Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

[Naabigh]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@Milly

This image right here is what is scary.

What kind of school do they do to and what exactly are they learning?

This aint a school uniform - pictures are taken in a private basant party at a private residence in Lahore…

Just out of ignorance and to prove her point - the op had stick it up with other pictures

IT IS IRONIC TO SEE PEOPLE CLAIMING TO KNOW ALL ABOUT PAKISTANI CULTURE - WHEN THEY KNOW JACK !

[goddamniamsoawesome]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

If you don't know what you're talking about, you probably shouldn't talk about it.

Its a simple rule everyone should follow.

What a retarded thread.

[bebo]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

School uniforms usually are appropriate and representative of the micro culture of its attendees.

[NomiCA]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

School uniforms usually are appropriate and representative of the micro culture of its attendees.

as long as its not shalwar qameez/chaadar/scarf :)

[hareem01]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

There is nothing wrong with those values. This "fear of the chador" which initiates such threads is probably absolutely absent in these young girls whose uniform is inclusive of a chador. For them, it is just headgear. And it does not take away from childhood.

What it DOES do, is ingrain proper dressing sense in them from the beginning. It removes the "fear" of the hijaab. I'd happily send my daughter to such a school.

Very well said.

[soconfused]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@Deeba1234

Those who mentioned stopping your daughters wearing tank tops etc. at a young age, do you apply that at home as well?

I don’t have kids of my own but I would. And my parents did, as well. Not blatantly, I mean I COULD theoretically wear tanks and shorts at home but because I got used to covering myself up when I was young, I choose not to even when I’m at home. Even at all girls things, I tend to wear what I would wear to mixed gatherings, for the most part (of course, I’m a bit more lenient with neckline/sleeves)

@Milly

This image right here is what is scary.

What kind of school do they do to and what exactly are they learning?

this isn’t a school uniform.

[Mabrook]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

over here i don't mind my daughter wearing skirt as she can always pair it up with tights or leggings. which she does mostly while going to school r even outside but in pak where its hot and u can't cover up legs and people give girls dirty looks i won't be comfortable.
as for swim suits, better options are now available. i recently bought her a swimsuit from pak which covers thighs and has a flowy skirt. as she grows older i might teach her more ways to keep modest. i personally believe that muslim girls should look modest while still being modern.

[Doppleganger]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

Wouldn't a skirt drag in the pool and even get caught in something? I think a full swimsuit with leggings? might be a better option.

[Pepsi_ki_Botal]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

I think it's sexist to make girls wear skirts. Why can't they wear trousers like the boys? You can't ride a bike, climb trees, do cartwheels in a skirt.

Even though I never had to wear one, I'm all for imposing uniforms on pre- college kids. If I had my way I'd continue the uniform into college, but I worry I won't be able to physically tackle and dress them at that age.

I ain't raising consumerist monkeys. I refuse to pay for Disney clothes in elementary/middle school only to worry about adult designer wear as they grow older. They should be thankful they're even getting an education while millions of kids never see the inside of a school. Ungrateful wretches!

this.

and i'd rather see my daughter in a shalwar kameez than a creepy little bathing suit out there for the world to see when she has no knowledge of what sorta people exist :) [when she grows up, it's her choice...but as a parent it's one duty to attempt to instill these values so once the kid grows up they can make the right choice]

also, can you please explain how chadOr style dupattas are oppression in an educational setting in pakistan? and why do they make you sad? You cannot be comparing them to little girls in makeup/expensive clothes and perfect hair in school?

If we apply common sense alone, we realize that the clothes those little girls attend school in are just reflective of the culture and perhaps religion. I think it maintains their innocence and gives them a sense of identity, if utilized properly.

[Pepsi_ki_Botal]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@M_was_here

But still, why cant they be schooled on confidence rather than treated like women who need to do purda and be covered to such degrees? Of course not even the rural schools have these kinds of enforcements and often the chador comes from the parents, but still. I find it sad.

arrite, iv never advocated that anyone do purdah. BUT, what are you saying?

