhorted and reminded them, and told them to give charity, and I saw them taking off their earrings and necklaces and giving them to Bilaal, then he and Bilaal went back to his house.
Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4951) and Muslim (884).
According to another report narrated by them both:
They started throwing their earrings and necklaces.
2 – It was narrated that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: Eleven women sat and promised one another that they would not conceal anything about their husbands … the eleventh one said: My husband is Abu Zar’ and what (can I say about) Abu Zar’? He has given me many ornaments and my ears are heavily loaded with them. … ‘Aa’ishah said: The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: I am to you as Abu Zar’ was to Umm Zar’.
Narrated by al-Bukhaari (4893) and Muslim (2448).
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) approved of what Abu Zar’ did by filling the ears of Umm Zar’ with jewellery until they became heavy.
[/quote]
Re: Piercings
^ i dont c um supporting the idea of belly button piercing not being permissible.
Re: Piercings
no no. I'm saying that those are Hadith telling us that ear piercings are permissable and why (so people won't question why ear piercings aren't considered haraam and other things like tattoos/belly piercings are).
I dunno. Allah (swt) knows best. I wouldn't do it (just to stay on the safe side).
Re: Piercings
Why don't we just obey those who have more ilm then us? (im talking about the scholars who spent their life on why its haraam and halaal...)
Re: Piercings
Sweet Phatima, a word of advice from a hadith:
“Give up what appears to be doubtful for what is certain. Truth brings peace of mind, and deception doubt.”
Prophet Muhammad :saw: as reported by Hasan bin 'Ali
Re: Piercings
wonderful hadith…Jazak’Allah for quoting that. 
Re: Piercings
Yaar in those times (times of the prophet) there were no belly piercings, but he allowed ear piercings right? Its just like how when alcohol was banned, people extended it to drugs because they are the same but didnt exist in that time. In one way or another, the prophet (PBUH) covered all aspects of life of the future through examples in that (relatively) primitive time, which is a great acheivement. I think belly piercings should be allowed like ear piercings because, apart from the location, there isnt any difference...
BTW, I dont beleive in fatwas and religious scholars...they give the impression that Allah and his Prophet (PBUH) were lacking in some sort. This is just my opinion.
Re: Piercings
BTW, I dont beleive in fatwas and religious scholars...they give the impression that Allah and his Prophet (PBUH) were lacking in some sort. This is just my opinion.
Well its like this. You go to the doctor. The doctor tells you, that you have an infection. You say, PFFFFFFFFFFFFFFT, I think i know my own body, its not an infection it'll go away soon, You don't know anything. The doctor warns you that this could get worse, and that if it spreads, there is no stopping it, and you will suffer. You say, you don't know anything, I took biology in grade 10 and I think i know what this is, its not an infection.
If that were the case, and if it was true. You really think in that situation you know more then the doctor who has spent his life studying the human body?
When you are sick you go to a doctor. When you're sick in terms of deen, you go to an Aalim, Ullema, Fuqhi, who knows his islam better than us.
Simple.
Re: Piercings
If that were the case, and if it was true. You really think in that situation you know more then the doctor who has spent his life studying the human body?
When you are sick you go to a doctor. When you're sick in terms of deen, you go to an Aalim, Ullema, Fuqhi, who knows his islam better than us.
Simple.
i used to be the same as pakap when i did'nt know what is fiqh and what is a scholar.........i was just ignorant.
Re: Piercings
IMO piercing is piercing be it anywhere, now keep it in mind i am not saying haraam or halaal.
its just like you steal 1$ or 100$ is same. either you accept it's wrong and don't do it at all (ear, nose, tummy or even lower than that all included meaning no piercing at all).
Or as Pakap says the other kinds were not available at the time thats why not mentioned.
now the ppl who say that changing the creation of the God, what about all the other things which we change as eye brows, nose correction, cosmetic surgery, breast implants, liposuction, hair styling, nail shaping blah blah blah. Mind you a woman can do all of these things while saying i am doing it for my husband's pleasure.
BTW I dont understand this "husband's pleasure" things sounds like male domination/chuvinistic. or rather like women don't have any status at all except a plaything for pleasure.
Re: Piercings
Thats a rouse Light Bearer, no man wants to see his wife pierced lol. Its what the wife wants for herself and believes she is doing it for her husband.
To the mullah squad: Mind you Im not talking about the respectable doctors, its the hakeems (fake doctors/mullahs) that are comparable here. The doctors should indded be heard for there advice, but not when the supreme doctor (Allah) and his book are around. From a religion of GOD it will become a religion of scholars...
Faith that is dependant on the interpretation of scholars...that is some faith man! Hey even the Prophet was human so scholars can make mistakes cant they?
Yeah I used to believe just as you guys in fatwa once...then Osama bin Ladin came in with his "its ok to kill Americans" fatwa... man I was ignorant.
Re: Piercings
its just like you steal 1$ or 100$ is same. either you accept it's wrong and don't do it at all (ear, nose, tummy or even lower than that all included meaning no piercing at all).
I agree, but some things can still be tolerated more than others. For example, we can eat beef but not pork. And nowadays pork is cleaned really well so it's safe to eat.
