Re: Pakistani Identity?
exactly!
only basics are usefull in hindi and urdu, because elaborated language in those countries is english anyway!
Re: Pakistani Identity?
I respect your opinion but in fact Urdu and Hindi are two different languages. Ask some hindi speaking person to pronouce zed, kh, Ph, Aain and you will come to know the difference. I prsonaly like the persian influence in Urdu language coz it has made the urdu language quite rich in vocabulary as well as expressions.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
So now we have people of "International National Identity Issuing Authority (INIII....IIIIII) who will be so kind to give Pakisan a place in their prestigious list of countries.
Madamoselle! your words are mighty big compared to your position. Who are you to sit on some imaginary high chair and bestown upon us some this identity.
You personally are establishing relations with Pakistan because you couldn't find a better choice elsewhere despite the degrees shigrees etc. Read again! A Pakistani! His passport will say "Pakistani", and he will be carrying college degrees (if he has any) stamped by the authority of "Pakistani" government. This will be the case until the poor chap will acquire a new identity in France. Still it remains upto that poor fella what identity he wants.
However rest of the 150 million people will be "Pakistanis".
So please stop giving us these big lectures about identity and keep yourself busy with giving identity to Afghanis or Pukhtoonis, or Pushtoonis. OK!
What kind of question is that? are you proud of your newly acquired french identity? Are other members of your family are proud to be whatever country they belong? check with them first.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
Madamoselle! your words are mighty big compared to your position. Who are you to sit on some imaginary high chair and bestown upon us some this identity.
So please stop giving us these big lectures about identity and keep yourself busy with giving identity to Afghanis or Pukhtoonis, or Pushtoonis. OK!
What kind of question is that? are you proud of your newly acquired french identity? Are other members of your family are proud to be whatever country they belong? check with them first.
damn i hit the sensitive nail of mister antibiol:D
why do you want me to be busy with pashtoon identity?? what's your problem with pashtoon antibiol? why are so hatefull agasint pashtoons? why are you insulting afghan and kabul people in any other thread on gushup??
am I proud to be french? yes of course, french is beautifull language, france have a nice history and the best cooking of the whole develooped world, proving americans it's possible to be modern and keep a taste for nature!
and my family is also proud of our french roots and ancestors, do that mean that i don't care about other nationalities? NO
I do care, especially about the weak nationality who are in danger because of bad reputation (like pakistani). Antibiol it's not by putting allways and forrever the blame on afghanistan that you'll fight pakistani problems, no if you focuse only on ethnic issues y'oull miss the important issues
Re: Pakistani Identity?
I was only having an academic discussion with Pakistan4Ever and wanted to put some of hiis ideas about Pakistani Identity to criticism...Discourse is a good thing and leads to clearity...Why should one be afraid of criticism and difference of opinion and respond so aggressively to it...?
Re: Pakistani Identity?
pronunciation differences do not make languages different.
actually pronunciatiun differences are only the basis of some dialectal variations, by linguistics standards.
so IF pronunciatiion was the only difference btw urdu and hindi that would mean they are two dialect of the SAME language.
Furthermore: it's the vocabulary and grammar divergence degree that makes the languages different,
BUT linguistics experts do not agree on the issue, because to address the language variabilty of urdu/hindi is a difficult thing especially because those languages use different alphabets and there are no formal tools to assess effectively and rapidly those "exotic" alphabet languages, on the net for example.
It would be a strenous task to read hundreds urud book and hindi book and find out where is the difference, but linguistics do NOT agree with tha scientific method because urdu and hindi are spoken languages, alive languages, so the best is to assess the divergence btw the language at the writen AND spoken level, that is even more complex!
We know urdu and hindi have diffrent scripts,but that's not enough to make to separate languages: punjabi can be written in two different script also but that's only one language (with some dialects also).
We know urdu and hindi have the same grammar.
We know hindi and urdu do share the same basics vocabulary, i read a study done online, assessing the 100 most used words in both languages, basically the same.
It's also true that hindi is rich of sanscrit phrases that urdu ignores, and Urdu likes persian/arabic phrases that hindi ignores,
here is one anecdote, when i first tried to write urdu on gupshup, people told me i had written hindi and told me to replace some words by "urdu" words, and they had understood the "hindi" words perfectly!
Re: Pakistani Identity?
Yeah, certain kabuli commie pashtun natinonalists are hell bent to prove urdu and hindi are the same thing lol even though they arent, just because they ‘sound’ the same. Hindi is VERY different, but Indians these days are leaning more and more towards spoken Urdu and these Kabuli Commie lovers think its the same language. Allah in logoon ko thori aqal atta farmayae.
