so how do you think we get our oil from m.e now? the pipeline etc is simply to simplify things a bit - not critical at all. also don't forget there are two sides to the coin. do you seriously think the supplier whether Saudi or Iran would dumb enough to invest in a pipeline without extracting some serious collateral from pakistan that they will never block (meaning high tariff, political bmail etc) one of their biggest markets? And to cap it all (no pun intended) looks like we may find our own energy supplies.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
so how do you think we get our oil from m.e now? the pipeline etc is simply to simplify things a bit - not critical at all. also don't forget there are two sides to the coin. do you seriously think the supplier whether Saudi or Iran would dumb enough to invest in a pipeline without extracting some serious collateral from pakistan that they will never block (meaning high tariff, political bmail etc) one of their biggest markets? And to cap it all (no pun intended) looks like we may find our own energy supplies.
[/QUOTE]
You simply don't get it.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
so how do you think we get our oil from m.e now? the pipeline etc is simply to simplify things a bit - not critical at all. also don't forget there are two sides to the coin. do you seriously think the supplier whether Saudi or Iran would dumb enough to invest in a pipeline without extracting some serious collateral from pakistan that they will never block (meaning high tariff, political bmail etc) one of their biggest markets? And to cap it all (no pun intended) looks like we may find our own energy supplies.
[/QUOTE]
Jagjeevan Ji
Being an Indian I have no axe to grind.
Oil is transported via Pipe Lines only of it is small distance or the Sea Transportation Route is too long.
In the case of India all Oil from the Persian Gulf is transported by Sea.
There are two pipe lines to be considered.
First : From Iran - This can take the following three routes i.e.
Overland via Pakistan. Pakistan will earn a Transit Fee of up to USD One Billion per Year
- Via Pakistani Shallow Waters within Pakistan's Territorial Limits. Pakistan will earn a Transit Fee which I cannot quantify.
- Via Deep Waters within Pakistan EEZ. In this case Pakistan does not earn any Transit Fees.
Second : From Turkmenistan : This country has a proven Reserve of over 100 Trillion Cubic Feet of Natural Gas. It has to be exported. There are three Routes i.e.
Overland via Iran. This would be for export to India, Japan and China in the form of LNG. The financial Institutions are dominated by the USA. So this route is out of question.
Overland via other ex-Soviet Republics, Russia, and then down to Turkey's Mediterranean Coast. This would be for Europe and the Americas. Since Europe is being supplied by Russia and possibly Kazakstan the Russians would want the Turkmenistani Gas to go to India, Japan, S. Korea and China.
Overland via Afghanistan and Pakistan. This would then be further transported to India or Gwadar in the Form of Natural Gas. India would use it. In Gwadar the Chinese are building a Liquefaction Plant so as to enable the export to China, Japan and S. Korea.
India is unwilling to accept a Land Pipe Line route via Pakistan as India is worried about (A) Terrorists blowing up the Pipe line especially when the Terrorists have already Blown up the Natural Gas Pipe Line in Pakistan three times this month already (B) Pakistan's government/Armed Forces ''SHUTTING OFF'' the Supply in times of mutual hostilities.
Thus if the Indians do not take this gas then all this Gas will go to Gwadar get liquefied and then exported as LNG to China, South Korea and Japan.
In either of the above cases both Afghanistan and Pakistan will benefit to the tune of USD One Billion per year each as Transit Fees.
There is only one Fly in the Ointment in respect of this pipe line.
The Chinese are working on a planned Pipe Line OVERLAND from Turkmenistan to China at a cost of USD Eight Billion. The Idea is in the planning stage but it might succeed. The Chinese will also construct undersea pipelines from China's East Coast to S.Korea and Japan.
So if the Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan Pipe Line is built both Pakistan and Afghanistan will be in a WIN WIN Situation.
Have a Nice Day
Instability of Afghan, still a problem for Pipeline Project.
Gas Pipeline Plan to Be Completed By 2005
ASHKHABAD, Dec 17: A plan to lay a gas pipeline across Afghanistan from Turkmenistan to Pakistan is to be agreed in Ashkhabad at a summit at the end of December, Turkmen Deputy Prime Minister Yolly Gurbanmuradov.
The leaders of Afghanistan, Pakistan and Turkmenistan had been due to sign an agreement on the pipeline in October, but the summit was delayed at the request of President Pervez Musharraf.