Do you realize that schooling and education varies? Their idea of education is different. Lets be happy that these parents dress their daughters, take pride in them, and send them to school every morning

how do you “treat” someone like they need to do purdah? It’s part of their daily lives. I’m not getting into the right or wrong of it, that’s a separate issue.

confidence–our concept of it is different. Also, irrelevant comparison. I call a fallacy i don’t even know where to start with this one…

[KKF]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

in India, almost ALL schools have shalwar qameez and DupaTTaa as their uniforms while MOST 'English Medium' private schools have skirt [up to the knees] with half/full sleeves shirts. liberal Muslim girls in the missionary and non-missionary 'English medium' Private schools wear knee length skirts with long socks and FULL sleeve shirts. those very religious Muslim families do NOT send their daughters to such schools where their Islamic dress-codes could be compromised.

[chaibiskut]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

I just have a problem with the overtly woman-fying the little girls. Why cant they wear dresses/trousers/shalawar kameez without having to cover their heads in oversized chadors? Why cant they just run around and be kids and not have to worry about adjusting their chadors and having the freedom to not think about "male nazars" and all that? They can wear chadors or cover their heads when they hit puberty if that is what they decide, why do they have to worry about such things at such a young age? Now I know schools in Pakistan do not have a head-covering policy except the Islamic ones and these restrictions are usually in the rural/Northern schools BUT still.

The above would've made for a better point and a less tangential thread. The added issue of skirts and swimsuits has people conflating the issue of teaching modesty with the broader point of not sexualizing little girls - i.e. prematurely catapulting children into womanhood and sexual maturity (whether that's leaving no skin/hair uncovered or channeling a midget Britney Spears. Both extremes have psychological consequences). With regards to the above quote, I agree. With kids already hitting puberty earlier than ever, 3 - 8 year olds shouldn't have to worry about constantly drawing dupattas over their chests and heads. Besides, if they're already dressed in shalwar kameez with a little clipped-on stole in observance of the national costume, they can concentrate on their books and play freely during break. Castigating children over exposed strands of hair mars their childhood and has no religious basis.

That said, if the issue concerns Northern/tribal area schools, chadors are the least of your problems if you happen to be a girl child. With already low female percentages of school attendance, if wearing a chador means the patriarchs of your family will allow you to get a basic education before marrying you off in your mid-teens, you take what you can get. Trying to 'liberate' women from the chador when they don't have basic rights to education, health, and life itself inadvertently trivializes bigger injustices.

[M_was_here]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@Naabigh

This aint a school uniform - pictures are taken in a private basant party at a private residence in Lahore…

Just out of ignorance and to prove her point - the op had stick it up with other pictures

IT IS IRONIC TO SEE PEOPLE CLAIMING TO KNOW ALL ABOUT PAKISTANI CULTURE - WHEN THEY KNOW JACK !

Are you kidding me? Seriously? I know one of the girls that was in these photos when they got put all over. This was on a field trip from school to some rural hindu village and they had been celebrating Holi, so clearly you’re the one who doesn’t know jack. lol@ you making up facts about it being a private residence party. :halo:

@goddamniamsoawesome

If you don’t know what you’re talking about, you probably shouldn’t talk about it. Its a simple rule everyone should follow. What a retarded thread.

What the hell? How do I not know what I’m talking about? Lame.

[M_was_here]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@Khalil KhaaN FaaKhta

in India, almost ALL schools have shalwar qameez and DupaTTaa as their uniforms while MOST ‘English Medium’ private schools have skirt [up to the knees] with half/full sleeves shirts. liberal Muslim girls in the missionary and non-missionary ‘English medium’ Private schools wear knee length skirts with long socks and FULL sleeve shirts. those very religious Muslim families do NOT send their daughters to such schools where their Islamic dress-codes could be compromised.

That is very interesting to know. It’s pretty much the same way in Pakistan as well, although there aren’t that many schools which have skirts as uniforms for older girls. Another interesting uniform in Pakistan is the sari at the Army Medical College which I find really elegant.

