Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Hmm so themost populous Muslim country (indonesia) , KSA , Iran and the most secular Muslim state held Eid on the same day but mufti and his supporters are accusing those who didn't celebrate it on sunday as having committed a wrong?
I say disband thhe ruet e hilal committee go with KSA..and if KSA is wrong let it be on their heads.
Hmm so themost populous Muslim country (indonesia) , KSA , Iran and the most secular Muslim state held Eid on the same day but mufti and his supporters are accusing those who didn't celebrate it on sunday as having committed a wrong?
I say disband thhe ruet e hilal committee go with KSA..and if KSA is wrong let it be on their heads.
No No No...If someone is wrong then you should tell them they are wrong and why they are wrong rather then saying ok fine i ll follow you but something happened then you will be responsible. I wonder why Allah has given us aqal!
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
^I thik he is just trying to say that any error (which is always possble despite best intentions) will be on KSA
What type is that? :hmmm: There are 25 tribes in Hazara including Pashtuns.
@Zakk >> Yara, KSA and Indonesia did see the Moon on Saturday. THE MOON WAS VISIBLE THERE. Check this out it has the map for saturday’s sighting: Moonsighting.com. It was not possible to see Moon in Pakistan that day.
Agar aap Kahen bi moon sighting committe bitha dein aur 28 Ramadan ko hi kioun na bitha den to shahdaten to un ke pas bi ayen gi. Hamaray Muhasharay ma har tara ke log hain. Is ka aik hi tareqa ha ke agar aik jaga chand nazar anay ka imkan ho to tab committe bithaye jaye warna in shahadaton ko jhoota jana jaye. Us ke liyae astrological calculations hain jo accurate hain. Is there any problem with this solution?
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Guys no system is 100% perfect and mistakes do happen..but on a day like Eid ideally all Muslims should celebrate on one day. And ultimately if a person or state anywhere has confirmed a moon sighting they should be presumed to be telling the truth on the first instance.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
We the people of NWFP don't follow Maudodiat, Quadianiat , Perveziat or Barelviat. Our Islam is different than you guys. Our religion says if Moon is sighted anywhere in the world then we must celeberate the Eid. You can not force your religious beliefs on Pashtuns. We have every right to cleberate Eid based on our beliefs.
We the people of NWFP don't follow Maudodiat, Quadianiat , Perveziat or Barelviat. Our Islam is different than you guys. Our religion says if Moon is sighted anywhere in the world then we must celeberate the Eid. You can not force your religious beliefs on Pashtuns. We have every right to cleberate Eid based on our beliefs.
you are right. you can celeberate Eid on 1st of Ramdhan if Mullah says it.
You are wonderful people who voted many times for Fazzal ur rehman.
We are your fans
you are right. you can celeberate Eid on 1st of Ramdhan if Mullah says it. You are wonderful people who voted many times for Fazzal ur rehman. We are your fans
We had given Mullahs a chance and they have miserably failed. They will never come again to power. As a matter of fact, all political Mullahs are being eliminated one by one from our region.
just a few points and qustions:-
was the moon shown on geo TV inpakista? did anyone actually see the moon being shown on geo tv? If that was true then of course so many people got it wrong then. i would be really interested in hearing more about this.
we as muslims should try to keep a united eid and one of those ways is by following saudi - of course if they are wrong and others have doubs then i guess we just dont follow them into wrong. im inclined with zakkk on that but then if point 1 is proven to be correct then there needs to be some national debate about what to do next.
the one thing that comes out of this is that its always the pashtuns in the peshawar valley and adjoining areas ie nowshera, mardan, sawabi and some tribal areas which declare early ramadans and eids. why not those from say southern nwfp, or northern nwfp ie chitral, swat?
how can the moon be seen from around peshawar and not gilgit or balochistan? i think cloud cover affects visibility right? not sure of other factors that could? would nt the moon be easier seen from balochistan or higher mountains as some state?
there is a barelvi vs deobandi divide. why dont a mix of people visit the places where they saw the moon sighted and set up camp there. if the higher groud is the best place to seethe moon then why not set up sighting committies in balochistan and nwfp only.
i think a lot of it may not be even to do with sighting the moon butwith people following saudi blindly. this will be demonstrated if the moon was shown on geo tv on sunday.
ps answer pasha - your right - those people must have been very dumb for voting fazul rehman but at least they gave a new party a chance. its eas to ridicule nwfp on the basis that fazul rehman won an election there but the rest of the country has equally zero credibility - voting for PML-N, PML-Q, MQM, ANP, PPP - many times tried and tested politcians and everytime failed.
First of all, there was no possibility that anyone could have seen Moon in NWFP on Saturday. Regardless of they could see the Moon or not, following Saudi Moon-sighting in Pakistan is Islamically inappropriate (even if Saudi have sighted Moon correctly, something they normally do not).
Actually, if the country is large and wide apart than to have several Eid in that country would be most appropriate Islamic act ... just like USA is big country and thus have several time zones within the country... and similarly there are different prayer times for different cities within a country where position of sun could be different even when country is small (and certainly in larger countries).
Actually, when we follow heavenly bodies (Sun or Moon) to determine hour of the day (from sun position) or Lunar months (from Moon position and sighting), we cannot have same time in the day at all places or same starting day for the month at every place... and thus it would be most appropriate that areas follow positions of these heavenly bodies to determine their starting Month and time. When heavenly bodies are made part of religion due to auspiciousness of particular days, months and prayer time (as in Islam ... where start of new month and determining of prayer times accurately is need of religion), this principle becomes more important... else we would be playing with people’s religion, making jokes of Allah’s command by making his command irrelevant, and thus causing many to end up in hell due to their ignorance in following wrong practices blindly against the command of Allah.
I won’t mind if all provinces of Pakistan become independent in celebrating EId, relying on moon-sighting locally, but certainly it would be a sad day for both Muslims and Islam if just for the sake of Unity, Muslims or even Pakistanis decide to change command of Allah and start relying on moon-sighting at faraway places to start Ramadhan and celebrate Eid.
Bro zakk u r absolutely right the govt should disband the ruet e hilal committee.in fact moalana muneeb also belong to the Brailvee Mazhab like moalana tahir ul Qadri and they will never like to go with KSA or deobandi.sight of hilal is just a false excuse.their aim N object are separate then the rest of islamic Uma.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
You need to read Taqi Usmani's statement on the issue.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Moon sighting is religious issue, not a concern of science: expert
Saturday, September 26, 2009
Nisar Mahmood
PESHAWAR: The heated debate on moon-sighting controversy has led to origination of different theories as how to deal with the issue of at least uniting the countrymen to observe the fast or celebrate the Eid on the same day.
Some people argue that the moon sighting should be left to the Metrological Department while the others term it totally a Ruet issue having no concern with the science and technology. The Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee normally relies on the reports of the Met Office, Pakistan Space and Upper Atmosphere Research Commission (Suparco) or other scientific calculations, besides evidence from the general public.
It gives too much weight to the scientific calculations whereas the clerics of Masjid Qasim Ali Khan Committee argue that the evidence of a specific number of people is enough for the purpose. None of the committees could, however, satisfy the faithful and thus Ramazan starts on different days and two or three Eids are celebrated in the country.
Like millions of other Pakistanis, Eng Rifat Parvez has reservations over the arguments being presented by the Central Ruet-e-Hilal Committee, saying: (a) Is it scientifically possible to precisely determine if the birth of moon has occurred or would it be visible by human eye? What are the limitations of science and the limitation of human being? (b) What is the logic of sighting of moon for the commencement of an Islamic month? (c) What are the provisions in Shariah for commencement of Islamic months? (d) Is it possible, or would it be justified to take help from scientific calculations in determination of visibility of moon for commencement of an Islamic month?
To the first question, he says the exact time and visibility of moon’s birth is impossible as science, too, has limitations. “Moon appears almost half a day and disappears during the remaining part of the day. The exact timing of the appearance or disappearance depends on the location and trajectory of the moon. It disappears in some countries, but still available on the other side of the globe. The question is not of the availability of the moon, rather its visibility is essential.”
“To determine visibility of the moon we need two things — either the moon is considered as a complete smooth sphere or we have the exact contour of the moon. But unfortunately both the conditions are non-existent. Neither the moon is a smooth regular sphere, as its surface like our earth is not smooth nor the contours of its surface have been drawn till date.”
To substantiate his claim, Rifat says the limitations of science can be judged from the fact that even today scientists are unable to measure an object absolutely as they have to take the limits up to which their measurements could be correct. “Even today science cannot determine the maximum distance up to which a human being can see a specific object of a certain size. We can generalise, but there are human beings may be .000001 per cent or less who have the God-gifted quality to see a far object which cannot be seen by those having their 6/6 eyesight. It’s just like one can memorise a page or book in an hour, day or a month, but another one by reading it just once,” he says.
Thus, he adds, it is possible that some people see the moon but not the majority. Even toady despite application of a lot of state-of-the-art equipment and research, the weather forecast of the Met Office is not accurate and reliable, then how can they predict appearance or visibility of moon with such a high degree of accuracy.
As for the provisions in Shariah for commencement of moon, Engr Rifat argues, it was specifically mentioned that Shahadat (evidence) of moon is considered as basis for commencement of an Islamic month.
According to Shariah, he argues, there is a requirement of certain number of witnesses according to the circumstances for the sighting of moon and not of its actual appearance. It means that sighting of moon is not a scientific, but purely a Ruet issue and it should be tackled in accordance with Shariah and precedents in the early years of Islam.
“If Shariah would have prescribed the appearance of moon as the basis for commencement of month, then it would have been made binding on the Ruet-e-Hilal Committee not to make announcement until and unless the chairman and members of the committee personally see the moon,” Rifat says, adding, that announcement for observance of the fast and celebrating Eid should be made just after examining the witnesses and their antecedents in the light of Shariah.