Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
sorry, I’m not in any mood to burst your bubble, when you know what I was talking about.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
let's leave at least this thread alone and not turn it into India vs Pakistan controversy. let all of us respect and mourn the martyrs. thank you to all.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
It about sums it up...
Well that would be sad if rather than learning to understand one another we decided a fence was the best way. Anyway there is hardly any people to people contact between those living in India and Pakistan.
Personally i don't think all past issues need to be dragged every time there is a tragedy whether that be 26/11, Kashmir, Balochistan, raw, isi. It's possible just to focus on the issues of the moment.
Maybe after all these conspiracy threads this is the only way.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
I think Indians here should send their condolence messages and reply to threads already started on conspiracy theories rather than make more of the same. Let Pakistanis decide how they want to take things forward.
I have seen lot of positive fb messages and twitter messages which were genuine including a blood donation drive in delhi on 20th dec and number of messages from school children.
3 posts is not representative either . Many more positive messages than negative ones. You only have to check out logical indian fb page to see that positive messages are greater than negative ones. 55 000 likes 4000 comments. Most of them positive.
Mumbai or Peshawar, the colour of the blood that flows is the same. - The Logical Indian
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
TS bhai i don’t think this is the place to discuss all these issues. As you know there are number of perspectives.
why does there have to be a love-hate relationship with individuals from a country? You can disagree with the politicians or government policies but not all individuals are the same. I think that last sentence is generalisation. As we know there are good and bad people in all religions. I have heard it on a Pakistani tv show but i don’t think it is fair not only to all Indian Hindus but also to Pakistani Hindus. Many Pakistani Hindus help candlelight vigil yesterday in Karachi.
In India..
Not sure what will happen to the blood here but i think they are doing it in solidarity.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
I know what you are talking about and I don’t support those speeches for votes. So instead i’d like to focus on these initiatives.
I know you said there were lot of negatives you read online. I have seen that also on both sides.
Instead i hope the following images helps your mood a little showing majority sentiment.
These are not before posted pictures.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
As I already said I do appreciate kind words, but if these kind words follow blames within no time, then also we got blames. So better be away then coming with condolence coupled with blames. We have a tragedy at our home and if at all there is a need for blame game then it should be from our side for the time being (not that I'm a supporter of blame game, as you might be aware) and let the Pakistanis handle it with sound mind (we are already doing it). Intervention from India will not earn them anything at this point of time, except converting public views against them.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
I agree with your first paragraph. You have understood what I have tried to communicate.
I also agree that among Indians there are lots of people expressing GENUINE and Heartfelt condolences. I was simply stating that the OP here and those who came along to provide PATRONIZING ADVICE were out of line. Their posts struck the same note as the 3 posts I mentioned. Hence I provided that example. That doesn’t mean MOST Indians engage in such conduct. It simply means the conduct displayed here is typically displayed by those with an agenda - to mix politics with a human tragedy. And say I told you so.
while 3 posts is a small data set, the fact that there was no dissenting opinion among about 15 comments total does indicate humans, even decent ones, go with the flow. There was a total of 30 likes. With no dissenting comments. All 15 comments (5 per post approximately) were in agreement.
Again this is NOT a reflection of Indians in general. Simply calling out the handful here. And providing context to their posts.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
when it comes to Indo-Pak relations, every effort is made half halfheartedly, pursued lightly and in the end it produce mediocre results
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
when it comes to Indo-Pak relations, every effort is made half halfheartedly, pursued lightly and in the end it produce mediocre results
You think so? Not always at least amongst the public. I felt these messages were full hearted and i am sure will be reciprocated in future. People don't have any expectations because they think nothing will change. That is the main problem.
I did not see same outpouring of emotion when beslan school massacre happened in russia and 160 children died. So obviously there is something there, some connection that makes us see more response when tragedy hits Pakistan compared to elsewhere.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
You think so? Not always at least amongst the public. I felt these messages were full hearted and i am sure will be reciprocated in future. People don't have any expectations because they think nothing will change. That is the main problem. I did not see same outpouring of emotion when beslan school massacre happened in russia and 160 children died. So obviously there is something there, some connection that makes us see more response when tragedy hits Pakistan compared to elsewhere.