@chaibiskut

The above would’ve made for a better point and a less tangential thread. The added issue of skirts and swimsuits has people conflating the issue of teaching modesty with the broader point of not sexualizing little girls - i.e. prematurely catapulting children into womanhood and sexual maturity (whether that’s leaving no skin/hair uncovered or channeling a midget Britney Spears. Both extremes have psychological consequences). With regards to the above quote, I agree. With kids already hitting puberty earlier than ever, 3 - 8 year olds shouldn’t have to worry about constantly drawing dupattas over their chests and heads. Besides, if they’re already dressed in shalwar kameez with a little clipped-on stole in observance of the national costume, they can concentrate on their books and play freely during break. Castigating children over exposed strands of hair mars their childhood and has no religious basis.

That said, if the issue concerns Northern/tribal area schools, chadors are the least of your problems if you happen to be a girl child. With already low female percentages of school attendance, if wearing a chador means the patriarchs of your family will allow you to get a basic education before marrying you off in your mid-teens, you take what you can get. Trying to ‘liberate’ women from the chador when they don’t have basic rights to education, health, and life itself inadvertently trivializes bigger injustices.

Okay, I agree. I could have articulated myself better but you worded exactly the point I was trying to get across along with mentioning one very important thing which I should have thought about also, “Trying to ‘liberate’ women from the chador when they don’t have basic rights to education, health, and life itself inadvertently trivializes bigger injustices”. :k:

[Mabrook]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

Wouldn't a skirt drag in the pool and even get caught in something? I think a full swimsuit with leggings? might be a better option.

the full legging swim wears are mostly body fitted making body shape prominent.i like skirt one better.it looks more modest and its safe.

[Naabigh]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@M_was_here

Are you kidding me? Seriously? I know one of the girls that was in these photos when they got put all over. This was on a field trip from school to some rural hindu village and they had been celebrating Holi, so clearly you’re the one who doesn’t know jack. lol@ you making up facts about it being a private residence party. :halo:.

Rural hindu village in Punjab ? when you know it all - then kindly share the location name please:)

And I am still holding my statement that this isnt a school uniform - as you don’t see a school monogram on it !

[M_was_here]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

^They were required to wear a white shalwar kameez as was the requirement per the school. And why is that so far-fetched? You failed at making your point. :halo:

[goddamniamsoawesome]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@M_was_here

What the hell? How do I not know what I'm talking about? Lame.

I just think its not as widespread of an issue as you're putting it out it to be.
It might be true in certain areas of Pakistan but fringe viewpoints and practices are prevalent in every society in the world.
They have bigger issues to deal with in those areas. Like ChaiBiskut mentioned, basic education is lacking and you're worried about Chadors?

Before you start knocking on such societies and cultures for 'overly woman-ifying' young girls, you should understand that it probably doesn't even register in their minds and if it does, they have much more to worry about than just that.
And you're not going to change culture by taking on a fringe practice and saying that Pakistan is guilty of the same.
You're not going to be able to change the view points of people who do practice and enforce this because they're simply too separated from mainstream society, culture and that includes geographic separation.

Tell me the last time you were in any major (Or just a city city) for that matter where you saw little girls worrying about their Chadors?
Pakistan is HUGE and what you see from across the pond isn't always what you get.
Hell I don't even live in Pakistan and I know that much.

There are plenty of people making headway when it comes to tackling sexism and prejudice in Pakistan. Do what you can to help them.

[Naabigh]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

@M_was_here

^They were required to wear a white shalwar kameez as was the requirement per the school. And why is that so far-fetched? You failed at making your point. :halo:

Read your own signature genius

[payal_sharma]

Re: Parents of daughters: School Uniforms & Modesty

[http://contestant-point.blogspot.com/2011/03/pakistani-girls-holi.html

h](http://contestant-point.blogspot.com/2011/03/pakistani-girls-holi.html)ere u can see more pics of the same girls where in it shows tht the outfits are for a holi trip. Now whether they are Indian or Paki girls is debatable !!

Usually when people celebrate holi, they tend u wear white or light colored clothes. I wear salwars like these every year on holi !!