Like I said, we are PAkistanis, just because we said so and belong to Pakistan. Any outsider who associates us with any Indian or Sri Lankan can go stick it where it hurts the most.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
Furthermore: it's the vocabulary and grammar divergence degree that makes the languages different,
BUT linguistics experts do not agree on the issue, because to address the language variabilty of urdu/hindi is a difficult thing especially because those languages use different alphabets and there are no formal tools to assess effectively and rapidly those "exotic" alphabet languages, on the net for example. It would be a strenous task to read hundreds urud book and hindi book and find out where is the difference, but linguistics do NOT agree with tha scientific method because urdu and hindi are spoken languages, alive languages, so the best is to assess the divergence btw the language at the writen AND spoken level, that is even more complex! We know urdu and hindi have diffrent scripts,but that's not enough to make to separate languages: punjabi can be written in two different script also but that's only one language (with some dialects also). We know urdu and hindi have the same grammar. We know hindi and urdu do share the same basics vocabulary, i read a study done online, assessing the 100 most used words in both languages, basically the same. It's also true that hindi is rich of sanscrit phrases that urdu ignores, and Urdu likes persian/arabic phrases that hindi ignores,
here is one anecdote, when i first tried to write urdu on gupshup, people told me i had written hindi and told me to replace some words by "urdu" words, and they had understood the "hindi" words perfectly!
Ok deary, we arent really interested in your personal anecdotes, and what people tell you about your 'hindi' or 'urdu' on GS.
It is quite apparent to me you have NO clue what hindi is, let alone the differences b/w Nastaliq and Sanskrit. Also, if youre hell bent on proving PAkistanis and Indians are the same because Hindi and Urdu are the same, well Ive got news for you, the majority in Pakistan does not speak Urdu, and the majority in India does not speak Hindi either. This also goes for 'last of the dinos'.
P.S. Hindi and Urdu have the same grammar? lol
Re: Pakistani Identity?
It is quite apparent to me you have NO clue what hindi is, let alone the differences b/w Nastaliq and Sanskrit. Also, if youre hell bent on proving PAkistanis and Indians are the same because Hindi and Urdu are the same, well Ive got news for you, the majority in Pakistan does not speak Urdu, and the majority in India does not speak Hindi either. This also goes for 'last of the dinos'.
P.S. Hindi and Urdu have the same grammar? lol
what are the diferent gramatical system of urdu and hindi?
they have same verbal constructiun: subject/object/verb "main hindustani (nahin) hoon"
they have the same gender: masculine and femine, usually marked by a/i: larka/larki
they have the same remarkable coinstructiun with object as a subject:
mujhe pakistan bahut passand hai.
mujhe is here the formal object but is the meaning subject of the sentence (i like pakistan very much)
basic grammar is same, i can put more example if someone wants
ps, i know how to write nastaliq (urdu)/ nashq (arab/pashto) and devanagari, i have been to both india and pakistan, i know regional languages are the dominant vernacular languages of course.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
jab kisi cheez ki aliph bey na atti ho tu baqbaq karney sey koi fayada nahee hota, especially jab aap kisi aisey bandey se baat kar rahi hoon jis ney Urdu me achievements hasil ki hon, now please go get this translated by your chaheeta.
Also mind explaining to me why people from both countries have difficulty understanding the radio braodcasts of each other.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
Oh and ParisNoor, did you know that the first ever controversy between Muslims and India that ultimately paved way to PAkistan was due to the differences between Hindi and Urdu so we should thank URDU for the blessings of partition, read this:
During the last days of the Muslim rule, Urdu emerged as the most common language of the northwestern provinces of India. It was declared the official language, and all official records were written in this language. In 1867, some prominent Hindus started a movement in Banaras in which they demanded the replacement of Urdu with Hindi, and the Persian script with the Deva Nagri script, as the court language in the northwestern provinces. The reason for opposing Urdu was that the language was written in Persian script, which was similar to the Arabic script, and Arabic was the language of the Quran, the Holy Book of the Muslims. The movement grew quickly and within a few months spread throughout the Hindu population of the northwestern provinces of India. The headquarters of this movement were in Allahabad.
*This situation provoked the Muslims to come out in order to protect the importance of the Urdu language. The opposition by the Hindus towards the Urdu language made it clear to the Muslims of the region that Hindus were not ready to tolerate the culture and traditions of the Muslims. **The Urdu-Hindi controversy had a great effect on the life of Sir Syed Ahmad Khan. Before this event he had been a great advocate of Hindu-Muslim unity and was of the opinion that the "two nations are like two eyes of the beautiful bride, India". But this movement completely altered his point of view. He put forward the Two-Nation Theory, predicting that the differences between the two groups would increase with the passage of time and the two communities would not join together in anything wholeheartedly. *
Re: Pakistani Identity?
God bless the Urdu language, jalney walloon ka mo kaala!