WaSalaam
Re: Piercings
To the mullah squad: Mind you Im not talking about the respectable doctors, its the hakeems (fake doctors/mullahs) that are comparable here. The doctors should indded be heard for there advice, but not when the supreme doctor (Allah) and his book are around. From a religion of GOD it will become a religion of scholars...
Faith that is dependant on the interpretation of scholars...that is some faith man! Hey even the Prophet was human so scholars can make mistakes cant they?
Yeah I used to believe just as you guys in fatwa once...then Osama bin Ladin came in with his "its ok to kill Americans" fatwa... man I was ignorant.
Are you a scholar? If there aren't any scholars in islam, there would BE no islam. SIMPLE.
THe Sahabahs were dependant on the interpretations of the scholars, the whole world is.
IF every Scholar agrees on one thing, who are you to call them "fake"?
Re: Piercings
What do you find cute? 
Re: Piercings
It is not haraam but its problematic when you get fat and your belly becomes big just due to fat.. you see cottage cheese teens with their belly butoon pierced.. dont ya?
Re: Piercings
Interesting discussion.
First of all, I think belly-piercing is unattractive and painful, so should be avoided even if just from an aesthetic sense. :-P Just as I think piercing eye-brows, lips, chin, nose (!) and plenty of other body parts is unattractive. too. But thats just me, so don't mind. I am sure a lot of people find all kinds of piercing attractive, and thats their choice.
From an Islamic ruling stand point, I think many scholars are providing an opinion from their own frame of reference, which is the culture they live in. For them ear-piercing is ok, because thats what they see all the time (and they can find ahadeeth to support their cultural views), and belly-piercing is not ok, because thats not what they see around them. I think thats a fairly shallow way of providing advice.
Islam is for entire mankind all over the world. Cultures vary significantly around the world. What may be unheard-of in one part of the world, may be entirely normal in another. Thats why Islam prescribes standard **sat'r **requirements, but doesn't force the followers to wear only abaya, jalbab and taub. Whatever covers your *sat'r *and is modest is fine, be it pants or shalwaar.
The argument about pain, again, is inane, as I think ear piercing involves extreme pain too. Lo and behold ear piercing is permitted. Point is, calculating pain is entirely judgemental, and should be left for the individual to decide. The argument about modifying your body is not applicable, because there are clearly rulings to support ear-piercing.
In a nut shell, let me clarify my position by giving an example. If you go and spread dawa'a in African jungles, you are not likely to make much progress if you tell their women that all their various piercings (and they usually have a lot!) are haraam and should be removed. Those are part of their culture and part of their beautification regimen, just as ear-piercing is part of our normal culture. True that it may not be in accordance with Arabic/Asia/Western culture, but we are not here to pass judgements or to covert their cultural traditions. As long as they keep their *sat'r *(and don't go around showing their breasts, like some of them do), they are ok. Anyone disagrees?
Re: Piercings
First of all, I think belly-piercing is unattractive and painful, so should be avoided even if just from an aesthetic sense. :-P Just as I think piercing eye-brows, lips, chin, nose (!) and plenty of other body parts is unattractive. too. But thats just me, so don't mind. I am sure a lot of people find all kinds of piercing attractive, and thats their choice.
From an Islamic ruling stand point, I think many scholars are providing an opinion from their own frame of reference, which is the culture they live in. For them ear-piercing is ok, because thats what they see all the time (and they can find ahadeeth to support their cultural views), and belly-piercing is not ok, because thats not what they see around them. I think thats a fairly shallow way of providing advice.
Islam is for entire mankind all over the world. Cultures vary significantly around the world. What may be unheard-of in one part of the world, may be entirely normal in another. Thats why Islam prescribes standard **sat'r **requirements, but doesn't force the followers to wear only abaya, jalbab and taub. Whatever covers your *sat'r *and is modest is fine, be it pants or shalwaar.
The argument about pain, again, is inane, as I think ear piercing involves extreme pain too. Lo and behold ear piercing is permitted. Point is, calculating pain is entirely judgemental, and should be left for the individual to decide. The argument about modifying your body is not applicable, because there are clearly rulings to support ear-piercing.
In a nut shell, let me clarify my position by giving an example. If you go and spread dawa'a in African jungles, you are not likely to make much progress if you tell their women that all their various piercings (and they usually have a lot!) are haraam and should be removed. Those are part of their culture and part of their beautification regimen, just as ear-piercing is part of our normal culture. True that it may not be in accordance with Arabic/Asia/Western culture, but we are not here to pass judgements or to covert their cultural traditions. As long as they keep their *sat'r *(and don't go around showing their breasts, like some of them do), they are ok. Anyone disagrees?
lol this is clearly not the case as some fatwas are from highly educated scholars who were born and raised in the west...
Re: Piercings
Same thing. If you notice, all the *daleels *are only for permissibility of ear-piercing, not for prohibition of belly-piercing. I don't like belly-piercings too. If you ask me, I'll say don't get it. That doesn't make it a religously sanctioned ruling. In fact, it won't be any kind of ruling at all. Its just a personal opinion.