Public have their one day, ie polling day, after that it is government and their party worker's days :)
So I was talking in Government terms :)
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
I am a bit concerned ... whether India were involved or not ... somebody high up in Pakistani elite must think they were ... why else the release of Saeed?
The children belonged to the army first and second to the Pakistani public and Musharraf and Hamid are army people ... surely they will be interested in finding the instigators of this more than anyone ... I find it odd that they finger out India ... if in fact the problem lies elsewhere they will be more than eager to do it properly ... I prefer to keep India out of this matter ... what could have caused them to be so presumptuous? If that is what they were doing ...
well there are only two possibilities - either they (musharaf, zaid hameed and hafeez) believe that India had a role OR they know that is not the case but find it expedient to blame India. Their history shows them as very successful manipulators with no qualms about twisting facts to their desired ends.
I don't think it is possible for these three to accept that there is no good taleban.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
just read umar mansoor was the mastermind behind this massacre. so it finished high school in Islamabad and then went to a madarassa. will someone as musharaf, zaid hamid and hafis saeed why they jumped on India instead of this guy, his Islamabad high school and his madrassa?
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
sorry, I'm not in any mood to burst your bubble, when you know what I was talking about.
.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
As I already said I do appreciate kind words, but if these kind words follow blames within no time, then also we got blames. So better be away then coming with condolence coupled with blames. We have a tragedy at our home and if at all there is a need for blame game then it should be from our side for the time being (not that I'm a supporter of blame game, as you might be aware) and let the Pakistanis handle it with sound mind (we are already doing it). Intervention from India will not earn them anything at this point of time, except converting public views against them.
I agree there should be no blame game and hopefully what i posted showed just condolences/sharing grief. It is up to Pakistani people to decide how to tackle all the issues. The conspiracy theory people like Hafiz Saeed can be talked about later.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
^ the "conspiracy theory people" are being ridiculed by Pakistanis. No need for people from across the border pointing out the obvious.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
I know but what about if one comes across people who do not ridicule them and seriously believe them and there are no Pakistanis to counter this point of view. Can’t it be pointed out that most Pakistani people don’t believe that, there is no evidence and their views are not with mainstream. This is just clarifying known facts.
Where outsiders can help is support those making difference for change when they ask for help. My Pakistani friends posted this after protestors were harassed at the Lal Masjd protest. The guy who organised the protest Mr Nasir also reported on students from Madrassas coming to support the protest to arrest Abdul Aziz.
My Pakistani friend who is with protestors published this on facebook.
I am sorry to tell you this news but rather than taking action against terrorist Taliban the SP Asmat Ullah Junejo of Aabpara police station has registered FIR against innocent civil society protesters who were protesting against Taliban at LAL masjid (known as taliban recruitment centre).
I request all my British, European and American friends to call Aabpara police station at number 0092519204830 register your protest and also ask them whether Pakistani police stands with Pakistan or Taliban.
**Guys please it will only take 5 mins and it will send a message to Taliban sympathiser police officers that humanity won’t sit silence on their crimes. The friends in UK can we also e-mail our MPs and get them involved. Remember we are not doing this just for Pakistan but for whole of humanity.
**This is the right number a journalist friend of mine just spoke to police they denied FIR but its confirmed that they have arrested 6 activists. 051 9204830
**I love you all humans.
**
Apparently they got many calls from within and abroad, the news reached mainstream and the protesters were released.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
Don’t know the answer to that but maybe others can answer. The spokesperson for Lal Masjid after great pressure by the awesome Lal Masjid protests finally condemned the incident and blamed India and Israel. Here in Australia they had an article on him. I don’t understand what motivation can be for such an inhuman attack.