Gurbanmuradov said the ADB was conducting a study of the market for Turkmen gas, which would be completed in May 2003.
The pipeline to link the energy-rich Central Asia with Pakistan has been on the table for 20 years, but has been thwarted by two decades of conflict in Afghanistan and doubts about its feasibility.
A US energy company, Unocal, once led efforts to build the link, but its plans were scuppered in 1998, when US cruise missiles struck Al Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, leaving the project apparently aborted.
A Turkmen minister said on Tuesday that the construction of an ambitious pipeline from Turkmenistan across Afghanistan to Pakistan might be completed by 2005.
“The construction of the pipeline is planned to be completed in 2005,” said Tachberdy Tagiyev, Turkmenistan’s minister of oil and gas industry and mineral resources.
Some experts raise doubts about Pakistan’s ability to pay for the natural gas and question whether there is a market for the gas there.
Industry experts suggest that the project would only be feasible if it were to supply gas to India as well as Pakistan, although tensions between the two countries may rule out such an option.
Instability in Afghanistan also remains a problem.
so not constructing the pipeline to India through pakistan gives them both what they want. so what's the tussle about?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jagjeevan: *
so not constructing the pipeline to India through pakistan gives them both what they want. so what's the tussle about?
[/QUOTE]
You still don't get it!
Pakistani Tiger Ji
Just when I thought that the Pipe Lines via Pakistan to carry Natural Gas to India had a good chance to be finalized, Pakistan’s Commerce Minister Humayun Akhtar Khan says that there are no Guarantees will be given to India.
As it is the Indian government is hesitant to go ahead since they feel that all assurances given in respect of the Safety of the Pipe Line may not hold in time of hostilities (without an actual War) Pakistan’s Commerce Minister states that Pakistan had agreed in principle in the past to the pipeline but that assurance was to Iran and not to India.
http://www.dawn.com/2002/12/18/top14.htm
**No MFN status for India **
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, Dec 17: Pakistan said on Tuesday it could not initiate dialogue on free trade agreement (FTA) or most favoured nations (MFN) status unless India made tangible progress on political issues particularly the Kashmir dispute.
Commerce Minister Humayun Akhtar Khan told a group of journalists here on Tuesday that any proposal of Free Trade Agreement (FTA), the Most Favoured Nation status or any other step to promote trade with India was impossible in the present circumstances.
He was asked to comment on the Indian prime minister’s statement that Pakistan was dragging its feet on the most favoured nation’s status to India.
“We cannot initiate dialogue with India on trade or grant (it) the MFN status until it starts negotiations on political issues, particularly Kashmir, which is the core dispute between the two countries,” he said.
India wanted the MFN status before talks on political issues, but Pakistan believed political issues, including Kashmir, should be tackled in the first place to have durable trade relations with India, he said.
Asked to comment over the paradox that Pakistan was opposed to trade negotiations till the resolution of political issues but** providing guarantees of security for Iran to India gas pipeline, the minister said that Pakistan had agreed in principle in the past to the pipeline but that assurance was to Iran and not to India.**
To a question, the minister said an official trade delegation would start negotiations with the United States on Dec 27 and then there would be a follow-up delegation from the private sector.
He said the FTA with the United States would be part of negotiations but it was at a preliminary stage and progress was expected during his visit to Washington from Dec 27. “We will seek expansion in trade and enhancement of textile quota, besides talks on the post-2005 scenario when quotas would be removed,” he said.
So PT Ji in these circumstance, in your honest opinion, is there any chance for this Pipe Line Project to supply Natural Gas to India from Turkmenistan an Iran to succeed?
Have a Nice Day.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
**Pakistani Tiger Ji
Pakistan had agreed in principle in the past to the pipeline but that assurance was to Iran and not to India.**
[/quote]
That comment comes from an Indian side, not Pakistan.
Why is it on DAWN? Because we have a free print media.
P.S there is no use of dialouges or given MFN status unless every issue among the two nations resolved.
Pipeline accord coming week.
Arsala sees Pipeline Accord Next Week
ISLAMABAD, Dec 18: The visiting Vice President of Afghanistan, Hedayat Amin Arsala, said here on Wednesday that **substantial progress has been achieved to sign a tripartite agreement next week for laying 1400km-long gas pipeline from Turkeministan to Pakistan costing $3 billion.
