Qasim Ali Mosque has announced EID on 20th September. What the ??? Check this International Moon Sighting Research group’s calculations:
Maulana Populzai’s followers are not going to fast when Ramazan hasn’t ended yet. Roza khanay lagay hain yeh log.
Why does it surprise you? They also started fasting a day earlier (cf. All Muslim World, US and UK) than the rest of Pakistan.
Eid is most likely tomorrow here in the UK as well. Don't know for sure as we have yet to break our 29th fast (Pakistan is 4 hours ahead of us..)
Pakistan as always is a day behind the rest of the world...lekin shukr hai iss dafa sirif aik hee din peeche hain :)
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Pata nahee kahan say yeh chand dekh lay tay hain. Jab kahee chand ka dur tak imkan bhi nahee hia.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Like the ammunitions , its kinda in house built ChaNd for them :)
^ You have a point....can't completely deny though that sighting of moon is not done very efficiently by Halal committees in Pakistan.
Why is it that Pakistan is always a day or two behind (forget parts of NWFF esp. those adjoining Afghanistan who always start a day early) the rest of the world. One day is perhaps understandable but two days sometimes!!...That is inexcusable
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
For that you need to have a look at the two links posted above. Then you will understand why Pakistan is always a day behind.
The day when 4th shaban falls is the day when first shawal should fall.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Suppose a man sighting the moon standing on the Mount Everest...is he ahead of the rest of the world?
Why does it surprise you? They also started fasting a day earlier (cf. All Muslim World, US and UK) than the rest of Pakistan.
Eid is most likely tomorrow here in the UK as well. Don't know for sure as we have yet to break our 29th fast (Pakistan is 4 hours ahead of us..)
Pakistan as always is a day behind the rest of the world...lekin shukr hai iss dafa sirif aik hee din peeche hain :)
But its not possible for people in Pakistan to start fasting with Saudi Arabia nor can we celebrate EID with them. Also, Muslims in UK cannot follow the Saudis in moon sighting. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!
But its not possible for people in Pakistan to start fasting with Saudi Arabia nor can we celebrate EID with them. Also, Muslims in UK cannot follow the Saudis in moon sighting. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE!
Agreed but it then begs the Q why do countries like Malaysia and Indonesia who are even more hours ahead of Saudis than us celebrate Eid the same day every year as the rest of the Muslim world
It's only us who seem to be behind everyone-else on this..
Hence I said one day is acceptable to allow for:
but 2 days most certainly isn't. That is where my problem is
First of all, it is lie that most Muslim countries follow Saudi Arabia when starting Ramadhan or celebrating Eid.
Actually, most of the times start of Ramadhan and Eid-day (even Hajj-day) in Saudi Arabia happens on wrong days. Certainly they fight with Allah and are making joke of Allah’s system. Unfortunately many Muslims worship them and care for their words then they worship or care for Allah’s created system.
Anyhow, I am posting two of my post that I posted in another forum. If you will read them, I can hope that you may understand why Pakistan has start of Ramadhan and Eid on much different days than Saudi Arabia. Obviously you can ignore my post as it is long, though I wrote it so that one can understand the truth about moon-sighting if one wants to, and then ponder on the fitna getting created these days.
Post 1: We should know that on judgment day, no one can say that they were doing such and such wrongly because they were following King, so-called religious scholar, or whoever misguided them. Allah would make all responsible of their own beliefs, deeds and acts. Allah will see how much we ourselves tried to find truth, and if we did not then there could be no forgiveness for wrongdoings.
As far as Eid is concerned, same day Eid is unislamic and war against Allah, just like it would be unislamic and war against Allah if Muslims would start performing particular fard salaat all over the world at the same time (according to salaat time in Mecca, Madina, Jaddah or Riyadh). Just like Allah has made salaat timing dependent on heavenly body (sun), Allah has made start of month and end of month dependent on heavenly body (moon). Just like sun rises and set different times at different places with respect to each other (two different places), moon also rises and set different times at different places with respect to each other (two different places).
