Pieces of Meat

Re: Pieces of Meat

the underlying message wasnt delivered in the right way to that particular audience. heres the uk archbishops view on the veil. sensible views and using the correct terminology

*The Archbishop of Canterbury has entered the Muslim veil debate by saying people should be free to wear visible religious symbols. *

Dr Rowan Williams said aiming for a society where no symbols such as veils, crosses, sidelocks or turbans would be seen was "politically dangerous".
It would treat the state as a "central licensing authority" which creates public morality, he told the Times.
In recent weeks many politicians have debated the veil's place in UK society.
Commons Leader Jack Straw began the row by disclosing that he asks Muslim women to remove the veil at constituency surgeries.
Tony Blair agreed the veil was a "mark of separation", but Muslim groups complained they were being stigmatised. There has also been debate about a Christian British Airways worker wearing a cross.

Writing in the Times, Dr Williams said his recent return from a visit to China had had a "slightly surreal" feel.
He had arrived in the middle of "what felt like a general panic about the role of religion in society", he said.
He said that, until now, it had been taken for granted that the state is "not the source of morality and legitimacy", but a mediator between the country's different communities.
"It is not secular in the sense of giving some kind of privilege to a non-religious or anti-religious set of commitments or policies," he wrote.
But he expressed a fear that the UK could be moving towards this kind of secularism, "which would change our political culture more radically than we imagine".
'Emotional' response
His stance has been backed by other senior churchmen.
The Bishop of Southwark, the Right Rev Tom Butler, said Dr Williams had provided a "helpful perspective".
"Religious symbols add to the richness of our society and we should not be too influenced by those who push such symbols to excess," he said.
Meanwhile, Muslims have been urged not to react "emotionally" to controversial statements about the veil.
'Political agendas'
Prof Tariq Ramadan, a visiting professor at Oxford University who addressed an interfaith conference on Wednesday, said: "Many Muslims do not realise that by reacting emotionally to the politicians they are alienating citizens.
"This may be the way to a critical and intellectual approach with wisdom that is profound about the questions Muslim are facing."
He said: "People made a calculated decision in raising this subject. "Nevertheless we need to be careful that we do not get drawn into political agendas."

Re: Pieces of Meat

The statement is totally wrong, wrong analogy too. I dont agree with it one bit. He is almost giving men excuses to go rape women and in no way is that EVER acceptable in Islam. I am not even sure what the underlying message is...

However, I do understand why maulvis are so concerned about the way muslim women dress these ways and i dont blame them.

I just dont agree with opening up threads and bashing maulvis. If you have such a big issue with him then write to him, talking to him, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of being a girl and whining.

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I just realized the thread starter lady made a good point, why the double standards by these goras?
And why the double standards from us muslims? On one hand we want others to be tolerate people insulting our prophet(saww), of people who call themselves muslims when they dont even believe in him being the last prophet, of normal people who call themselves prophet, etc. then why not be tolerate of these people who grew up in a totally different country?

Its not about accepting, its about tolerating and like i said before DOING something about it.,

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according to bbc, the maulvi ji appologized. what I dont understand is why goras are not accepting the appology when muslims were being forced to accept pope's appology... and what ever happened to freedom of speech? these are maulvi jis thoughts, he expressed them.
if cartoons of p.b.u.h are allowed in the name of freedom of expression, this little incident should not bother goras/kalas/ or whoever as well.

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maybe the fact that the police in saudi arabia is totally incompetent or the fact that if a women gets raped there she needs to produce 4 witnesses or she will get stoned

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maybe the fact that he really doesnt mean it...

or the fact that australian girls are repeatedly gang-raped by Arabs and Muslims in Australia

these people need to be deported because they give all of us a bad name

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saudis are not good at all ,they just hide everything

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because now a days they are after muslims, qayamat ka zamana kareeb aa raha hia:(

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The only problem i am nderstanding is that kuffar or christians or jews need something against muslims to blame them, especially scholars

Re: Pieces of Meat

^
Ditto

Just another excuse to take a stab at Islaam, first the veil now this, everyday Christian moron ministers say thousands of politically incorrect things on TV, nobody ever pulls them up for it.

