Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Any one who disagrees with you will be killed.
*
Asli TTP yahan hay*

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Thats not fair - I have always kept dogs and theybare wonderful animals. These TTP are beasts much lowly than dogs.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

No, that is not what I wrote.

I wrote that one who disagree with Quran (Quran states that one should not create fitna and fasad on earth) ... are takfeeries and murderers of Muslims, terrorizes people and kill innocent non-combatant civilians intentionally, consider Muslim army of Pakistan as army of Kuffar, side with takfeeries and murderers of Muslims, support takfeeries (financially, morally, or with words), should be fought with and killed (until, they stop their fitna and fasad, do tauba, and become Muslim again).

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

In 1980s we got aid from the same kafir to kill Muslims+kafir in Afghanistan, in 1990s we aided Muslims to kill other Muslims in Afghanistan, why did our scholars support all those killings as “jihad”. The fatawa are showered as to what pleases these scholars.

By killing innocent Pakistani Muslims, by attacking govt institutions, by shutting down schools, by terrorising the country, by looting industry, by indulging in kidnap for ransom do you think they are actually helping Islam or Pakistan?

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

But you should be happy, unless you are anti-Salaf ?

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Kya mousoof ki shaan meiN kuch gaaliyaaN deney ki ijazat di ja sakti hai?

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

bilkul........sab se munaasib,mukhtasir aur jaame' gaali hai ""JAMAATIAA"

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

since when does the Quran side with Pakistan or its army? /sarcasm - don't need to respond to this.. but.......

Pakistani army meets ALL of your criteria, so Saleem sahab aap tyaar hn?

Murderers of Muslims - Check
Terrorizes People - Check
Kill innocent non-combatant civilians intentionally - Check
Sell civilians for dollars - Check (had to add this)
Side with the murderers of Muslims - Check
Supports takfeeris (financially, morally, words) - Check

Paksitani army meets all the above. What are you going to do now? Run to uncle Sam?

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Bhai, yea baat samjhao:

These TTP Kharjees call Quaid-e-Azam a Kafir, call Muslims of Pakistan (majority of them) Kuffar, call Pakistani armed forces as army of Kuffar, call Pakistani system of government as Kafir system, call Pakistan judiciary as kafir judiciary, etc, etc, etc … And using that takfeer they are fighting and killing Pakistani armed forces and innocent Pakistanis, blowing themselves (as suicide bombers) to harm Pakistani infrastructure, schools, hospitals, mazars, markets, public gatherings, public places, and so on.

So, why they and their supporters, sympathisers, financiers, protectors, so-called religious scholars, etc … expect that we should consider them Muslim and do not kill them (because a Muslim should not fight and kill Muslims)?

As to your questions:

[quote]
Murderers of Muslims – Check
[/quote]

Pakistan army is not murdering Muslims, but killing Kharjees who are doing takfeer on them and are fighting them ... and not only that, but these Kharjees are doing takfeer on whole Pakistani nation, and are killing them indiscriminately ... and it is duty of Pakistan army to fight and kill these Kharjees to safe Pakistanis whose servant is Pakistan army and are paid by their tax money.

[quote]
Terrorizes People – Check
[/quote]

Pakistan army do not terrorize innocent people, they terrorize Kharjees fighting Pakistan army and killing innocent Pakistanis.

[quote]
Kill innocent non-combatant civilians intentionally – Check
[/quote]

Pakistan army neither claimed nor killed any innocent non-combatant civilians intentionally.

[quote]
Sell civilians for dollars - Check (had to add this)
[/quote]

Pakistan army or government of Pakistan did not sell any innocent civilians for dollars.

All who were handed over to America (Amal Kansi and Ramzi Yusuf ... two Pakistanis) were wanted criminals in USA, and USA was Pakistani ally ... as for Arabs (and other not Pakistanis) given to USA during Musharraf time, they were illegal combatants, wanted by USA, whom Pakistan wanted to deport to their respective countries, but their countries showed unwillingness to take them, so they were offered to USA.

[quote]
Side with the murderers of Muslims – Check
[/quote]

Pakistan army do not side with murderers of Muslims, they are just fulfilling their duty towards Pakistan, and side with people with whom Pakistan (as state) has made alliances.

[If you want to, I can prove from Quran and Islamic history from time of Prophet (SAW), that a Muslim state can have alliance with non-Muslims and fight for the rights of non-Muslim alliances, with whoever harms them]

[quote]
Supports takfeeris (financially, morally, words) – Check
[/quote]

Support takfeeries (that happened in past) when takfeeries were ally due to state policy. It is just like Muslims state supporting Kafirs if they are allies.

[quote]
Pakistani army meets all the above. What are you going to do now? Run to uncle Sam?
[/quote]

Pakistani army do not meet any of above … except your last points (making alliance with takfeeries in past), and Pakistan is paying the price of that alliance.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

I agree with Wasim Akhtar here…Ban JI

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Something interesting…

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

we're not talking about what they think of pakistanis and pakistani muslims though you have no evidence to support much of your postings except some news reports.

  • pakistani army IS murdering muslims if you can't understand this fact then you have no clue about this war. sure you can put your head in the sand thinking its your own little world and call xyz a khajoor kharjee whatever then pakistani army is sent from heavens for all you care

  • pakistani army directly or indirectly has approved drone strikes and struck many places where innocents resided. your argument will be "war casualties" vs the ttp argument; they target people part of oppressors (per ttp), if civilians get killed in mix (according to them) it's casualty of war.

  • pakistani government and mush's army has sold thousands of innocent Pakistanis for dollar$. ask those who are carrying pictures of their loved ones outside in protest. you can't close your eyes on this. also don't forget the journalists that have been kidnapped and later found shot dead.. all doing of intelligence.

  • please don't bring Quran into this. pakistani generals and politicians have sold the nation to the USA for nothing but greed. there's no alliance, this is not hollywood.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Actually, I'd rather swap JI. In that case, the charges are trumped up. Here...not so much.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Legal notice served on JI chief - DAWN.COM

ISLAMABAD: A political adviser to the PPP, Chaudhry Fawad Hussain, served on Monday a legal notice on Jamaat-i-Islami chief Munawar Hassan, asking the latter to withdraw the statement in which he had declared TTP head Hakeemullah Mehsud as martyr.

Chaudhry Fawad has also decided to file in the Supreme Court a plea seeking suo motu action against the JI chief.

The legal notice was served on a day when the JI stood by the remarks made by its chief and decided that he would not tender an apology as demanded by the military.

“The stand taken by Jamaat-i-Islami confirms that it was not Munawar Hassan’s own remarks but a party statement and, therefore, I will also file a petition in the Election Commission of Pakistan under the Representation of People’s Act (1976) to seek cancellation of JI’s registration,” Chaudhry Fawad told Dawn.

He said he had served the legal notice in his individual capacity, but PPP Chairman Bilawal Bhutto Zardari had also asked him to file a plea in the apex court against the controversial remarks made by the JI leader.

The notice served on Mr Hassan said: “It is to be read as a legal notice issued in context and reference to your statement or response or reply, given or issued or responded or rendered during a press conference aired or telecasted or broadcasted or published or reported by all news channels and newspapers of Pakistan on the 3rd and 4th of November 2013.

“That it is also to be read as a legal notice issued in context and reference to your statement or response or reply, given or issued or responded or rendered, repeatedly on the 9th of November 2013 during a talk show.

“Munawar Hassan called/pronounced and declared a known terrorist, mass murderer, proclaimed offender and chief of banned TTP Hakeemullah Mehsud (now dead) a martyr. Whereas you denounced, mocked, insulted and denigrated the sacrifices of our great Shuhada of the armed forces, civil armed forces and thousands of innocent citizens of Pakistan.

“Munawar Hassan completely discounted the bloodshed of innocent Pakistani citizens, including women and children, and issued loathsome, preposterous and illegal statements with aim and object to ridicule and scorn the sacrifices of our great martyrs who lost their lives to save the lives of millions of Pakistani citizens in the monstrous and ruthless terrorist attacks carried out by the banned outfits, including TTP and its allies.

“The JI chief’s statement has caused immense pain, agony and suffering among the families of martyrs as well as in society at large.

“You are expected to withdraw your statements and tendered unconditional apology to the nation, especially to the families of Shuhada and all other victims of the gruesome terrorist attacks, forthwith.”

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

The robbers, criminals, looters, phone-snatcher/killers roaming on streets of Karachi are also so called 'Muslims'. Being Muslim does not guarantee you protection from prosecution or fight back, that is also a fact.

I am also against drone attacks or even "shelling" by army but the way TTP "kills" is exploding bombs in markets, mosques, minority pray-areas... these are not "war casualties".

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

God good. How many of you actually have a democratic bone in your body. Freedom of speech means you can say what you want and deal with the consequences. It doesn't mean you ban political parties.

Its absolutely pathetic you lot live in democratic countries yet have no idea what democracy stands for. You can't just ban political parties because you disagree with what they say.

The JUI and JI are deplorable scum of the earth but in a democracy they have a right to say what they wish and there are consequences for that just like the legal notice.

Consider the JUI and the JI our versions of the tea party.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

[QUOTE]

  • pakistani army directly or indirectly has approved drone strikes and struck many places where innocents resided. your argument will be "war casualties" vs the ttp argument; they target people part of oppressors (per ttp), if civilians get killed in mix (according to them) it's casualty of war.

[/QUOTE]

Our state (as much as possible) should try to avoid civilian deaths (from drones or else) and should address their grievances but civilians on that side should also keep distance from the scumbags.
As far as Pak army is concerned, it is the defender of the state. It is the duty of army to fight with internal or external threats to our people and state itself. My question is what is the legality of Taliban army and their actions. They are not representative of the people whose rights have been violated by the state or government. so who the hell are they and how can we say that their actions are legit.
They keep chanting slogans of shariat and implementation of Islam but they are not even aware of the Islamic rules of war. For Muslims, it is not "All is fair in love and war". You have to abide by some rules even if your adversaries are violating it. Your calling deaths of innocents, ordinary citizens, women, children as war casualties is shameful and pathetic. We cannot call it collateral damage when they explode bombs in markets, funerals, mosques etc. Islam doesn't teach us to be hawkish but it guides us to rein in our emotions and in turn our actions.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

No two wrongs can make one right.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

^ Agreed. By all means be anti war and anti-drones (I have reservations myself) but at least have the courage to condemn TTP murderers when they commit an atrocity

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Every one is doing that , and rightly so, its just some are asking to have the same criteria for others as well. Anyone commiting atrocity should be condemned.

if some one is looking at an event from different perspective then debate rather then tag him as enemy, i dont think any one other then self claimed liberals here are wishing for death for others.