read my post again, nowhere do i support their argument just as i dont support you peoples argument. two sides of the same coins. u guys can go kill each other for all i care.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
It doesn't matter what JI says. The real question that should give us all pause: does the average grunt in the armed forces think they are fighting a worthy cause? Or do they feel like they are being used as pawns in some great game? If the narrative that Pakistan has been sold out to foreign powers runs as deep in the rank and file of the army as it does in civil society, it may well be that even the average soldier doesn't feel like their fallen comrades are martyrs.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
God good. How many of you actually have a democratic bone in your body. Freedom of speech means you can say what you want and deal with the consequences. It doesn't mean you ban political parties.
Its absolutely pathetic you lot live in democratic countries yet have no idea what democracy stands for. You can't just ban political parties because you disagree with what they say.
The JUI and JI are deplorable scum of the earth but in a democracy they have a right to say what they wish and there are consequences for that just like the legal notice.
Consider the JUI and the JI our versions of the tea party.
Well, regardless of Freedom of speech (I don't think there's such a thing in Pakistan), these are elected parties. A sure fire way to start a civil war is to unilaterally start changing the rules once somebody starts acting the fool.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
It doesn't matter what JI says. The real question that should give us all pause: does the average grunt in the armed forces think they are fighting a worthy cause? Or do they feel like they are being used as pawns in some great game? If the narrative that Pakistan has been sold out to foreign powers runs as deep in the rank and file of the army as it does in civil society, it may well be that even the average soldier doesn't feel like their fallen comrades are martyrs.
That is correct. Even two of our most popular political parties doing JUST THAT. Such people are only creating confusion in civil society and army. People are doubting if it is worth to risk their lives fighting extremists. That is the strategy of Taliban apologists and allies.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
That is correct. Even two of our most popular political parties doing JUST THAT. Such people are only creating confusion in civil society and army. People are doubting if it is worth to risk their lives fighting extremists. That is the strategy of Taliban apologists and allies.
The actions of the government don't help one bit. I mean, even something as simple as saying "NO" to America with respect to Raymond Davis would have cast aside doubt. But it seems like when America asks for something, or even takes something, the other political parties bend over backwards to appease them. One doesn't have to be an apologist for the Taliban to suggest that the top brass and long standing political parties (who have a history of loosing wars and bleeding the nation dry) are simply making people fed up. So now the time has come where the top brass wants to put the genie back in the bottle...and even if their intentions are good, nobody will believe them. This problem is not "created" by pro-Taliban parties. They *wish *they had that much influence....
And it's come to this. The worse kind of scumbag murderer are being cast as potentially misunderstood...the "wasn't me...must have been the CIA" defense is working for them.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
God good. How many of you actually have a democratic bone in your body. Freedom of speech means you can say what you want and deal with the consequences. It doesn't mean you ban political parties.
Its absolutely pathetic you lot live in democratic countries yet have no idea what democracy stands for. You can't just ban political parties because you disagree with what they say.
The JUI and JI are deplorable scum of the earth but in a democracy they have a right to say what they wish and there are consequences for that just like the legal notice.
Consider the JUI and the JI our versions of the tea party.
Jamatia student federations in punjab and elsewhere also shouldn't be beating up people if they disagree with them for being non-jamati, communists etc right or the does the rights only are for jamatis?
If you want to go with the freedom of expression route, then at least follow the Prophet's example who forgave people himself who badmouthed him.
**
I assume that you want to disband blasphemy laws as well, right? After all, it is a FREEDOM OF EXPRESSION issue!!!**
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Look at the calibre of some of our lawmakers, a Hafiz no less :smack:
JI’s Salman Butt and PMLN’s Tariq Fazal swearing at each other on Talk show
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
mehr bibi bhot khush nazar arhi thi miss ratings. chawal chawal lol
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Time for America to expand its drone campaign to include JI scumbags.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Maudoodi’s pearls of wisdom
https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/994644_598693196835291_1017736390_n.png
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
liberals ka maunh ko jamaat ka khhon lag gaya hay. 
aik comment per suggesting drones,shameful comment by minority.
will get back later in detail on this,
this was mufti nizams fatwa, include deobandis in your hate list.
This is what some jamati shared on facebook,although i knew about the fatwa but am searching for original fatwa , this dont seem actual copy although wordings are same.
Restored attachments:
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Too bad! taleban have proven to be snakes who can also eat their kids for furthering their political objectives. The religious right has over and over shown on which side they are, terrorist or the victims.
I have never supported Pakistan army's operations in fata (fatwa or not, I don't care). For me the taleban were the victims, but when they started killing innocent people indiscriminately they've lost any benefit of doubt I might have given them in the past.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
what an irony...jo kaam Allah ke haiN vo insaan kar rahe haiN [shahaadat kaa faisla] aur jo insaan ke karne ke kaam [law N order, protection, running the government] the vo Allah par chhoR diye...bahot Khoob! :(
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
I consider those who have given fatwas like the one posted above to be responsible for the deaths of thousands of people during the past 10 years.
Shamzai was not an innocent man, he belonged to JEM which has a lot of blood on its hands. How can those people who bring miseries to others think they themselves will live in peace? In the end he got what he desired for others. Justice done by Allah.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
We don’t need a self-styled mufti (they have only caused division and disputes among the muslims) belonging to a particular sect telling us what’s right and what’s wrong. We have the Holy Quran and the example of The Prophet pbuh to guide us
maudoodi ke pearls of wisdom aur video clip in post #131 par bhi nazar daal lein and then decide if these TTP zalimeen are indeed Takfiri (or Kharijites or whatever you want to call them) or not!