I'm sick of everyone picking on Islam when Islam is not even the issue, just yesterday I was reading about them North African kids burning buses in France, their Muslim identity had to be mentioned even though it had nothing to do with it.

Anything, just anything to make those "evil evil" Muslims look bad to justify and encourage their upcoming holocaust (get ready my dears and fill your hearts with Iman or you'll be neither hither or there).

Always just one side of the story, people don't even have the freedom of speech to shed light on the terrorism USA, UK and Israel are committing against Muslims (which is actually the cause of terrorism against their people) because it can incite terror, so much for freedom of speech!!

They are a people without values, they have nothing to uphold, no solid ideology or identity, shallow people, they're a joke, in one breath they talk about freedom of speech, multiculturalism, equal-rights and then in the next they contradict themselves. LOL, these people are a joke, western values my backside, values hahaha, the west has no values, shallow people without anything to live for, they create their own flimsy ideologies to make themselves feel better.

Unless you agree with Bush and Blair bombing and colonising our land, killing our people in Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan and in the future Pakistan then you will be targetted by the West and get called an extremist/fundamentalist no matter how westernised and modertae you may think you are. Like somebody already said the grey area is vanishing now, you're either with them or you're not.

Like I said before these people have an evil evil history, they're just getting back on track, the false mask they hid behind for 30-40 years has worn off but some so called "Muslims" will turn a blind eye because they are too in love with their luxurious lives.

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are you suggesting that girls whine?
and as I asked earlier that courtesy of contacting the person directly, is that extended to other ppl as well? or just to select mullahs?

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as far as him not really meaning it, same could be said of other apologies as well. he has publically stated he was wrong, so let it go now.

repeatedly? how many cases do you know?
and how do they stack in numbers to such acts committed by non arabs and muslims.

Re: Pieces of Meat

I strongly agree that hijab is FARZ and it stops many of society bad habits in society
Indeed it is, but wallahi it is also incumbent upon women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity. 99.9% of the scholars today agree that hijab is FARDH upon muslim women. About Niqab (face covering), there is a dispute among scholars, but at the least, we all know that Hijab is compulsory. Those who don’t wear hijab, whether they get raped or not, Allah (swt) will deal with them appropriately. i agree with you on this issue

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nothing wrong with what that cleric said.:o …lol a mullah can never be more jahil then most of us:halo:. ..respectless bunch of loosers sitting behind their pc and talking how noorless his face is like u guys r some sinless angels or supermodels :rolleyes:

Re: Pieces of Meat

are you saying he is a supermodel? :smiley:

ps: if there is nothign wrong with hat he said why did he apologise for his comments, either he was wrong, or he has no spine, pick which one is the case.

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lol bad ppl find it very offending when some1 tells them their short comings so obviously he as a honourable did what he was supposed to do …although I do not agree with the way he tried to make his point but the fundamental issue he wanted to highlight was that the way the women dress in a society affect the behavior of males and consequently the number of rapes that occur in the society.

To substantiate that “hypothesis”, we can look at the “rapes per capita” of different countries:

Rank--------Country----------Rapes/1000

1 ----------- South Africa ----------- 1.19
3 ----------- Australia -------------- 0.78
9 -------------- US ------------------ 0.30
65 ---------- Saudi Arabia ---------- 0.00

Source: UN Office of drugs and crime prevention, also available on the following link:
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_rap_…apes-per-capita

the most shocking piece of data is available on the US FBI website that shows a strong correlation in the way women dress in US to the ratio of rapes.

see: http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius_04/offenses_re…cible_rape.html (see table 2.17)

As can be seen from the table 2.17 (in the above link) that during summer (when women are dressed in more revealing clothes) the percentage of “forcible rapes” increases perceptibly.

lol numbers speak for themself…:slight_smile:

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the issue is not of any facts or correlations, the issue first is that he handled it in an improper manner and his statements and example was sub par for someone in his position. lastly the facts can not be used as justification or excuse anyways, and that is what it seemed like aside from the idiotic approach.

