Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
ABC reported that cheney gave proof of this guy's location and said arrest him or US will do the job.
Right, so that explains why his arrest coincided with VPs visit. End of discussion.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
Few days, Newsweek's Richard Wolfe appeared on Oddball w/Keith Olbermann and implied that Mush is dragging his feet. He also mentioned that Benazir claims that opposition from religous parties is a farce concocted by Mush.
If the rumors are true and the number of miscreants crossing and finding safe haven in Pakistan is rising, Mush got two immeidate problems:
a. maintaining law order in Pakistan and keeping the country from spiralling into a chaos of violence and lawlessness.
b. defending the country's territorial integrity.
I see very tough times ahead for Pakistan.
Doesnt matter what the US media think. It's what the US government think that's more important. US media, Paki media, both write what they want, both like to criticize Musharraf funnily enough. Personally i'd like to see the Paki media less free because they're open to being bought off.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
Americans have their own interests, but our interests are nothing but trying to deceive everyone and that too so amateurishly. Not everyone in the world is a fool. Pakistanis love to blame the media about why our image is so bad around the world, but it's not the media's fault, it's based on reality that the media takes and magnifies. We have to change the reality of our dishonest, double crossing, and lying generals. Until that happens, the army deserves all the bad publicity they get. Unfortunately, Pakistan's name also gets dragged down because of this incompetent army.
I suspect there are many elements in the army who believe that Karzai and the West will fail in Afg and they believe it's simply a matter of time. The dangerous aspect of having such a (for a lack of better term) permissible border is that anyone can infiltrate and wreak havoc in the country. CIA. Mosad. RAW. You name it. Heck, they are probably already operating inside Pakistan. New Yorker had an article about Pesh Merga (Kurd) and Mosad conducting operations inside eye-ran.
Pakistan had a terrible experience with Afg during russo-afg war -- drugs, weapons. When are we going to learn?
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
Oh yeah, it was Bhutto and civilian rulers that fought (and beat) the Indians in '65 on the battlefield. some enemy of Pakistan, wasnt it! East Pakistan makes for an interesting discussion. Care to discuss it in another thread? I think West Pakistan was very fair in its handling of East Pakistan up till seperation.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
[quote]
US media, Paki media, both write what they want, both like to criticize Musharraf funnily enough. Personally i'd like to see the Paki media less free because they're open to being bought off.
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Media should be free to say what they want. When media is silenced like it was in the US, it leads to epic mistakes like eye-rack.
Re: US Forces Pursue Taliban into Pakistan
No problems.
Do you deny that Taliban from Afghanistan are either entering into Pakistani territory or as your newspiece says US Forces are pursuing them into Pakistan?
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
The US government does use the media for its own purposes. However, what the US media says, and what the US government thinks are not always the same thing. The interests of either are not the same. US government clearly are not true allies of Pakistan IMO, but they also dont want to attack it IMO.
[QUOTE]
Media should be free to say what they want. When media is silenced like it was in the US, it leads to epic mistakes like eye-rack.
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Free would be good. But no media is genuinely free. Paki media should at least show Pakistan in a positive light, but some journalists are totally anti Pakistani whilst writing from offices in Islamabad.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
I edited out my comment; I didn't see you had already responded.
I'll elaborate my point: After 9/11, US govt. has used the US media to sell its policies to the public unchecked. Media acquiesced to govt. talking points about eye-rack lest the journalists were excluded from White House access, briefings, or labelled un-patriotic. Journalists like Judy Miller planted false news reports in papers like New York Times that made a case for Bush admins mobile labs, wmds vis-a-vis eye-rack. There were others on talk shows and political commentary shows that were doing the bidding of the govt. Using fear tactics, Bush admin converted the US media into its PA system. It was only after the devastation of hurricane Katrina did the US journalists started showing some backbone and openly questioned and criticized the Bush administration.
[quote]
Free would be good. But no media is genuinely free. Paki media should at least show Pakistan in a positive light, but some journalists are totally anti Pakistani whilst writing from offices in Islamabad.
[/quote]
Reporting unsavory news items about a country is not being 'anti-' country. If those journalists are telling outright lies and fabricating stories to cast the nation in a negative light, they should be taken to task.
Re: Pakistan’s uncanny ability to produce a new arrest …
1965 war was started by the army in the first place by sending in “insurgents” into Kashmir to start a rebellion. We started a war we could not win. The stalemate in 1965 greatly reduced our army’s ability to fight due to loss of weapons, ammunition and sanctions during the war. This was was one of the precursors to the defeat and humiliation in 71. And if by fair you mean not granting Awami League the election they won, then I don’t agree with you and there is not much else to discuss.
Re: Pakistan’s uncanny ability to produce a new arrest…(merged)
More versions; **
‘Act now or let US do it, Musharraf told’**
http://dawn.com/2007/03/05/top1.htm
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
1965 war was started by the army in the first place by sending in "insurgents" into Kashmir to start a rebellion. We started a war we could not win. The stalemate in 1965 greatly reduced our army's ability to fight due to loss of weapons, ammunition and sanctions during the war. This was was one of the precursors to the defeat and humiliation in 71. And if by fair you mean not granting Awami League the election they won, then I don't agree with you and there is not much else to discuss.