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
All those self styled beacons of peace these days have a lot of blood on their hands, be it Bangladesh (al badr, alshams), Kashmir (JEM, LET and HUM), Iran (Jundullah), Afghanistan (taleban) and Pakistan (TTP, LEJ/ASWJ/SSP etc). The time has come for Pakistanis to finally decide if they want the country be overrun by these blood thirsty fanatics?
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Time for America to expand its drone campaign to include JI scumbags.
may be daisy-cutter all over Pakistan? how about a few nukes, wouldn't that work just fine?
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
There's hypocrisy on both sides of the spectrum which creates confusions amongst the minds of the masses:
Religious Right:
The Americans and Afghans allege that Afghan taleban are supported by Pakistan (army/intelligence) which gains credence when Haqqani's son is murdered in Islamabad and the army has signed peace agreements with those facilitating militants in Afghanistan.
For religious right the taleban being killed in Afghanistan are martyrs where as their benefactors in Pakistan (Pakistan army is not). On the flip side they consider those (TTP) supported by CIA/Afghan intelligence within Pakistan to be martyrs.
*Pakistan Army:
*
If they consider Afghan taleban to be right then whats wrong with TTP in Pakistan? The ideology of militants in both countries is the same after all.
This sums up Pakistan's war on terror.
Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan
Confusing terrorists for martyrs - DAWN.COM
Confusing terrorists for martyrs
The Jamaat-e-Islami never misses an opportunity to be on the wrong side of history. Since its inception, it has acted against the very interests of the people it pretends to serve.
Last week Syed Munawar Hassan, who heads Pakistan’s Jamaat-i-Islami (Jamaat), declared the former head of the Pakistani Taliban, Hakeemullah Mehsud, a martyr. Mehsud reportedly died of a missile fired from an unmanned drone in North Waziristan. The Pakistan Army took serious offense to the statement by Mr. Hassan and found it insulting to the memory of thousands of soldiers who have died fighting militants.
The Jamaat’s long history of being on the wrong side of history started in 1947 when the Jamaat opposed an independent homeland for the Muslims of South Asia. In 1971, it sided with the military in its campaign against the populist insurgency in Bangladesh. Later in 1985, the Jamaat sided with yet another military dictator, General Ziaul Haq, and assisted him in subverting democracy and radicalising the youth to fuel the war against the Soviet Army in Afghanistan. Today, the Jamaat has come in support of the militants who have declared war on Pakistan’s establishment and its civil society. For these reasons, and despite its organisational structure, the Jamaat has failed to win over the imagination of the electorate in either Pakistan or Bangladesh.
The Civil War in Bangladesh resulted in the death of hundreds of thousands. A study published in 2008 in BMJ estimated the death toll at 269,000. The Jamaat-i-Islami in Bangladesh provided recruits for militias who joined the military campaign against the Bengalis by the East Pakistan-dominated Army. The Jamaat was banned in 1971 after Bangladesh gained independence from Pakistan. The Jamaat’s leadership in Bangladesh fled to Pakistan. More recently, the Bangladeshi Supreme Court in August 2013 declared the Jamaat’s registration illegal, thus restricting it from contesting elections in the future.
It is rather surprising to see Pakistan’s army taking a stand against the Jamaat, which has always found a way to support the Army whenever it suspended the constitution or the democratic process. However, given the large number of dead and injured soldiers in the fight against the militants, the army felt compelled to take issue with the Jamaat that declared the former head of the Taliban a martyr. The spokesperson for the armed forces said:
The people of Pakistan, whose loved ones laid down their life while fighting the terrorist, and families of the shuhada of armed forces demand an unconditional apology from Syed Munawar Hassan for hurting their feelings. It is also expected that Jamat-e-Islami should clearly state its party position on the subject.
The Jamaat had an opportunity to lay the blame on Mr. Hassan and absolve itself of any direct responsibility. However, the Jamaat, which appears to be on a collision course with the state and the constitution for decades, yet again opted for collision rather than collaboration. Mr. Fareed Paracha, the Jamaat’s spokesperson rejected the impression that the Jamaat had distanced itself from Mr. Hassan’s statement. Instead, Mr. Paracha argued that Mr. Hassan’s statement reflected views of the Jamaat.
The Jamaat has always acted as a spoiler in Pakistan. Knowing that the electorate has rejected the Jamaat in every election, it runs the election campaigns on false promises, knowing that it will never be asked to deliver on the claims it made. However, this makes the life of real political outfits much difficult who have to explain to the voters why they cannot promise to double the minimum wage, which the Jamaat always readily promises.
The Jamaat this time, has made a major error in judging the political mood in the country. With thousands of deaths at the hands of the militants in Pakistan, the common man no longer sees the Taliban as an asset. Even the Army is distancing itself from the hardcore militants who have repeatedly attacked the armed forces.
It is not clear if the Jamaat would be able to learn from its mistakes and indeed apologise to Pakistanis whose loved ones have been killed in cold blood by the militants.
Hakeemullah Mehsud was the militant-in-chief who rebelled against the State and approved of attacks against civilians. He was a war criminal, and not a martyr. If the Jamaat still cannot tell the difference, it deserves to be in the political wilderness it finds itself in today.