Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

:confused:

and you are passing judgement on me.
*
Do rangee chorr day yak rung ho ja, sar sar sang ho ja ya sar sar maum ho ja.

*And i can prove this statement any time chotay bhai.Start a new thread and we will see who these most of the people are :slight_smile:

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan


Jihad does not begin when *airaa ghaira nathoo khaira *picks a gun and claims he is fighting jihad.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

agreed.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

chor ki darrhi mein tinka. :)
It was a general statement. Not directed necessarily towards you.

But it is not the first time when you got offended by a tinka like this one. When I talked about khariji attribute, you thought I was talking about deobandis. Remember that? :)

And enough Urdu sentences. I can't comprehend what you just wrote. Try English.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

I really do respect few ptians here who know what's wrong and what's good for party but also we have few ptians who just don't wana be bend coz it's goes to against party policies if they speak truth and they are just defending JI coz it's allies with PTI now and the benefits goes to the 2nd party aka Taliban' hamdards as they are in full action to take advantages to make the nation confuse. It's better for PTI to get rid of JI as soon as they can.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

you should stop defending MQM terrorists before advising others.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Oops!!

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Try answering the apparent contradictory statements of yours. baqi tension na lain

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

True the bold party. I think Asad Umar is one of such guys. He came out against Imran's statement of opening khariji offices. He said it was Imran's personal view and not party position. Very nice.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

what contradictory statement?
You mean this one? "*- Those who kill innocent people in the name of jihad are fasadi. So are those who apologize for them and call them martyrs."
*
Do you disagree?

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

So you see EyesonSky, you cannot talk unless you do 'tauba' for the sin of defending MQM who are terrorists by default.
Meanwhile, JI and its misguided apologists have all the right to continue to defend khariji mufsideen shamelessly in the name of some sort of religion they claim to follow. :)

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

no my master of twist.

On one side you say do not pass judgement and then you yourself is passing judgement on others.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Don't make me laugh. What a BS.
YOU are the one who was passing judgment over others by saying that they don't consider jihad a fareeza. That was nothing but a conjecture about others. A judgment.
But what I said was not a conjecture. I said anyone killing an innocent person is a fasadi.

So now, is the tinka still stuck somewhere in that beard?
Again, I did not pass judgment over you.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Hassan Nisar takes Moulana Fazal & Munawar Hassan to task for calling Hakeem ullah a Shaheed

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Maulana Fazlur rehman and Munawar Hassan both are ghatiya admis

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Has the army learned its lesson? - Ayaz Amir

Is the army happy now? When you play with fire and ride the dragon’s back it’s too much to hope that once you try to get down the fire will not scorch you. For 30 years the army has played at ‘jihad’ and held in a tight embrace elements like the Jamaat-e-Islami, considering them as knights of the faith, ghazis of Islam. Now these same elements have bitten the hand that has fed them for so long.

Nations can disagree with the wars they fight. There was opposition in the United States to the Vietnam War. There was fierce opposition both in the US and the UK to the invasion of Iraq. In Pakistan there is a better appraisal of what the army did in East Pakistan in 1970-71. But no nation with any notion of self-respect or honour insults its soldiers, the way the Jamaat chief has done, and the way that other mufti of the faith, Fazlur Rehman, has done by calling the Taliban dead the righteous dead and insulting the memory of our fallen soldiers by implying that they died on the wrong side of righteousness.

This is a society steeped in religiosity. People here take the concept of shahadat (martyrdom) very seriously. Our army, for the most part, is a peasant army, its strength drawn from northern Punjab and the Pakthtun belt. When our soldiers, officers and men, go into battle they are sustained by the conviction that they are fighting not only for Pakistan but for Islam. When they fall in battle they say, their families say, it is the will of God, fortitude and fatalism going hand in hand…that what will be, will be, it’s all written in the stars.

So for anyone to question their martyrdom, as Munawar Hasan of the Jamaat has done, and for anyone to bestow the title of martyr on their enemies is the greatest insult of all. This is the Jamaat and it’s getting away with it. Just imagine if such a thing had slipped from the mouth of a PPP leader. The Jamaat would have been on the warpath. Since it is the Jamaat, one of our custodians of holiness, the reaction, while strong in some quarters, has not been as intense as it would have been if a ‘secular’ leader had uttered the offending words.

Look also at the crocodile tears of the ruling party, the PML-N, silent for several days after Munawar Hasan’s outburst, not a squeak from its side, and waking up from its meaningful stupor only after the army’s information wing, ISPR, came out with its statement taking the Jamaat amir to task. Only then did PM Nawaz Sharif remember that the fallen dead of the army were the nation’s ‘benefactors’. Thori der kar dee mehrban aate aate.

How well-controlled on this occasion is the anger of our trading classes, a mighty political force in today’s Islamic Republic. No streamers have gone up in Lahore denouncing the Jamaat chief.