The protest against extremists and conspiracy theorists like Abdul Aziz is something we can support. The article mentioned a Pakistani hindu by names of Kapil Dev who was at the Lal Masjid protests. actually great to see that organisers of this protest were supportive and accomodating of people of all backgrounds from students at madrassas and religious minorities. 
Maulana Abdul Aziz feels the heat
**The protest was organised by Jibran Nasir, a rights activist who hails from Karachi. The protesters started gathering outside Lal Masjid at 6 p.m. They shouted slogans against Maulana Aziz and lit up candles in memory of the school children, who were brutally murdered by the Taliban militants.
“Today we have reclaimed G-6 sector from the clutches of Red Mosque. This protest indicates that liberal forces too have the right to disagree with the ideology of Maulana Abdul Aziz,” said Kapil Dev, one of the protesters. “Let them (religious students) shoot me dead. Being a Hindu, I will continue my voice for the innocent students of Peshawar.”
“Abdul Aziz is still a sympathiser of Taliban,”Jibran Nasir, who had contested election in NA-250 Karachi as independent candidate against PTI leader Arif Alvi, said while addressing the charged crowd.
The protesters shouted in support and condemned the cleric. Soon, the students of the seminary emerged and both groups started exchanging hot words.
A heavy contingent of police and elite force reached the venue, followed by Rangers troops.
“We will not leave the venue until we register our protest. We will not let Islamabad taken hostage by students of orthodox religious seminaries,” Jibran said, undeterred.
**“Lal Masjid should openly condemn Taliban otherwise the government should take action against it,” he demanded.
Police cave in to demos: Mullah Abdul Aziz booked for criminal intimidation | Guppu.com Adul Aziz threatened violence against protestors.
Protestors were arrested but then soon released.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
Re your first para - the answer is a no brainer. Of course set the record straight.
But why would you raise this hypothetical situation for which the answer is obvious. I have by now stated multiple times that those from across the border who are advising Pakistanis in THIS thread are out of line. So I don’t get your point.
Now, if over here, people started throwing such accusations at India, those posters would be justified bringing it up. And offering advice. The reality is opposite.
I am surprised you are having trouble grasping this simple concept. Muqawwe has explained it better than I can.
Re: Peshawar attack scares the hell out of the likes of Hafiz Saeed, Musharraf
Re your first para - the answer is a no brainer. Of course set the record straight.
But why would you raise this hypothetical situation for which the answer is obvious. I have by now stated multiple times that those from across the border who are advising Pakistanis in THIS thread are out of line. So I don't get your point.
Now, if over here, people started throwing such accusations at India, those posters would be justified bringing it up. And offering advice. The reality is opposite.
I am surprised you are having trouble grasping this simple concept. Muqawwe has explained it better than I can.
I am not talking about the forum here but other places in social media where I am active..and sometimes there are apologists who respond with this when i post pictures of vigils with no blame game involved. Did i say it occurred on GS or on this thread? The point is there is a larger online world and i was talking of those instances where there is a chance to change mind of some conspiracy theorists. I have not referenced THIS thread have i.
I would appreciate it Southie Uncle if you do not unintentionally have misconceptions about my comments. You know I have spoken out against people generalising the Pakistani public's response to this and i have spoken out against people misinterpreting Muqa bhai's intentions on the RSS thread. I have many Pakistani friends elsewhere online and some who are involved with these Lal Masjid protests and those supporting it. Neither do they mind me refuting these people in the minority. The conspiracy theorists are definitely far in the minority. The only reason i try to set the record straight is because I want people to know that intention of many in India is to offer sympathy and share their grievances.
I understood Muqa bhai's point and have agreed with him and I understood your point of view as well.
I completely agree it is not up to us to try to decide how Pakistan will attack this. Neither is it up to us to suggest secularism or non-secularism as the way forward for the Pakistani population. It is up to the people of Pakistan and any movements which want this. Outsiders should basically sit at the sidelines.