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it is a little disturbing that when you speak of stats for such a horrific crime you have the audacity to laugh out loud (lol).

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u know whats disturbing.. ppl who have no clue about islam talking like they know everything. show some respect dun talk when u dun know in what context he made those comments …girls who dress cheap have more chances of getting in troubles and thas a fact now that does not mean they asked for it but they have also a share in what happened to them not just the rapiste:halo: ..why is that tiny countries in west have more rape cases then even the biggest muslim countries:confused: ???..actually i m not surprised(i was before)that ppl badmouth clerics …truth hurts and thas why so many western minded girls r outrageous:p …

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what conext did he make those comments in.. hmm lets see..read it and weep.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6089008.stm

*Excerpts of al-Hilali’s speech
This is the edited transcript of Sheik Taj el-Din al-Hilali’s controversial speech. It was translated from Arabic by Dalia Mattar, from Australian broadcaster SBS, and originally printed by The Australian newspaper.
Those atheists, people of the book [Christians and Jews], where will they end up? In Surfers Paradise? On the Gold Coast?

Where will they end up? In hell. And not part-time. For eternity. They are the worst in God’s creation.

Who commits the crimes of theft? The man or the woman? The man.

‘Women’s responsibility’

That’s why the man was mentioned before the woman when it comes to theft because his responsibility is providing.

But when it comes to adultery, it’s 90% the women’s responsibility. Why? Because a woman possesses the weapon of seduction.

It is she who takes off her clothes, shortens them, flirts, puts on make-up and powder and takes to the streets, God protect us, dallying. It’s she who shortens, raises and lowers.

If the meat was covered, the cats wouldn’t roam around it.

Then it’s a look, then a smile, then a conversation, a greeting, then a conversation, then a date, then a meeting, then a crime, then Long Bay jail. [laughs].

Then you get a judge, who has no mercy, and he gives you 65 years.

But when it comes to this disaster, who started it? In his literature, scholar al-Rafihi says: ‘If I came across a rape crime - kidnap and violation of honour - I would discipline the man and order that the woman be arrested and jailed for life.’

‘Uncovered meat’

Why would you do this, Rafihi? He says because if she had not left the meat uncovered, the cat wouldn’t have snatched it.

If you take a kilo of meat, and you don’t put it in the fridge or in the pot or in the kitchen but you leave it on a plate in the backyard, and then you have a fight with the neighbour because his cats eat the meat, you’re crazy. Isn’t this true?

If you take uncovered meat and put it on the street, on the pavement, in a garden, in a park or in the backyard, without a cover and the cats eat it, is it the fault of the cat or the uncovered meat? The uncovered meat is the problem.

If the meat was covered, the cats wouldn’t roam around it. If the meat is inside the fridge, they won’t get it.

If the meat was in the fridge and it [the cat] smelled it, it can bang its head as much as it wants, but it’s no use.

‘Satan’s weapons’

If the woman is in her boudoir, in her house and if she’s wearing the veil and if she shows modesty, disasters don’t happen.

That’s why he said she owns the weapon of seduction.

Satan sees women as half his soldiers: “You’re my messenger to achieve my needs.”

Satan tells women: “You’re my weapon to bring down any stubborn man. There are men that I fail with. But you’re the best of my weapons.”

The woman was behind Satan playing a role when she disobeyed God and went out all dolled up and unveiled and made of herself palatable food that rakes and perverts would race for. She was the reason behind this sin taking place. *

idiotic premise, and idiotic example and idiotic excuses