We should know that Allah has made certain days more important than others and Allah do not change his rules for transgressors. Allah has given us permission that we can start month a day or two later if moon is not sighted for whatever reason (making preceding month = 30 days using calculation), but Allah has not given us permission to start month a day or two earlier. It is also not allowed to fast on last day of Shabaan unless that fast is regular fast for a person (for instance one is fasting every Thursday and last day of Shaban falls on Thursday … I believe there is hadith in Bukhari on this though I do not remember off-hand. … Hadith is something like … not to start fasting before Ramadhan). As for Hajj, that is also fixed (day of Arafat, 9 dhu-al-Hijjah) and even though Allah might accept Hajj on next day if moon sighting was not possible on last day of duh-al-qidah, but certainly Hajj earlier than fixed day is no Hajj.
We should know that as long as there is no moonset, Moon is there in the sky above horizon (on all days before end of month). Anyhow, as long as moonset happens before sunset, we could not sight moon above horizon after sunset (because there is no moon to sight). New lunar month starts when moonset is after sunset and it is above horizon after sunset long enough that it could get sighted. That means, moonset is several minutes after sunset for sighting (for required visibility), normally 15 to 30 minutes after sunset depending on angle and position of moon above the horizon. Unfortunately, many time I have seen that people have started observing Ramadhan, finishing Ramadhan (and even starting Dhu-al-hijjah) a day or two earlier than it is suppose to be (sighting of moon is claimed even when moonset was before sunset). Whatever the reason, but this is certainly undermining the symbols and commands of Allah that to start month after sighting of moon or observing 30 days (that may make particular month start later but could never make a month start earlier).
Anyhow, in the end, lunar months starts separately at separate places (that is obvious when it is mentioned that to start a month after sighting moon and end a month after sighting of moon). I am putting down one hadith regarding this issue:
Sahi Muslim … Book 006, Number 2391: Kuraib reported that Umm Fadl, daughter of Harith, sent him (Fadl, i. e. her son) to Mu’awiya in Syria. I (Fadl) arrived in Syria, and did the needful for her. It was there in Syria that the month of Ramadan commenced. I saw the new moon (of Ramadan) on Friday. I then came back to Medina at the end of the month. Abdullah b. 'Abbas (Allah be pleased with him) asked me (about the new moon of Ramadan) and said: When did you see it? I said.: We saw it on the night of Friday. He said: (Did) you see it yourself? -I said: Yes, and the people also saw it and they observed fast and Mu’awiya also observed fast, whereupon he said: But we saw it on Saturday night. So we would continue to observe fast till we complete thirty (lasts) or we see it (the new moon of Shawwal). I said: Is the sightidg of the moon by Mu’awiya not valid for you? He said: No; this is how the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him) has commanded us. Yahya b. Yahya was in doubt (whether the word used in the narration by Kuraib) was Naktafi or Taktafi.
Above hadith validates the point that different places should start their months (hence Ramadhan and EId) on different days depending on sighting of moon locally. Hadith clearly says that even though moon was sighted in Syria on Friday (so maximum days of Ramadhan = 30 days meant Eid on Monday at most), Abdullah bin Abbas (RA) declined to accept moon sighting of Friday in Syria as moon sighting for Madina too, hence when no moon was sighted in Madina on Sunday, Abdullah bin Abbas (RA) and people of Madina continued observing Ramadhan on Monday to finish 30 days of Ramadhan and according to calculation (max day for a month = 30 days), Eid was observed on Tuesday. Further, Abdullah bin Abbas also said that this is how Prophet (SAW) has commanded … that means, moon sighting has to be local, and cannot be taken as moon sighting if moon sighting is observed at far away place.
Hadith 2: Bukhari: Volume 3, Book 31, Number 130: Narrated Abdullah bin Umar: Allah’s Apostle mentioned Ramadan and said, “Do not fast unless you see the crescent (of Ramadan), and do not give up fasting till you see the crescent (of Shawwal), but if the sky is overcast (if you cannot see it), then act on estimation (i.e. count Sha’ban as 30 days).”
