Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
i was just confirming..... bcoz u can't really accuse the other person of not having the facts when you don't have em yourself either..:D
From post 33, the poster's hawkish nature is apparent. I was not "accusing" poster of anything - poster spoke for him/herself.
As for my lack of facts, if you had read my earlier post, you would have seen for yourself that I did not have access to this poll. Here it is for your benefit
"IMO, if the jawans were the only one polled, a peaecful resolution will come about in a heartbeat."I have no doubt this helps in your understanding.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
I have no idea what shahadat means. Pray educate.
So I take it you have acess to an opinion poll of the Jawans and know for a fact that the majority would prefer a hawkish solution to a solution through discussion?
I also take it you dont care for "secular" positions. you have good company, because people with secular viewpoints are similarly maligned by the right wing in India.
You will also note that m comments were directed towards Jawans of all countries - that they would prefer peace. And it was directetd towards hawks in all countries, who take hawkish positions behind the safety of their computer screens.
southie, i do not have access to any poll but i do know may personally, both among officiers and "jawans" and i dont care about what jawans of other countries think. those men in my country also wish and long for peace, but they love to give a bloody nose when provoked and suppressed. they even talk about giving a wakeup call to their own higher-ups, and sometimes, that pre-wake-up call notion serves well. go figure
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
No I do not. It is my opinion (using common sense) that Jawans in any country prefer peace, not war. I thought this would have been crystal clear reading my posts!
My comments are directed towards those who are beating the drumbeats of war - to me the chickenhawks need to tone it down in every country. Hope this helps.
oh for your information, its not called beating the dubmbeats of war, its called self defence, mr peace.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
From post 33, the poster's hawkish nature is apparent. I was not "accusing" poster of anything - poster spoke for him/herself.
As for my lack of facts, if you had read my earlier post, you would have seen for yourself that I did not have access to this poll. Here it is for your benefit
"IMO, if the jawans were the only one polled, a peaecful resolution will come about in a heartbeat."I have no doubt this helps in your understanding.
again for you, its not called hawkish or something on those lines, its called defending one's life and homeland. I dont believe on turning the other cheek, you may be of that opinion.
and by the way, for the bold part, a poll about what? like this one...
the poll: Someone enters your country unlawfully, and kills several of your country men, brothers and friends, what would like to do on next such event, god forbid, if happens
a) sing a peace song and let them kill all they want
b) defend your homeland and kill the enemy before he kills you.
I dont know what will be your answer to such a poll, but i think a soldier of any country will always choose "b" here.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
again for you, its not called hawkish or something on those lines, its called defending one's life and homeland. I dont believe on turning the other cheek, you may be of that opinion.
and by the way, for the bold part, a poll about what? like this one...
the poll: Someone enters your country unlawfully, and kills several of your country men, brothers and friends, what would like to do on next such event, god forbid, if happens
a) sing a peace song and let them kill all they want
b) defend your homeland and kill the enemy before he kills you.
I dont know what will be your answer to such a poll, but i think a soldier of any country will always choose "b" here.
How about option c - find out what happened, speak with the other party, try to come to a resolution.
It is all black and white for you isn't it. Life must be so simple for you.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
southie, i do not have access to any poll but i do know may personally, both among officiers and "jawans" and i dont care about what jawans of other countries think. those men in my country also wish and long for peace, but they love to give a bloody nose when provoked and suppressed. they even talk about giving a wakeup call to their own higher-ups, and sometimes, that pre-wake-up call notion serves well. go figure
Provocation and suppression - you must be living in a fantasy land. There was a mistake here - wait for the facts to come out. And if you are so inclined, go to the frontlines rather than hide behind your computer screen. Dont speak for the Jawans who dont have a say in this.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
Many of us in pakistan don't consider this to be a mistake, it seems to be a deliberate attack to test the waters for something big. As far as soldiers sitting on the borders doing nothing and still getting killed (72 on them have been killed so for through NATO attacks) creates frustration and loss of morale in the armed forces and the nation. Through these kind of attacks with no response from Pakistani army they are creating a wedge between the people of the country and the army itself (many people now believe that the army cannot protect them) which makes the situation very dangerous as tomorrow if Americans really do attack the army and they don't have any local support it would be very easy to route them. Similarly repetition of incidences with no response from the army might create divisions within the army itself.
No sane person would like a war but any army would like to retaliate if war is thrust onto them because frankly with the passage of time Americans are pushing the army/country into a dead end.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
Clearly this incident was a mistake. Tone down the rhetoric.
Provocation and suppression - you must be living in a fantasy land. There was a mistake here - wait for the facts to come out. And if you are so inclined, go to the frontlines rather than hide behind your computer screen. Dont speak for the Jawans who dont have a say in this.
Southie, you must take up job of NATO spokes person, you are very good at declaring it a mistake, despite all of the news available.
in one line you say it was a mistake, in the same breath in next sentence you say wait for the facts to come out? what a joke. what facts by the way? same facts which came out in the Iraqi WMD and Raymond Davis etc etc.
in the same thread first you claimed to have "clue" what "jawans" will decide if there was a poll, and when confronted, in the same thread you say "dont speak for the jawans" thats messed up buddy, give it up.
and telling me to go on front line, like you are sitting on some cloud showering peace on the humanity, pathetic.
and who you think you are to tell me to tone down or tone up? Its you who's living in fantasy land it seems. no more reply to you from me, its hopeless talking to someone who chooses to ignore all sorts of facts, news, evidences, past lessons and repeats the same like "oh it was a mistake", and its even more funny when it comes from an indian who has nothing to do in this whole episode.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
Have not followed this closely - from my perspective this appears to be a mistake - not a deliberate attempt on the NATO troops part. But all facts are not out, IMO - hence the request to wait for all factsto come out.
I have no doubt the NATO and Pakistan government will resolve this amicably - at least I hope so.
As for my being an Indian who has nothing to do with this episode, I am a human being first, and I will offer an opinion, whether you like it or not.
Out of respect for the soldiers who lost their lives, I will say no more on this topic.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
if it was a mistake, why did they keep on changing their statements every hr?
its very hard to digest it was a mistake!! ... esp whn they were provided all the checkposts locations beforehand!!
this checkpost was a very crucial one! cuz our jawans were able to keep an eye on those miltants who try to cross the border and
come and attack innocent ppl! ... who knows wht these americans were upto! wht was their motive behind this brutal attack
... perhaps they were really testing the waters! like many experts are saying ...
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
Provocation and suppression - you must be living in a fantasy land. There was a mistake here - wait for the facts to come out. And if you are so inclined, go to the frontlines rather than hide behind your computer screen. Dont speak for the Jawans who dont have a say in this.
I am of the firm opinion that it was not a mistake but rather a calculated deliberate attack.
Re: Pakistan military ordered to return fire if attacked by Nato forces
I believe I've been hearing this for years now, how the last attack was the last straw and any new attacks would mean war. We know it's all bull. America could nuke us and still probably wouldn't fight back.
