Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Aha that's true i know it myself.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
:k:
Genuinely trying to wear hijab, be modest, praying 5 times a day, fasting etc, in a society like this, definitely is a jihad. But nooo we hear idiots here saying crap like “oh hijabis r sluts too,they’re forced”.. its ridiculous
The reason these fobs think all grls r slutty is because those r the only type they hang out with, it’s only what’ they seek.. they’re alone in this country, they have no rules to follow, followed by years of watching american/indian television full of sleaziness and trash.. so they assume every grl here is like that and seek those type of girls… its different if ure not going to school, not going to work and are basically with family all the time, like I am, when ure constantly surroudned by the same ppl, you don’t have too many chances to expand ure social circle..
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
I think american desi(AD) and pakistani desi (D) do not understand each other, they can not see each other where they are coming from.. When I came to US 4 yrs ago, I found ADs not so open to welcome and help the freshmen fobs..so my first impression was woh these guys have some problem ... but WE SHOULD NOT JUMP TO THE CONCLUSION THAT THEY ARE ALL BAD, as i later on meet really nice ADs...I see sara making a statement saying all fobs are bad..i see all of guys make this same mistake again and again...generalizing the whole nation.
sara if some much hatred why not come back to US, life will be much easier...
my 2 cents
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Recently a cousin of mine in a similar situation, got engaged to a guy 12 years old then her. All others appeared very eager to leave Pakistan after marriage. I wish her all the happiness. I can tell you that she had to go through a lot and sit infront of some "clown-families" in search of rishta. Not very comfortable! It all happened in Clifton.
Good luck to you :)
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Longhorncoder,
I don't see Sara painting all Pakistanis with the same brush. She's simply telling us about her experiences, and the opinion she has formed based on those experiences. And honestly, many of us has witnessed identical things and may feel the same way.
That being said, of course there are good desis and bad desis, just as there are good American desis and bad American desis. I'm sorry you initially felt unwelcome by AD's here. But a lot of it has to do with bad collective experiences. We're leery of freshman fobs (as you put it) because many of you have misbehaved badly in the past. For example, so many of them have fraudulently married our girls for green cards, or we see fobs who are here illegally, breaking the law by overstaying visas. So it's only natural a lot of AD's are leery of freshman fobs. A lot of fobs also have a sense of entitlement. They see the AD's with perhaps some wealth, but they ignore the blood, sweat and tears that was shed for 30 years before they got to where they are. It was very tough for people of my parents' generation to leave their comfort zone and come to a place (like the US), where they were totally alone and foreign. They sacrificed a lot to raise their children well, establish an Islamic presence, and achieve as much as they could. Do desis in Pakistan appreciate this or admire this? No! Our girls are loose to you even if they're not, our money brings about envy and our status brings resentment. You're welcome to come to America, but this is a country where individuals have to work hard to make it. If someone offers you help along the way, wonderful, but you shouldn't expect help from anyone.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
"They sacrificed a...... this or admire this? No" ... do you admire people in pakistan who are living such a hard life.. go in pakistan and look around .specially lower class people but some of you think they sit at home all day along, 70% people live in the villages and they wake up 6 and work all day long at the fields, should not they be appreciated... life is much tougher there,
I hate the fact people in america people think so much about themself .. so much emphasis on 'I'
hate us but can not live without us...seems confused!
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
From my experience the most common complaint with AD's is that they forget that they too were "freshman FOBs" once upon a time.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
^Not necessarily.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Longhorn: I'd never make fun of someone who came to a country alone, was trying to make a living to help his family back home, get an education etc.. learning a new language n culture, and at the same time sticking to ure deen in an environemnt where everything "forbidden" is readily available is difficult (the latter for everyone, not just "fobs").. the american desis ure talkin abt, maybe they were rude to u, they were selfish and mean, or they had bad experiences as well, but you met nice ones as well.. And dont u dare say "life is so tough there" becoz that's absolute crap.. there's difficulties on both sides, neither lives the peachy keen life.. we all have different problems to go through.. Western desis are better off financially but they're unfairly stereotyped as having no culture, no manners (true for some) even tho they worked their ass off to give themselves a good home n secure person, not to mention the sacrifices they made for their loved ones.. i have a load of xamples from my own life to back up my statements.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Absolutely, I respect those people in Pakistan who live hard lives. We also do our best to help them out whenever we can. But how much do you native Pakistanis (that are slightly better off) respect your poor fellow countrymen? What do you do to help them? Except for some NGO's, the government has abandoned them. The wealthy people degrade them. There's absolutely no pride in labor, as can be attested by the begums of wealthier homes. Look at a common insult..."churi." The woman comes to clean your homes, and you abuse her with that word. You'll use it as a profanity against someone. But I digress...
