Physical Involvement

[aqua70]

Re: Physical Involvement

@badabing

I don’t understand why you would want to know - surely it would make you insecure in the relationship?

Surely, the relationship would not be pursued if it’s an important issue, instead of them finding out later and going through a major heartbreak.

[TLK]

@Jolie:10285434

Errr I was just reading your posts on previous and saw your repeatedly mention staying mum on “sins” and how we are not supposed to disclose them no matter what. So my common sense told me that murder and robbery also count as sins.

Victimless sins are what Reha must be referring to, and she is right. It’s been encouraged to not talk about it. I think the logic is this that one day, you might repent and Allah may forgive you.

Now about hiding your past relationships from your spouse: if it’s water under the bridge and long time ago and you have no intention of repeating it, especially if you have done that before you ever committed to the current relationship, then keep it to yourself. On the other hand, if you slept with his best friend ( not you, just saying in general) a night before your wedding, then you better come clean.

[Reha]

Re: Physical Involvement

@aqua70

Surely, the relationship would not be pursued if it’s an important issue, instead of them finding out later and going through a major heartbreak.

Why heartbreak though? Its not like they were deceiving you.

It seems as if this is equivalent to cheating to people…hmm

[Jolie]

Re: Physical Involvement

@mahool

@Jolie

I want to dive in water well. I don’t understand your point on pre-martial sex.

If that creature of Allah mutually cooperated and result the joyous moment of their life and he or she had no such enmity each other. Or more accurate word is consensual sex.
They both got proposal from different families. A crime they did in secret but now both of them want to settle in pious life. Why do you want to make it to difficult them for going through all bureaucratic procedure of past history log of their life.

If Allah Himself does not want them accountable why would they mess their life by confessing their sin to their future spouses.

Honestly, I care less about how innocent or pleasurable a certain sin was for somebody. Aren’t all sins pleasurable and feel good experience at some point? That’s besides the point, I don’t care about that.

All I want to know why Islam doesn’t give me the right to expect an honest answer from my potential life partner? Why? I know we are not supposed to boast about our sins. But is there a Quranic verse and Hadith that says lie to your partner, withhold information when they really want to know is just truth?

[Iconoclast]

Re: Physical Involvement

@mahool

@Jolie

I want to dive in water well. I don’t understand your point on pre-martial sex.

If that creature of Allah mutually cooperated and result the joyous moment of their life and he or she had no such enmity each other. Or more accurate word is consensual sex.
They both got proposal from different families. A crime they did in secret but now both of them want to settle in pious life. Why do you want to make it to difficult them for going through all bureaucratic procedure of past history log of their life.

If Allah Himself does not want them accountable why would they mess their life by confessing their sin to their future spouses.

People do have a right to know about a person with whom they are going to spend rest of their life with. If a potential spouse wants to know, then he/she should be told, or just say that I would not like to disclose this. Like it or not, but the only way to judge a person’s future behavior is to see their past.

[badabing]

Re: Physical Involvement

First, I’m a man, not a woman. Second, do I have to reveal to my future wife that I once had a haram big mac or that I’m a habitual masturbater - just giving examples guy, i’m not, honest, or am I? lol. Anyway, whether or not I’ve had premarital sex is irrelevant to who I am now and who I plan on being in the future - a famous guy once said that all sons of Adam are sinners, the best of sinners is the one who repents!

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Reha

When it comes to prior relationships, we are not to disclose anything. No matter what.

Smh

[Iconoclast]

Re: Physical Involvement

@TLK

Victimless sins are what Reha must be referring to, and she is right. It’s been encouraged to not talk about it. I think the logic is this that one day, you might repent and Allah may forgive you.

Now about hiding your past relationships from your spouse: if it’s water under the bridge and long time ago and you have no intention of repeating it, especially if you have done that before you ever committed to the current relationship, then keep it to yourself. On the other hand, if you slept with his best friend ( not you, just saying in general) a night before your wedding, then you better come clean.

I doubt there is any difference in disclosing victimless or victim"full" sins when it comes to disclosure.

[S_Punk]

I don’t think anyone is saying what u seem to think, Jolie.. which is that if someone asks u “Have u done such-and-such thing in ur past?” And the person lies in response. No one is promoting lying… rather, that the question should not be posed in the first place. If u are planning ur future with someone, judge them based on what u see today… not an act committed in their past that has no bearing on anyone except the 2 who were involved (past relationships/intimacy)… obvs in cases of rape/abuse.. these are crimes where someone is being hurt, they must be told.

[Jolie]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Iconoclast

People do have a right to know about a person with whom they are going to spend rest of their life with. If a potential spouse wants to know, then he/she should be told, or just say that I would not like to disclose this. Like it or not, but the only way to judge a person’s future behavior is to see their past.

Exactly. It is as simple as that. Can’t believe people going round circles and bringing religion in to justify and encourage dishonesty. It’s a such a slippery slope.

I’m not some insecure mad religious psycho woman who would drag my potential suitor to Saudia Arabia and get his onions chopped off for sleeping with a woman, so he never looks at a woman ever again or call off the marriage. But if I’m going to spend my rest of life with someone, I deserve to know everything I genuinely want to know, be it’s a simple question on food allergies or past relationship. Who knows, I might get a good laugh at his ex girlfriend’s antics or find his whole sob story amusing (I had done that). Maybe I’m not your typical insecure desi woman.