If we are not a sick society already we are fast turning into one. If a person can be shot by his own official bodyguard on the false charge of blasphemy – Salmaan Taseer uttered not a blasphemous word – and if his killer can be called a hero of Islam, and if lawyers garland that hero and religious parties hold huge demonstrations in his support, then someone coming from outer space and witnessing what we do would be hard put to testify to our sanity.

But for the army to ponder is this: that much as it may be upset by the anti-shahadat babbling of the Jamaat chief, the peculiar atmosphere prevailing in Pakistan, the winds not just of intolerance but sheer stupidity blowing across the national landscape, have much to do with the army’s own policies and preoccupations. The maulvis and assorted holy fathers were nothing. They were just instruments in the army’s hands. The army showed the way, mapped out the geography of ‘jihad’, and the holy fathers, under army tutelage, became the nuisance that we now see them to be.

Mustafa Kemal at the head of the Turkish army swept away the cobwebs of the past, smashed old superstitions, and created a new nation. Pakistan’s secular elites, led by the army, created new superstitions and instead of taking Pakistan into the future, pushed it back, into the hole in which we now find ourselves.

The holy fathers played second fiddle to the army and the secular elites. And now, to no one’s surprise except ours, the holy fathers, and assorted Munawar Hasans, are in the ideological vanguard and the ruling elites, too scared to take a stand on anything worth fighting for, tremble and quake before the trumpet blasts of the holy right. If this is how they are against paper tigers how do we expect them to perform against the real stuff, the Taliban?

So the question is not whether their holy nuisances, lords of the pulpit and the loudspeaker – the latter once considered an invention of the devil, now first in their list of weapons – will change their stripes. Who cares about that? The question is whether the army is capable of discarding the so-lovingly nurtured shibboleths of the past and changing its thinking.

Before Pakistan can emerge from the mists of obscurantist thinking, before it can put the demons of intolerance and sheer stupidity to rest, it is the army which has to change its spots. If it can’t do that we are doomed. The Republic’s sword-arm is the army. Let there be no doubt about that. Therefore, before Pakistan’s reformation – whether it takes a Luther to bring it about or an Ataturk – the army must reform itself.

The task is not easy. Look even at the ISPR statement. While castigating Munawar Hasan it praises the Jamaat’s founder, Maulana Maudoodi, for “his services to Islam”. What services to Islam? Is this the army’s knowledge of Pakistan’s history? Mauduooi opposed the creation of Pakistan and denounced Jinnah. There is an extensive literature on the subject but let just one quote from Maudoodi’s ‘Muslims and the Present Political Turmoil’ suffice: “Pity! From League’s Quaid-e-Azam down to the lower cadres there is not a single person who has an Islamic outlook and whose perspective on matters is Islamic.”

Al-Qaeda’s ideology has been influenced by Maududi’s writings. The seeds of intolerance and bigotry in the country created by Jinnah were sown by Maudoodi and the Jamaat-e-Islami. Indeed, the Jamaat was the inventor of danda-bardar – lathi-bearing – Islam. The Taliban have gone a crucial step further and become the Janissaries of Kalashnikov-Islam. It’s a difference of degree, not substance. And the army had a hand in these transformations. Not surprisingly, Gen Zia was a fervent admirer of the Maulana and his brand of Islam. And for Pakistan’s passage into the dark ages we know how much we owe Gen Zia. If, oblivious of all this, the ISPR can still bring itself to idolise Maudoodi’s services to Islam then perhaps the time may have come to abandon all hope.

This martyrdom debate has been a good thing. It has helped clarify some matters, unless of course we have lost the ability to think clearly and are past the point of no return. The physician should have a clearer idea of the demons he helped create. But can the physician now heal himself? This is the most important question of all.

Tailpiece: And I had almost forgotten about Mullah Naseeruddin Haqqani. Now what explanation will we give regarding his presence in Islamabad? The skeletons in our cupboards.

Email: [email protected]

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

MQM was the first who erased the jamati influence from Karachi and I understand that poster takleef!! But the things they can't do now doing by their brothers the out fit banned parties, there is no doubt JI fertilize them and sheltering them in Karachi also. Jin ki fitrat mei ho dasna WO dasa karte hain!

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

by what? violence right? don't tell me otherwise please orelse you will be the biggest hypocrite alive.

and mqm is harboring many shia terrorist parties responsible for the sectarian violence in karachi.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Sssh , sipah e muhammad is not a terrorist party here they are killing kharijis.

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Re: Pakistani soldiers fighting TTP are not martyrs : Munawar Hassan

Bla bla bla.....
Other day in Karachi police killed 8 monsters and every one know from where they belong! Don't try to make fool the peoples they are very well aware the faces of devils behind the Karachi unrest.