As for Quran: Allah has clearly mentioned that months are important as symbols of Allah and Allah does not like humans to violate that by transposing (changing or rearranging) for their convenience, as such people in front of Allah are unbelievers. According to Quran, unbelievers who do not care about symbols of Allah (that includes when a month starts and when finishes as they are also symbols of Allah), they do transposing (change or rearrange months) to undermine this symbols of Allah.
Before Islam (Yahud even do today), Arabs use to add a month every 3 years or so (bringing lunar years roughly coincide with solar years), so that to rearrange months for their convenience and to make seasons fall in same months. Allah did not like that and considered such acts as acts of unbelievers. Today, it seems that some people are playing with days in month (sometime even starting month before it is due by claiming that moon is sighted even when moonset is before sunset) for whatever reasons undermining the sanctity of months and symbols of Allah (sighting of moon is symbol of Allah to start month). Here are ayahs from Quran:
Surah 5, Ayah 97: YUSUFALI: Allah made the Ka’ba, the Sacred House, an asylum of security for men, as also the Sacred Months, the animals for offerings, and the garlands that mark them: That ye may know that Allah hath knowledge of what is in the heavens and on earth and that Allah is well acquainted with all things.
Surah 5, Ayah 2: YUSUFALI: O ye who believe! Violate not the sanctity of the symbols of Allah, nor of the sacred month, nor of the animals brought for sacrifice, nor the garlands that mark out such animals, nor the people resorting to the sacred house, seeking of the bounty and good pleasure of their Lord. But when ye are clear of the sacred precincts and of pilgrim garb, ye may hunt and let not the hatred of some people in (once) shutting you out of the Sacred Mosque lead you to transgression (and hostility on your part). Help ye one another in righteousness and piety, but help ye not one another in sin and rancour: fear Allah: for Allah is strict in punishment.
Surah 9, Ayah 37: YUSUFALI: Verily the transposing (of a prohibited month) is an addition to Unbelief: the Unbelievers are led to wrong thereby: for they make it lawful one year, and forbidden another year, in order to adjust the number of months forbidden by Allah and make such forbidden ones lawful. The evil of their course seems pleasing to them. But Allah guideth not those who reject Faith.
From above ayahs it is clear that months are symbols of Allah, that starts and ends with symbols of Allah (sighting of moon), and only unbelievers would not respect the symbols of Allah, changing days according to their liking.
Post 2 (NWFP related Fitna): Even though Saturday would be 28th day of Ramadhan in Pakistan, still there would be some Khwarjees in Peshawar and Mardan who would try to create fitna, would fight laws of Allah, would fight Islamic teachings, and would try to declare that moon got sighted on Saturday (19th Sept 2009). We should remember that just like world knows where sun is present at particular time and when there is sun set at particular places on earth, world also knows where there is moon at particular time and when there would be moonset at particular place on earth. World also knows that how much moon would get illuminated after sunset on any particular day, and that if moon sighting is possible on particular day or not.
As for Peshawar and Mardan (where I believe fitna would arise), here are time for sunset and moonset on Saturday, and that if moon can be sighted on Saturday or not.
Welcome to Weather Underground : Weather Underground
Peshawar (on saturday):
Sunset time: 6.14 PM
Moonset time: 6.17 PM
Illumination of moon: 0 percent
Hence possibility that moon can be sighted: 0 percent
Mardan (saturday):
Sunset time: 6.13 PM
Moonset time: 6.15 PM
Illumination of moon: 0 percent
Hence possibility that moon can be sighted: 0 percent
As moon set after the sunset in south is longest, most likely places in Pakistan where moon can be sighted earliest would be south most part of Pakistan. Hence … Let see if moon can be sighted in Karachi … or even Thatta (south of Karachi):
Karachi (saturday):
Sunset time: 6.31 PM
Moonset time: 6.41 PM
Illumination of moon: 0 percent
Hence possibility that moon can be sighted: 0 percent
Thatta (saturday):
Sunset time: 6.28 PM
Moonset time: 6.38 PM
Illumination of moon: 0 percent
Hence possibility that moon can be sighted: 0 percent
So, there is no chance that moon can be sighted in Pakistan on Saturday and thus Eid could not be on Sunday anywhere in Pakistan (actually, sicne Saturday would be 28th of Ramadhan in Pakistan, anyone even think of sighting moon on Saturday is doing fitna.