“Pakistan, Afghanistan and Turkeministan will be signing a historic agreement at Ashakabad probably on Dec 26 or 27 for laying the gas pipeline from Trukeministan to Pakistan,”** he added.
Speaking at a news conference with Prime Minister’s Adviser on Finance, Shaukat Aziz, the Afghan VP said the Asian Development Bank (ADB) had taken a lot of interest in the project specially by funding its feasibility study.
He said a number of contentious issues in this behalf had already been sorted out.
Answering to a question he said he met President Pervez Musharraf on Tuesday and discussed with him increasing bilateral political and economic cooperation between the two countries.
However, he said he did not discuss a joint operation on borders by Pakistan and Afghan personnel to hunt down Al Qaeda men. “We certainly discussed how to have enhanced cooperation but we did not discuss the joint patrolling of borders for Al Qaeda,” he said.
Responding to another question he said the issue of Afghan transit trade was expected to be settled with the satisfaction of Hamid Karzai government.
The smuggling, the vice president agreed, was a serious issue which needed to be controlled by both Pakistan and Afghan governments. **“But we are very seriously dealing with poppy cultivation in Afghanistan and certain success has been achieved to discourage the people to go without poppy crop.” **
He regretted that reconstruction work in Afghanistan was slow as the pledged international support had not been coming during the last many months. “But from January next we are hoping to have sizable donors’ funding as we have completed the details of a number of development projects,” he said.
In reply to a question he said the remaining Pakistani prisoners were expected to be freed gradually as his government was taking keen interest over the issue.
Talking about increased cooperation, he said Pakistan-Afghan Joint Commission would meet in four to six weeks in Kabul to ensure greater trade and economic cooperation between the two countries.
Adviser on Finance Shaukat Aziz told reporters that $18 million had been given to Afghanistan out of $100 million assistance pledged last year. He hoped that by June 30, considerate financial and technical support would further be extended to Afghanistan. The $100 million support, he pointed out, would be offered during the next four years.
He said during the** first five months (July-Nov) Pakistan had exported goods worth $166 million to Afghanistan compared to $185 million of 2001-2002. **
Similarly, he said, imports from Afghanistan were to the tune of $27 million in the first four months of the current financial year as compared to $55 million of last year.
**Pakistan, he said, was also considering to have another weekly PIA and Ariana flight for Kabul and Islamabad. **
this is quite funny. Listen carefully:
W e d o n o t n e e d i t .
you guys are picking up some trivial idea and making hay in rhetoric. It simply aint gonna matter to India whether the pipeline is built or not.
Hilarious 
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
**That comment comes from an Indian side, not Pakistan.
Why is it on DAWN? Because we have a free print media.**
P.S there is no use of dialouges or given MFN status unless every issue among the two nations resolved.
[/QUOTE]
Pakistani Tiger Ji
Aap nay to kamaal kar diya. Paan kha kar munh lal kar diya.
The statement was made by Pakistan's Commerce Minister Humayun Akhtar Khan while he was addressing a group of Pakistani Journalists. It was not a comment ''from an Indian Side''.
Such statements are sufficient ammunition for those Indians who are against the idea of a Gas Pipe Line passing through Pakistan.
Many Pakistani posters on this forum vehemently reiterate that Pakistan would not allow a Gas Pipe Line to India. However, the Pakistani Government has paid Gazprom a few Million US Dollars to carry out a survey to justify the Building of Such a Pipe Line to India from Iran and Turkmenistan.
Well let us see what happens in the end. We must leave it in the hands of God.
Have a Nice Day
…and you take that seriously, sheesh?
You should remember I’ve posted an article long time before:
Pakistan Supports Iran-India Gas Project
This statement was made by Usman Aminuddin, former Minister of Petroleum and Natural resources. 
From Pakistan’s side, we don’t want politics get involved like we said in SAARC when it get postponed.
Minister on Gas Pipeline.
Gas Pipeline to Boost Cooperation: Minister
ISLAMABAD, Dec 20: Minister for Petroleum and Natural Resources Chaudhry Nauriz Shakoor has said that **Turkmenistan- Pakistan gas pipeline project will help boost regional cooperation and open up multidimensional human resource development activities. **
Talking to the Ambassador of Turkmenistan to Pakistan, Spar Berdiniyazov, who called on him here on Friday, Mr Shakoor said that both the countries were endowed with abundant natural resources and underlined the need to expand and promote cooperation in the oil and gas sector for mutual benefit.