I find it funny that you totally skirted around the main part of my argument as to why AD's are leery or fobs.
I do agree that some AD's are selfish, but most aren't. This is an individualistic society that doesn't support the idea of helping out extended family networks. Perhaps because there are so many governmental programs in place that you don't need to rely on anyone else. But that's also the beauty that attracts foreigners to this place as well.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
lets just stop comparing ADs with Ds ... all i c is u guys trying to conclude ADs are better then Ds or vice versa..I do respect the working class.. and so many people do in pakstan.. as u said good and bad people exists in every society!..i hope we can do something of those choudries..why not u also raise the question why are Ds leery of ADs.and c if we can cancel it out!.
sara i wonder if u ever met a single D u liked!.. what city are u from?
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
longhorn, all my friends in college r desi 
ive met vonderful ppl here on GS who happen to be desi.. and ill marry a desi guy So 
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
now i have nearly gone through all of the discussion here.
I have got few questions and also want to share my views.
I am a pakistani and am proud to bi and am currently doing my post grad specialization in UK just came here few years back AND WILL GO BACK ONCE I FINISHED.
I as a Pakistani GROOMED male have My own views and all of u r entitled to disagree with me but i think i might tell u other side of story as now i have have seen both cultures.Mainly i will be supporting MY country ,any ways views and commENts will bi welcome and this is no personal attack on any one just an open discussion so plz read this with open mind and answer with open mind if u want to.
Ist Question why do gals from abroad go to apkistan to find some one why dont they marry at a place where they r groomed ,
i see two reasons
ist they dont get appropriate matches
2nd there parents may wish them to marry from pakistan
2ndly what are u all people expecting that all guys or there families in pakistan are just waiting for u to land there so they can just fetch ur passport and come abroad.
Now i tell u that in pakistan like else where in the world there r gud and bad people.
so a gal when she requires a rishta goes to pakistan what she is expecting to
find
A gud sincere caring loving and by far most imp i think educated person for whom a wife would have more value than her passport.so such a person in pakistan now a days will be one who has
good qualifiacations and is professionally stable and if he is loving caring and sincere and above all educated then what do u think will he not find a appropriate gal in pakistan
yes he will and u all will have to agree that he has not gone to pakistan like u in need of a gud rishta he can easily find one in his native place its u who has for any reason didnt find and appropriate match at ur native place and have gone over in need of one.
so if a professionally stable person who is educated and groomed in pakistan will find a suitable match in pakistan why should he prefer a westrn born gal or westrn brought up gal over the one in that is in pakistan.
i must here make one thing clear that relationship and for that matter home (ghar)matters as important to a male as is for female.
and a pakistani male who is professionally sound and educated is sensible enough to now that
a gal who is groomed in pakistan is more compatible enough for him then the one from abroad
a gal who is groomed in pakistan is more or less HAS same views and attitude as he is as being groomed up in same society as he was groomed.
most of gals who r groomed outside there home country (my personal experience )dont know properly how to speak our national language urdu what to talk abt regional languages like panjabi or pashto or sindi or for that matter where u belong from originally
so U ALL TELL ME IF A PERSON WHO IS PROFESSIONALLY SOUND IS SINCERE AND IS EXCELLING IN HIS FIELD WILL PREFER A GAL WHO IS NOT GROOMED IN PAKISTAN WITH OUT ANY INTREST.
I GAVE U MY PERSONAL EXAMPLE WHEN I CAME TO UK AFTER DOING MY POST GRAD. EDUCATION I WILL BE EARNING MORE IN PAKISTAN THAN IN UK ,EVEN IF I WANT TO SETTLE IN UK I CAN EASILY SHIFT TO HIGHLY SKILLED MIGRATION PROGRAMME SO WHY I SHOULD GO FOR SOME ONE I KNOW IS NOT COMPATIBLE WITH ME ,YES THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A PAKISTANI GROOMED MALE AND A UK OR USA ONE SO WHY U PEOPLE ARE NOT SENSIBLE ENOUGH TO MARRY FROM UR OWN PLACE.