[Note: longer the period difference between moonset after sunset, more likely chance for moon to get sighted].
Anyhow, even though Sunday would be 29th day of Ramadhan in Pakistan, here is timing of moonset and sunset on Sunday.
Karachi (sunday):
Sunset time: 6.30 PM
Moonset time: 7.19 PM
So, a very small part of moon will get illuminated and sighting of moon is remotely possible, but very difficult.
Thatta (sunday):
Sunset time: 6.30 PM
Moonset time: 6.19 PM
So, a very small part of moon will get illuminated and sighting of moon is remotely possible, but very difficult.
Hence, even though there is no guarantee, the earliest chance of Eid in Pakistan is on Monday 21st September, else on Tuesday 22nd September. I believe that since Pakistan uses all sort of aid to sight moon, there is reasonable possibility that Eid in Pakistan would be on Monday, though I would not be surprised if Eid in Pakistan would be on Tuesday … and since according to Islam if moon is not sighted on 29th of the month for whatever reason, Tuesday Eid in Pakistan would be fine too … though in no way there could be Eid in Pakistan on Sunday.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
KSA claims sighting and announce Eid tomorrow followed by other gulf states. Regents Park in London is also following KSA tomorrow as well as NWFP people in Pakistan.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
^ Thanks Mostar
Saleem: Thanks for an exhaustive essay!
I actually agreed with thread starter (and I agree with you on this too) that we should not blindly be following the Saudis. But in reality most mosques in the UK and US follow what the Arab World esp. the Saudis are doing since they do not have all the means (or so they claim) of reliably sighting the moon
Mostar's post (#12) just confirms that
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Wimbledon, Tooting and Balham mosques yet to announce it. They are likely to do it on Monday.
Re: Peshawar: Announcement of EID on 20, September.
Well they have also announced Eid tomorrow. So it seems be a unity this year as far as South London concerns. Eid mubarak to all.
Brother, I know that many following Saudi Arabia might celebrate Eid tomorrow (Sunday) in UK (and places in Europe), but fact is that these people are only making joke of Islam and fighting Allah and system of Allah, because it is IMPOSSIBLE to sight Moon today (Saturday) in UK or Europe, because there would be no Moon to sight in sky after Sunset as Moonset today (Saturday) is well before Sunset. Here is time of Moonset and Sunset in London on Saturday (19th Sept 2009):
Welcome to Weather Underground : Weather Underground
Sunset: 7.06 PM
Moonset: 6.51 PM
Even sighting of Moon on Sunday (20th Sept 2009) in UK is almost impossible (if not completely impossible). This is the timing of Moonset and Sunset on Sunday.
Sunset: 7.04 PM
Moonset: 7.09 PM
Another site that can give possible moon sighting areas in world on Saturday is:
Moonsighting.com
Anyhow, from position of Moon, the earliest Eid for Europe and UK should be on Monday, but in reality it should be on Tuesday (that is different matter that people for whom Nizam of Allah is not important but Kings and their spokesmen in Mosque is important, they might celebrate Eid any day these worldly Masters would tell them to celebrate).
[Note: It is possible that moon is there in sky (Moonset is after Sunset) but cannot be sighted due to whatever reasons, something Islam also recognises, but it is impossible that Moon can be sighted if Moonset is before sunset]
Thanks esp. for the last note. I honestly feel I learnt something there
You wouldn’t ask that question if you could have just moved your mouse over the link in the first post and left clicked it.
Saudis living abroad prefer to follow Saudi Arabia in this regard and thus Pakistanis and Hindustani Muslims just don’t wanna divide the Muslim community.