Earlier, Ambassador of Turkey Kemal Gurr called on the minister and discussed matters relating to the Pakistan- Turkey cooperation in the oil and gas sector.
Pakistani Tiger Ji
The statement you are refering to was made by Usman Aminuddin, former Minister of Petroleum and Natural resources on the 3rd of October 2002 or may be 10th of March 2002.
Be that as it may. The statement I have copied in my previous post is made only two or three days ago by the present Commerce Minister.
Thus this statement by the present Commerce Minister cancels all previous staements and the latest statement is in force.
I hope you understand
Have a Nice Day and a Better Weekend.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
Thus this statement by the present Commerce Minister cancels all previous staements and the latest statement is in force.
[/quote]
Nope, it doesn't at all.
Pipeline agreement was started before 9-11. Later it got abondoned because of War in Afghanistan.
People have changed, Govt. has changed but the agreement still exists.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Pakistani Tiger: *
Nope, it doesn't at all.
Pipeline agreement was started before 9-11. Later it got abondoned because of War in Afghanistan.
People have changed, Govt. has changed but the agreement still exists.
[/QUOTE]
Pakistani Tiger Ji
It is difficult to discuss a subject with another person when he/she already has his/her mind made up.
Of course any statement made by a Minister who is currently holding a responsible portfolio in the Government becomes a fact of life.
Please understand that there NO AGREEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.
The whole scheme is still being discussed and shortly the first set of agreement possibly between Turkmenistan, Afghanistan and Pakistan will be signed. THANK GOD FOR THAT. At least the first step has been taken.
If India is to be the end receiver than India should also sign an agreement for which Pakistan will have to give certain guarantees to India. The present Commerce Minister is attributed with the following comment :
Asked to comment over the paradox that Pakistan was opposed to trade negotiations till the resolution of political issues but providing guarantees of security for Iran to India gas pipeline, the minister said that Pakistan had agreed in principle in the past to the pipeline but that assurance was to Iran and not to India.
You will note that that Pakistan has given no guarantees but has agreed in principle in the past to give assurances to Iran and not to India.
As such no guarantees have been made either to Iran or India as no agreements have been signed.
I am as much interested in Pipe Lines to India via Pakistan to India and hope you will treat this matter seriously.
Have a nice day
Again, you must understand all the high government representitives are rich and are big thieves.
Atta-ur-rahman, that thieve has stolen more than 10 billion rupees while buying satellites, components from different countries.
Whoever is the minister for this pipeline is nothing but another musharrafs puppet.
Golden pipeline dream, huh, is that a joke or something?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by bdsurti: *
NO AGREEMENT HAS BEEN MADE.
[/quote]
How the hell agreement could be made when Iran, Pakistan and India haven't been on the table to discuss Pipeline?
Article on Iran-Pakistan-India Pipeline.
Iran to Push For $3.5b Pipeline as Khatami Arrives in Pakistan
**As Iranian President Mohammad Khatami starts a three-day visit to Pakistan Monday, Iran is looking to push the development of a 3.5 billion dollar gas pipeline linking the country’s vast gas reserves to India and Pakistan. **
Khatami, who is meeting his Pakistani counterpart Pervez Musharraf and his prime minister Zafarullah Khan Jamali, will broach the delicate topic which is fraught with financial and strategic risks.
Iranian and Pakistani officials have hailed the pipeline as a project to promote peace and stability in Asia.
But the tensions between longtime rivals Pakistan and India, as well as the gargantuan cost of the project, are considered formidable obstacles.
Musharraf underscored the difficulties in an interview with Iran’s state news agency IRNA.
“We expect that Iran will convince India to accept the security guarantees furnished by Pakistan becuse we cannot convince New Delhi” ourselves, the Pakistani leader said, alluding to the tensions festering between the nations over Kashmir.
Musharraf’s prime minister, Jamali, while ambivalent about helping India, said **“in the name of the interests of Iran and Pakistan and all the region I accept this project and believe it will be beneficial.” **
The project entails the construction of a 1,600 kilometer (1,000 mile) pipeline from southern Iran to the Pakistani province of Sindh on the Arabian Sea before traveling on another 1,000 kilometers to India.
For Iran, which holds the world’s largest gas reserves after Russia, the Indian market is as important as the European market which it hopes to serve one day through its pipeline with Turkey.