[badabing]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Reha

Why heartbreak though? Its not like they were deceiving you.

It seems as if this is equivalent to cheating to people…hmm

Exactly! It happened before you met! It can’t be undone.

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Physical Involvement

You people must have done pretty f**ked up things if you’re unforthcoming about it. Insecurities. The jimmies have defiantly been rustled.

[TLK]

@Iconoclast:10285449

@""TLK""

Victimless sins are what Reha must be referring to, and she is right. It’s been encouraged to not talk about it. I think the logic is this that one day, you might repent and Allah may forgive you.

Now about hiding your past relationships from your spouse: if it’s water under the bridge and long time ago and you have no intention of repeating it, especially if you have done that before you ever committed to the current relationship, then keep it to yourself. On the other hand, if you slept with his best friend ( not you, just saying in general) a night before your wedding, then you better come clean.

I doubt there is any difference in disclosing victimless or victim"full" sins when it comes to disclosure.

I m not sure what you meant, but if you are thinking that hiding your own sins is not being honest then it’s not true.
Remember that Allah is called Sattarul Uyoob (the concealer of sins) for a reason. He would be called revealer of sins, if hiding your sins was immoral.

[aqua70]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Reha

Why heartbreak though? Its not like they were deceiving you.

It seems as if this is equivalent to cheating to people…hmm

Heartbreak because if your potential spouse asks you about it in the first place then that means it is an important issue for them. The relationship would be built on straight up dishonesty.

[badabing]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Ethan_Hunt

You people must have done pretty f**ked up things if you’re unforthcoming about it. Insecurities. The jimmies have defiantly been rustled.

No insecurities on my end - the past is the past, people do **** when they go off to University but soon settle down once they hit they’re mid to late 20’s. A person shouldn’t be judged on their past.

[Ethan_Hunt]

Re: Physical Involvement

@badabing

No insecurities on my end - the past is the past, people do **** when they go off to University but soon settle down once they hit they’re mid to late 20’s. A person shouldn’t be judged on their past.

They shouldn’t be but why not admit to their mistakes and show how they’ve changed. How hard can it be.

[Jolie]

Re: Physical Involvement

@S_Punk

I don’t think anyone is saying what u seem to think, Jolie.. which is that if someone asks u “Have u done such-and-such thing in ur past?” And the person lies in response. No one is promoting lying… rather, that the question should not be posed in the first place. If u are planning ur future with someone, judge them based on what u see today… not an act committed in their past that has no bearing on anyone except the 2 who were involved (past relationships/intimacy)… obvs in cases of rape/abuse.. these are crimes where someone is being hurt, they must be told.

These questions are never posed in ‘first place’ or at least this is not how things work in my circle, we don’t do the whole tea trolley charade. But trust me these questions eventually and most naturally prop up when a girl and guy starts communicating in little detail. At that stage in time, I believe both partners deserve absolute honesty from each other no matter how irrelevant the question is. If a girl or boy doesn’t want to marry a person who was involved in pre-marital sex, shouldn’t their choice be respected?Whatever happened to that whole preference preaching? Hypocrisy. Let’s not encourage selfish behaviour just because someone feels too embarrassed to reveal their boo boos.

No matter what the intentions are, I just don’t tolerate dishonesty. I’m proud to be such a bad Muslim in this case.

[badabing]

Re: Physical Involvement

@Ethan_Hunt

They shouldn’t be but why not admit to their mistakes and show how they’ve changed. How hard can it be.

They are my mistakes - I don’t see why I should burden another with my past, it’s mine alone to deal with. The important questions should be:

Will I step outside of the marriage? NO
Do I have an STD? NO
Will I use my experience to make spouse feel insecure? NO

So what’s the issue, I have no intention of going back to such a lifestyle, so why must it be broadcast and psychoanalyzed to kingdom come?

[S_Punk]

@Iconoclast:10285449

@""TLK""

Victimless sins are what Reha must be referring to, and she is right. It’s been encouraged to not talk about it. I think the logic is this that one day, you might repent and Allah may forgive you.

Now about hiding your past relationships from your spouse: if it’s water under the bridge and long time ago and you have no intention of repeating it, especially if you have done that before you ever committed to the current relationship, then keep it to yourself. On the other hand, if you slept with his best friend ( not you, just saying in general) a night before your wedding, then you better come clean.

I doubt there is any difference in disclosing victimless or victim"full" sins when it comes to disclosure.

So there is no difference between the disclosure of a man who has raped someone and one who had consensual sex with his gf? One has a victim. It should be disclosed. It needs to be. That reveals a lot abt someone. The other involves two consenting ppl and it’s in the past… it’s done and over with. Most ppl would accept a guy like that if they see that today he’s a good decent guy. But it’s not neccessary knowledge. I think it would be embarrassing for the one who has to reveal it. Idk.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Physical Involvement

@TLK

I m not sure what you meant, but if you are thinking that hiding your own sins is not being honest then it’s not true.
Remember that Allah is called Sattarul Uyoob (the concealer of sins) for a reason. He would be called revealer of sins, if hiding your sins was immoral.

You were saying that victimless sins should not be revealed, I am saying no sins should be revealed.