Rebellion was going on in Kashmir since Partition. There was no need to send any insurgents to cause a rebellion. It was already going on.
On '71, your wrong IMO. Free and fair elections were held and Awami League did win. However, they wanted to split Pakistan up into autonomous and independent provinces. This was the gripe that Yahya Khan had with Bonglabobo. In fact, the night before the war took place, Yahya Khan was in Dhakka trying to persuade the idiot to take office, but not to split up the federation in the process. Bonglabobo's actions were not only illegal (contavening the Legal Framework Order), had he come to office he would have greatly weakened Pakistan of today. Forget about East Pakistan, West Pakistan split into 5 areas would be a Western armchair warrior's wet dream. The third and most important point why he wasnt allowed to come to power was his confused and stupid policy that he proposed in his six points: something along the lines of a common foreign policy but independent economies. There's no way you can effectively run autonomous countries like this. I'll leave you with this thought. Prior to '71, Bangladeshis were allowed to rule Pakistan the most number of times (more than any other ethnic group) as prime ministers or presidents (and I believe that Bangladeshis occupied the role of prime minister more than any other ethnic group prior to '71).
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
. Prior to '71, Bangladeshis were allowed to rule Pakistan the most number of times (more than any other ethnic group) as prime ministers or presidents (and I believe that Bangladeshis occupied the role of prime minister more than any other ethnic group prior to '71).
roadrunner, my pre 80's pak history is very weak. could you explain this a little.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest ...
roadrunner, my pre 80's pak history is very weak. could you explain this a little.
Sure, there were several Bangladeshi prime minsters who led Pakistan pre 1971. Iskendar Mirza was one, there were another two. If you count up the number of years each Pakistani ethnic group led Pakistan, excluding Ayub Khan's martial law, the one that led Pakistan for most years were the Bangladeshis. Ayub Khan of course took over under Martial law, but he increased economic quotas for the Bangladeshis more so than any Bangladeshi leader. Politically, elections were done in Pakistan (when they were held) on a population basis. Because the Bangladeshis had half the population of Pakistan, they were given half the seats to contest. That was a very fair way of doing it. The elections when they were held were free and fair. The problem arose because of the short sightedness of Bhutto and Yahya..they should have known they were dealing with a treacherous power hungry traitors, and should have never allowed him to contest the elections..in fact it was illegal for him to do so under the Legal Framework Order, but they couldnt turn him away once he had won it.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
thanks dude. intersting perspective, one that I have not read much though.
so when you say mujeeb could not have contested elections inder the LFO, why was that?
PS: sorry if I bore you with my questions, its just a topic I dont know much about so is of interest to me
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
thanks dude. intersting perspective, one that I have not read much though. so when you say mujeeb could not have contested elections inder the LFO, why was that?
PS: sorry if I bore you with my questions, its just a topic I dont know much about so is of interest to me
Ask as many questions as you like. Most Pakistanis I know are completely dunced about this important period, usually give into all the propaganda.
Here is a quote from the Legal Framwork Order under which all the participants of the elections had to abide.
The 'fundamental principles' in the Legal Framework Order proclaimed that 'Pakistan shall be so united in a federation that the independence, the territorial integrity and the national solidarity of Pakistan are ensured, and that the unity of the federation is not in any way impaired.'[17].
That was the Legal Framework Order. See how this differs from the 6 point plan of Bangobongo - proposed that Pakistan be split up so that each province got maximal autonomy and the central government only had power over the external foreign policy of each province. A very stupid plan that the planners such as Bhutto and Yahya naively allowed to compete in the elections because they thought noone would be stupid enough to vote for someone who proposed to split Pakistan up, and then share a common foreign policy for each of the parts. Either way, it was illegal, but he could have still taken charge of Pakistan if he didnt insist on breaking it up into 6 provinces.
Ask your q's, I'll get back to them. I might start a topic on this, it's pretty interesting like you say.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
Thanks Roadrunner. Very informative posts.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
roadrunner yah this deserves a post on its own, i think we can all learn from it.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
Pakistan doesnt fear America sometimes u goota play smart but our stupid nation will never understand it cuz we have a bunch of idiots sitting on the coptuer who think they can better run the country.
Re: Pakistan’s uncanny ability to produce a new arrest …
This would be a good time to read up on Operation Gibraltar and Grand Slam. This was a failed insurrection by Pakistani troops that led to the 65 war.
http://www.defencejournal.com/2000/sept/grand-slam.htm
If majority of Pakistanis (Bengalis in this case) wanted to bring Pakistan back to the ideals of 1940 resolution, then it was their right. In fact, we would not be having this talk of rebellion in Balochistan right now or resentment in other provinces if this had been the case.
The people living in present day Pakistan agreed to join Pakistan based on prior agreements and understandings and a desire to safeguard their rights. They did not agree to give up their souls to the military junta or political-feudal establishment.
The end result is that we suffered a humiliating defeat and had to surrender and lose half of our country because we are not willing to acquiescence to the wishes of the majority.
Re: Pakistan's uncanny ability to produce a new arrest...& Fear America...(merged)
LFO 1970 was itself imposed illegally by a military general.