AND THEN U GO IN NEED TO PAKISTAN TO FIND A GUD SINCERE PERSON I THINK PERSONALLY U ARE ASKN FOR TOO MUCH
A PERSON WHO IS SENSIBLE AND WELL SETTled OR PROFESSIONALLY COMPETENT WILL ALWAYS GO FOR A PAKISTANI GROOMED GAL AND NOT FOR U.
AFTER LEAVING THESE GROUP OF MALES ASIDE U WILL BE LEFT WITH TWO GROUP OF MALES
ONE WHO R NOT PROFESSIONALLY COMPETENT AND NEED A FORIEGN PASSPORT SO THEY (I TELL U THERE VIEWS) SAY SHE HAS COME DOWN TO PAKISTAN BCZ SHE HAS PROBLEM IN FINDING APPROPRIATE MATCH FOR HER SELF (AND TRULEY U DIDNT FIND APPROPRIATE MATCH FOR WHAT SO EVER REASON THATS WHY U WENT TO PAKISTAN IF THATS NOT THE CASE WHY NOT TO MARRY AT YOUR OWN PLACE NO ONE FROM PAKISTAN FORCED U TO DO THAT SO U ALSO MUST ACCEPT THAT U R IN NEED) SO HE WILL THINK THAT BY LEAVING A PAKISTAN GROOMED MORE COMPATIBLE GAL FOR U HE HAS DONE A FAVOUR TO U IN IN TODAYS WORLD USUALLY IF U TAKE FAVOURS THEN U ALSO HAVE TO GIVE FAVOURS
SECOND GROUP OF MEN IS THOSE IF U R REALLY LUCKY ENOUGH TO FIND SOME ONE WHO REALLY LIKES U FOR A PERSON U R BUT ITS HARD FOR THE FOLLOWING REASONS
USUALLY UR STAY IS SHORT AND U DONT GET MUCH TIME TO INTERACT WITH PEOPLE SO LOVE AT FIRST SIGHT IS A SOME THING ASKN FOR A BIT TO MUCH,
SECONDLY BEHAVIOUR OF A WERTERN GROOMED GAL CAN NEVER BE THE SAME AS THE ONE FROM PAKISTAN AND OUR MEN TEND(FOR THAT MATTER ALL MEN TEND TO LIKE ) PEOPLE WHO USUALLY BEHAVE IN THERE OWN CULTURE MEN DONT TEND TO LIKE WOMEN WHO SPEAK FEW WORDS OF URDU AND THAT TOO NOT PROPERLY
THEN THERE WAS ONE COMMENT THAT PEOPLE IN PAKISTAN TEND TO BECOME WESTERENIZED YES I AGREE BUT NOT ALL AND ITS USUALLY PEOPLE WHO ARE FROM UPPER MIDDLE CLASS AND UPPER CLASS NOT THE ONE IN STREETS OF PAKISTAN (PURE MIDDLE CLASS) AND ITS THIS CLASS THAT REFLECTS THE COUNTRY AND ITS THE CLASS THATS NOW GROWING IN PAKISTAN AND THIS IS THE CLASS NOW WHEN THERE IS EDUCATION COMING TO PAKISTAN ARE MUCH MORE CULTURED AND ARE PROFEESIONALLY EXCELLING AND ARE KEEPING THERE VALUES IN LINE WITH THERE RELIGION RATHER THAN AMERICANS OR WESTERN AND THIS GROUP IS GROING IN PAKISTN EVERY DAY
ALSO THERE WAS ONE COMMENT THAT MOST OF PEOPLE WHO COME ABROAD AS HUSBANDS ARE LOSERS CHEATERS HAVE THERE HIDDEN WIFE ARE NOT CoURTEOUS YES THEY WILL BI LIKE THAT BECAUSE PEOPLE WHO ARE STABLE AND PROFESSIONALLY EXCELLING THEY WILL NEVER PREFER U OVER PAKISTNI GROOMED GAL SO THERE ARE HIGH CHANCES TO FIND MALE LIKE THESE ,PROFESSIONALLY SETTLED AND EDUCATED PEOPLE WILL ALWAYS GO FOR MORE COMPATIBLE MATCH RATHER THAN U (ITS A FACT AND U HAVE TO ACCEPT IT THAT FOR A PAKISTANI GROOMED MALE A PAKISTNI GROOMED GAL IS MOR APPROPRIATE MATCH THAN A WESTERN GROOMED GAL SO FOR THOSE SET OF MALES UR A SECOND CHOICE AND NOT THE IST) SO IF U WANT TO MEET GOOD SINCERE RELIGIOUS ,COURTEOUS MALES GO OUT AND MEET THEM IN PAKISTN( not the one that land as husbands in uk or usa) BUT THEY WILL NEVER GO FOR U BCZ NO ONE WanTS TO GAMBLE FOR THERE HOME (GHAR) EVERY ONE WANTS A GUD HAPPY HOME .
THERE MIGHT BE SUCCESS STORIES OF SUCH OVERSEAS RELATIONSHIPS BUT BELEVE ME UR JUST GAMBLING IF U WIN ALL IS URS BUT THERE ARE HIGH CHANCES THAT U WILL LOOSE,BCZ NOW PAKISTAN IS GROWING ,SO MANY MULTINATIONAL COMPANIES ARE WORKING IN PAKISTAN ,THERE ARE SO MANY HIGHLY SKILLED MIGRATION PROGRAMMES,SO PEOPLE WHO HAVE POTENTIAL ARE GUD ,SINCERE DONT NEED TO GAMBLE FOR U AND IF U GET GOOD JOB IN UR HOME COUNTRY GUD PAY ,ANG GUD LIFE IN UR PAKISTN THEN THERE IS NO PIONT LEAVING PAKISTAN AND BELIEVE ME THERE IS NO PLACE IN WHOLE WORLD LIKE HOME (PAKISTAN) as good and bad people are every where.not just in pakistan
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
^^ saro, if a western groomed person gal more at ease in pakistan than the west,then she wants to settle there...so a male groomed in pakistan is more suitable cause he has more chance to be successfull in pakistan, na?
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
i did nt really got ur message any ways what i understood i gave u response for that
yes if a gal who is groomed in west and she feels that she is more comfortable n pakistn she should i beleive take some time to visit pakistan and stay for a couple of months this will have following benefits
A western groomed gal may find pakistani society differnt form west esp in begining and it might bi diificult for her to settle in future so she can give her self a try for that , bcz having now seen both societies west and pakistani i think there a lot of difference so u can reard that time as a TRIAL PERIOD to see how can u settle up bcz if u stay for few days then every new place not just pakistan will look different than the place u r used to as i felt really bad when i came to uk so u can judge ur self
second benefit is that meet people around and dont tell them initially that u r for a rishta try to improve ur language and interact this will help u to understand what pakistani men and women have approach now(believe me approach of life is highly different between educated middle class men educated upperclass men and for that matter partially educated people) and try to figure out which is best for u and for that matter this might help u to fetch a sincere person who after interaction may like u for the person u are bcz u need to interact to show what sort of person u r and by that matter when u will move around even u can come in eyes of mothers ,sisters looking for bride for there sons or brothers and in this way u can get a sincere person
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
^^ nawazish :k:
please can you elaborate on
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
yes i can tell u the difference
PARTIALLY EDUCATED:
R THOSE WHO R USUALLY SHOWN BY PEOPLE AS BAD FACE OF PAKISTAN
MOSTLY are those who usually are against women development and jobs etc and are very strict esp for women
UPPER CLASS
MOSTLY are those who r so called PSEUDO WESTERNIZED dont adhere to there values and i personally believe are worse than all ,will do any thing in whole world to prove them selves that they are westerenized.
MIDDDLE CLASS
MOSLTY self made people ,now growing pakistani educated people that adhere both to there religious values and are also excelling educationally and insALLAH are the future lifters of pakistan in terms of growth and prosperity.
i have used word moslty in all groups bcz always remember gud and bad people are always there .
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
Saro,
In many cases the foreign raised guy or girl may not have had much of a choice because their parents may have dragged them/emotionally blackmailed them into marrying someone from Pakistan. In many cases it is the preference of the parents, not the kids.
I agree that there are big differences between girls raised here and there. I personally prefer that my daughters all get married to guys from here, for example, my girls, and most of their desi friends from here are used to wearing proper hijab, going to the masjid every week for prayers, being involved in volunteer work, etc., whereas when we arrive in Pakistan the first thing their daadi says is to remove the hijab and wear a dupatta and tight salwar kameez instead, so that they can be fashionable and get good rishtas. Also, girls who were raised here just are not prepared for the amount of backbiting and other family politics that go on there.
I respectfully disagree that western-raised girls don't get good rishtas from Pakistan, my daughters started getting proposals when they were still in elementary school (of the 'let's have an understanding) type. My husband has insulted many family members, including his own sister, by refusing them all. The last time my son went alone my SIL tried to get him engaged to her daughter, and these are people with the connections to have pretty much whatever they want in Pakistan.
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
^ Err Amana, someone who wants an elementary school girl for marriage, wouldn’t exactly be a gud rishta I think 
SEriously, i think ppl who do that, are sick and disgusting.. why would anyone in thier right mind ask for a elementary school, jr high school age grl for mariage? all you ppl here who think American desis have no class or anything, plz xplain to me this thing 
Re: Pakistan - Long term stay and marrige!
In many cases the foreign raised guy or girl may not have had much of a choice because their parents may have dragged them/emotionally blackmailed them into marrying someone from Pakistan. In many cases it is the preference of the parents, not the kids.
I agree that there are big differences between girls raised here and there. I personally prefer that my daughters all get married to guys from here, for example, my girls, and most of their desi friends from here are used to wearing proper hijab, going to the masjid every week for prayers, being involved in volunteer work, etc., whereas when we arrive in Pakistan the first thing their daadi says is to remove the hijab and wear a dupatta and tight salwar kameez instead, so that they can be fashionable and get good rishtas. Also, girls who were raised here just are not prepared for the amount of backbiting and other family politics that go on there.
I respectfully disagree that western-raised girls don't get good rishtas from Pakistan, my daughters started getting proposals when they were still in elementary school (of the 'let's have an understanding) type. My husband has insulted many family members, including his own sister, by refusing them all. The last time my son went alone my SIL tried to get him engaged to her daughter, and these are people with the connections to have pretty much whatever they want in Pakistan.
THANK YOU FOR UR RESPONSE
IST OF ALL I MUST CONGRAGULATE U FOR GROOMING UR KIDS IN NICE ISLAMIC MANNER AND NOT BECOMING PSEDUO WESTERNIZED
AND I ALSO AGREE WITH MUCH OF UR VIEWS
BUT JUST FEW PIONTS
NOW KIDS HAVE TO EDUCATE AND TELL THEIR PARENTS THAT COMPATIBLE MATCH IS WHAT IS REQUIRED FOR LONG TERM RELATIONSHIP AND I DO AGREE THAT THERE MAY BI EMOTIONAL PRESSURE ON THEM
ABT POLITICS AND BACKBITING IN PAKISTAN I DO AGREE AND THATS A THINGS THAT NEEDS EDUCATION AND LITERACY RATE IS GROWING EVERY DAY IN PAKISTAN AND IF A WESTERN BORN GAL IS MARRIED IN PAKISTAN AND SHE STAYS IN PAKISTAN THATS I THINK IS THE HARDEST THING SHE HAS TO FACE
I NEVER SAID THAT WESTERN GALS DONT GET GUD RISTHAS IN PAKISTAN WHAT I WAS SAYING THAT MAJORITY OF THEM THAT THEY GET ARE USUALLY NOT BASED ON SINCERITY LIKE U URSELF ARE TELLING THAT U WANT UR KIDS TO MARRY AT A PLACE WHERE THEY R GROOMED(A VERY SENSIBLE APPROACH) SO THIS IS A THING THAT GOES SAME FOR SENSIBLE FAMILIES IN PAKISTAN THAT THEY WANT PAKISTANI GAL FOR PAKISTANI GROOMED MALES AND NOT THE WESTERN ONE AS U URSELF AGREED THAT THERE IS ALOT OF DIFFERENCE BETWEEN BOTH AND
Final word is that
there is nothing as absolute meaning u can never generalize any thing like example
i can never say all pakistani gals are good also i
can never say that all western gals are bad like i always says
Gud and bad people are every where including pakistan