Re: Pakistani Identity?
chaheeta kaun hai??
aapko urdu parhte hain kyuni aap angrezi nahin samajh sakte hain.
mujhe yaqeen hai k aapko mere post nahin ati hai, tau aap mere lie urdu koshish karte hain, aap bakabak karte hain, main nahin!
ek aur bar parh!
ye sac hai ki mujhe sab kuch nahin ati hai, lekin mujhe urdu aur hindi itni ati hain, main hindustani bahut sikh rahi hoon
Re: Pakistani Identity?
haha, that just shows how much you know about urdu, you have atleast 30 'grave' errors there, so please dont lecture us bout grammar or similarities between two languages which are SO alien to you. Your english isnt something to cherish about either, as evident by your other posts here. Maybe you should stick to French. You, of all the people, shouldnt be lecturing native Urdu speakers about their language. You have atleast 30 grammatical mistakes in that one post you tried in Urdu, and youre trying to highlight the differences between Urdu and Hindi. Maybe to non-fluent people with weak Urdu such as yourself might think Hindi and Urdu are the same, but those that really know the two languages dont.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
aapko urdu parhte hain kyuni aap angrezi nahin samajh sakte hain. mujhe yaqeen hai k aapko mere post nahin ati hai, tau aap mere lie urdu koshish karte hain, aap bakabak karte hain, main nahin! ek aur bar parh! ye sac hai ki mujhe sab kuch nahin ati hai, lekin mujhe urdu aur hindi itni ati hain, main hindustani bahut sikh rahi hoon
I wouldnt brag too much about Urdu and Hindi skills with that paragraph, it would even put Benazir to shame. I am not going to argue with someone about a language they have no clue about, end of topic.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
nice try but a lot of grammatical mistake:D i agree with spock that urdu and hindi are differint languages even if that was the case it is only mother toungh of some 12% of pakistni papulation and people pleassssssssss specially pakistnis cut this crap of we are the same as indians we pakistanis don,t share anything with indians jai hanuman creatures:mad: .
Re: Pakistani Identity?
you have just proved how pakistani are racist, i'm learning your language and you're mocking me, next time a pakistani is trying some (broken) english, i'll remember you, but i won't mock him, because i have higher standards than you
Re: Pakistani Identity?
so clever people write my pragraph in good urdu and good hindi to show me how different those languages are
calling indians jai humans is another proof of your racism, shame! there are 120 million muslims and you’re insulting them, really you’re a shame to pakistan and ummah!
Re: Pakistani Identity?
*This situation provoked the Muslims to come out in order to protect the importance of the Urdu language. The opposition by the Hindus towards the Urdu language made it clear to the Muslims of the region that Hindus were not ready to tolerate the culture and traditions of the Muslims. **The Urdu-Hindi controversy had a great effect on the life of Sir Syed Ahmad Khan. Before this event he had been a great advocate of Hindu-Muslim unity and was of the opinion that the "two nations are like two eyes of the beautiful bride, India". But this movement completely altered his point of view. He put forward the Two-Nation Theory, predicting that the differences between the two groups would increase with the passage of time and the two communities would not join together in anything wholeheartedly. *
Let's not turn this into Pak ID and Urdu thread. Urdu may have created some $hite in UP due to politics. However a lot of Hindus have blessed Urdu with some wonderful literature. One name that comes to mind is "Krishan Chandar". There were many others too.
It would very simplistic to use Urdu as the basis of Pakistan. Pakistan was envisioned for and created in vastly non-Urdu areas (with exception of Urban Punjab where Urdu has thrived from the very beginning i.e. 300 or so years). Urdu happens to be the youngest language compared to other languages like Pushto, Balochi, Sindhis, or Punjabi.
Coming back to the topic:
The thread was started not to discuss Pak ID but to bash Pakistan using this topic. This is typical of Kabuli Kommies, and see them having a laugh after starting this $hite.
It doesn't matter though. People who plan to burn Pakistan get burned themselves, People who chop Pakistan go through a big chop chop machine themselves. If Kabuli Kommies had the right approach, Afghanistan would have been a great place instead of bombed out hell in Jalalabad, Kabul, and Kandhar.
Pakistan PaindaBaad.
Re: Pakistani Identity?
calling hindus jai hanuman isn,t bad or racistic don,t they believe in some god named hamuman:confused: ?(they have many gods)
like i said in beginning when people try to relate pakistanis to indians ofcourse i as pakistani have the right to give those people a reality check:halo: ,it is like me going to turks and tell them they and greeks are the same,they would be pissed of by these remarks and what i said was directed at hindus not indian muslim…indian muslim are to me same as a pakistani muslim or any muslim for that matter.would you like that some one said french and algirian are the same people so please dont tell us pakistanis and indian are the same cuz we are not,period:grumpy: