my sisters and my ami graduated from pak (King Edward Medical College, Army Medical College (AMC), Rawalpindi Medical College (RMC) ). And my bro in law is also a doc. :~) (As far how hard one has to study in a medical school goes..) Hmm the way I remember it one of my sisters use to study a lot while the other one..not that much. However they both studied a lot compared to me hehe :~)
But in general they say you have to study a lot in a medical profession. Not that its hard but it sure is time consuming and requires a lot of consistency. Those THICK (and i mean it :~) ) books are enough to put off a guy like me :-D But i think its worth it and in particular if you enjoy it. I think, getting into a med school is VERY competitive. But once you get in and if you are an average student (and you study) you can hopefully survive the 5 yrs.
The important thing for you to decide is whether you want to stay in the u.s. or not. Because after getting your medical degree from pak you still have to do the residency (or something) in the u.s again. England might be another option if necessary. A lot of my ami's friends came to the u.s after they got their med degree's from pak. But that was a long time ago and things were different then. They are doing quite well over here.
In pak, you mainly have two choices of schools. Private and Public. In private schools there is only one name worth mentioning i.e. Agha Khan. Agha Khan is recognized abroad too and they frequently send their students to the u.s and i think england too. They prepare their students with a western mindset meaning its easier for their graduates to transfer to the u.s. Its in Karachi. The people whom I know who went to other private schools was because they could not get admission in the public ones. Believe me its very tough to get admission and it is surprising how keen people are to become doctors.
For the public schools, there are several top schools. I believe the entrance criteria for foreign students is different. I remember my sis who was in amc mentioning that a lot of foreign students were in her class (hmmm i think one of the reasons was that pak med schools are known in asia and you get to graduate in five yrs.)
My sis in rmc had a friend who was born and raised in the u.s and she came to pak for med education . As far as I can remember she was doing fine in her studies and graduated at the right time.
While selecting a college make sure you give it a lot of thought and keep a lot of things in mind. For example the environment, location and all that. This is going to be a big decision for you. Make sure you talk to somebody whom you know back in pak and whom you can trust and is responsible. :~)
[Well i know all this cause' thats what doc's talk about...well mostly..particularly on the dinner table...so its better to join in :-P :-D actually i remember my sis's always had so many stories to tell hehe ..good old days]
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by X_Communist: *
No test for Gov't med schools for us foreigners. You either get in on self finance (good sum of money)...or tehy give u a treat adn slack off ur tuition fees so then you pay the same as a regular paki student. this is dependent on ur gpa/highschool percentage adn how they convert it to pakistani equivalency in Islmbd.
The lectures are in english but overall it is basically independent studying so its just you and the books. Yes, teh text is also in english..mostly american authors.
If you can afford it tho, you should go for Aga Khan or Baqai. They put your money to good use. You'll have to give your SATs for the pvt ones adn the scores for SAT I range upto 1250 ( i think) and for SAT II - 750. I think the AKU website has all the details.
humsa --danngit. small world after all. how come i dun know you? I goto DOW.
[/QUOTE]
thanx yaar. thats good for me, i'm an independent studier. but i hope we get to ask some questions during lecture, or no? and does the professor ask students questions and pick on them like here, or does he just talk all day? and do u by chance know ne thing about the hostels there? how the enviorment is? tell me one thing though, was it a drastic change for u in terms of studying? i mean is that all u do day and night now? ne ways sorry for the burst of questions but thanx again to.
The usual criteria and principles of policy governing the grant of equivalence of qualifications followed by the Higher Education Commission are as follows:
(a) Accredited status of the degree awarding institution. In recognizing foreign degrees, the accredited status of the university concerned and its incorporation by law of the land is taken into account as well as the reputed status of the institution.
(b) Duration of study. The period in which a particular course is covered including school education are important strands for determining the status of a qualification.
(c) Course contents and examination standards. The written syllabi & education standards constitute important criteria. A written syllabus read in conjunction with the books recommended for study may give a good idea of the course.
(d) Bilateral agreements. Bilateral agreements also form the basis of equivalence of qualifications. A number of bilateral agreements have been signed by the Ministry of Education, Government of Pakistan, which is guided in its dealing by the views of universities and the HEC. These agreements provide the provision for recognition of qualifications of the signing parties on reciprocal basis. Equivalence of degrees under these agreements have so far been signed with Bulgaria, Iran, Romania, Saudi Arabia, Thailand, and Commonwealth of Independent States of Russia.
Don't fret about the lectures. Last year I had people sign my attendance for 2/3 of the course. Now I realize which proffessors are better than the others so I make it an effort to attend their lectures.
U can ask questions and annoy a sulky teacher or you can ask question and make a special spot with an intelligent teacher. (if u know what i mean). No, they usually don't pick on students.
The hostels are separate for guys and girls. I dunno about boys hostel but for girls, it's located right next door. If you want some detailed info, pm me or something.
Ur in highschool now? Where at?
Humsa-- Alrite. KMDC, no? I'm fins to check up on this girl myself..can't believe I missed out on this one...such a small city..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by X_Communist: *
Don't fret about the lectures. Last year I had people sign my attendance for 2/3 of the course. Now I realize which proffessors are better than the others so I make it an effort to attend their lectures.
U can ask questions and annoy a sulky teacher or you can ask question and make a special spot with an intelligent teacher. (if u know what i mean). No, they usually don't pick on students.
The hostels are separate for guys and girls. I dunno about boys hostel but for girls, it's located right next door. If you want some detailed info, pm me or something.
Ur in highschool now? Where at?
Humsa-- Alrite. KMDC, no? I'm fins to check up on this girl myself..can't believe I missed out on this one...such a small city..
[/QUOTE]
wow u seem like u have fun there. my mom says that there is no uniform but u have to have wear a white coat. i don't know if thats right or not though. u seem like u actually have life. i was told that med students only study day and night. if wanna pm the info about the hostels and other stuff than that would be great. thanx for ur help
I like ur mom :) nah, no labcoat...only when ur attending a practical or when yer in third year onwards, attending wards.
You didnt mention if u are a hs grad or still studying....b/c you have to go thru the local pakistani embassy for admissions into the gov't colleges here.
And yes, I laughed at teh idea of studyin 8 hours/day...but 3months before exams....it hits you hard....gotta dedicate atleast 5 near exam time.
do you want info on residence available for boys or something?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by X_Communist: *
I like ur mom :) nah, no labcoat...only when ur attending a practical or when yer in third year onwards, attending wards.
You didnt mention if u are a hs grad or still studying....b/c you have to go thru the local pakistani embassy for admissions into the gov't colleges here.
And yes, I laughed at teh idea of studyin 8 hours/day...but 3months before exams....it hits you hard....gotta dedicate atleast 5 near exam time.
do you want info on residence available for boys or something?
[/QUOTE]
i'm a high school grad and i'm a girl, so i need info for the girls residence. thanx.
Hum Sa: Lol, yeah not everyone was a tommy, but that was the general perception:). I don't think any Government medical College in Pakistan has ever completed a 5 year MBBS in 5 years!
I think there are a lot of misconceptions here that I might be able to clear up. I'll talk about the main points. 1. Why Pakistan 2. The admission process 3. Are you a "real" doctor and 4. The experience. 5. The drawbacks
I'm assuming this would be directed to all foreign students, of pakistani origin, because this is the only way you'll be allowed. Please note that this is only for govt. schools. Private schools in pakistan are a waste of your time and money... except Aga Khan of course. Baqai is only recomended if you have a lot of money and expect to be around only rich people where the teachers expect some money from you as well and you are a snob working your way though. And shifa isnt totally recognized yet. People from private schools besides aga khan arent considered "real" doctors in pakistan.
Why Pakistan?
There are a lot of reasons. Comparativly, in usa, you have to do pre-med or at least a lot of pre-med classes, get a very high gpa, study and take mcats, compete, apply and interview at a million places, and then IF and once you get admission, figure out how to pay for the entire thing!!! Then you have another 4 years to go after your 4 years of pre med. So calculate pre med + the med and you have like.. Maybe 300,000 dollars after food, car, expenses, apartment rent, tuition, books, fees, etc etc. Now.. Pakistan. As soon as your done with high school in usa, as long as you took Physics, Biology, and Chemistry, you can have those grades converted into a Pakistan "pre-med" certificate, apply to med school, and in 5 years, your done! 2 years of mostly classroom work, 2 years hospital, and a final year on reasearch, etc. Even though you will probably be on a foreign seat, which can cost either 5000, 7000, or 10,000 dollars, depending on where you will go, just imagine that you skipped pre med in usa, and all that tuition, you will not be paying car insurance in usa anymore, or having to pay expensive rent if you live somewhere, and your food is a lot cheaper. Plus another thing is, no matter if your pathan, punjabi, etc, your a muslim, in a muslim country, in your own country at that, and you can polish up on your language, culture, etc. Plus most students usually find someone to get married to within 5 years.
The admission process
Like I explained just now, youll have to have your grades turned into pakistani marks, and the people will automatically CUT 20% of your score (they started this like 8 years ago so you would not have marks high enough to compete with locals and would HAVE to go on a foreign seat, also called "self finance") Once you have your equivalent pre med certificate, you are applying for a self finance seat, (which you pay in dollars already mentioned PLUS the local rs fee, around 10,000 rupees) and you are competing against OTHER FOREIGN students for admission. So basically, even a really low scoring person (you gotta be at least above 60%) can get into any govt school depending on who applies to the school. You apply at the Economic Affairs division in Islamabad, and you mark a preference of 1,2,3, next to the college you want, and depending on who applies to where, and your preference, you are selected into a school, and you usually have no choice in the matter once you are nominated into a certain school.
Are you a real doctor?
Well that depends. If you pass all 5 years, you are a real doctor in pakistan and you are awarded the MBBS degree. Now, people are always like, oh no, dont go to pakistan cuz you have to take a big hard test when you get back. Well their right and wrong. Its called the USMLE and even american doctors in american colleges have to take the USMLE and they usually take it during their medical school whereas most pakistanis from pakistan usually take it 1 or 2 years after they graduate because they have to start from the begining 5 years and study everything all over again, whereas in america, they take the tests after they finish certain areas. So how do pakistanis fair on the usmle? Well, really good actually. I know a few people who got 99, 98, 93, and 85%, which is really great. You dont have to stay after the 5 years, and do more. But most do so they can study for the usmle because there are classes here for it and stuff. Then once you pass your usmle, both steps, most will try to go abroad and get into certain residency programs.
The Experience
Well, I'll tell you straight off the facilities are garbage. Even king edward, the "best" has a pretty sad building. At first glance, you'll be like where did I come. Almost every building, room, has paint peeling off, there is a funky smell, air condition is almost non existant, the lights go off sometimes for no reason. The schools are so cheap skate that they dont even provide soap in the disection halls or bathrooms, you have to bring your own if you want clean hands. Almost everyone will think that since you are a foreigner, your really rich and you dont plan on studying at all and stuff like that. A lot of students who know urdu pretend to dont so people wont pick on them, and some of the students who do know urdu pretend to be local pakistanis so they arent singled out as foreigners. Its a totally different experience than in usa, because the professors here arent real teachers, they never learned HOW to teach. They will pick on you, call on you, embarass you, talk really funny where you cant understand them, they will write something on the chalk board and stand in front of it afterwards so you cant see it, they will go over material fast just to say they went over it, and then you are expected to memorize and know everything as well as they do. Then it comes to the tests. Which count, and then again, dont count cuz they say they do but they dont cuz only the end of the year exams count. The test system.. to say it nicely.. SUCKS. After you've studied ALLLL this material, they give you like 5 questions, which are like 8 words long, and your supposed to write like 6 pages for every question. And you never really know what their going to ask you and they'll expect you to make your answers in outline form and make really big bright headings with marker so they can read it easily and grade your test fast, otherwise they'll just mark it fail and wont bother reading it. Plus you have verbal tests here in which a professor and you sit down together and they ask you whatever they feel like asking you. Not trying to discourage anyone, but you'll get used to it after a while.
The drawbacks
Well, amost everythin I talked about in the experience section. You have to live in pakistan, you dont really get any major vacation except for 1 month in the first year, thats it. So 5 years you gotta be committed. Did I mention you have to go to school on saturdays? Thats right.. 8 am to 2 pm, 6 hours a day, 6 days a week, almost 5 years around .. straight.. And forget about having fun on Sundays, you dont have time for anything else except studyin. Another drawback is the heat. It makes life miserable. Also, the professors dont follow any particular outline, so you really dont know which book to study from at first, and they dont follow the books in any order. Most paki students use indian and pakistani written medical books which dont explain anything, just lists the stuff the profs will teach, in the same order, that way you just go through and memorize. Also, dont expect to be actually taught anything, you gotta study everything yourself and memorize it and if you dont understand it, tough luck cuz the profs here hate answering questions, even they say, ask me anything, they get pissed off if you ask anything.
Well, thats my 2 paisas! If you need something, message me cuz I prolly wont be checkin this thread.. Later.
X-commi where the hell did u go? i sent u a pm u tooth and u never replied back. u better send me a mail or somethin fast otherwise i'm gonna come there and slaughter u. by the way ur madres came over yesterday, she came for ur sis's appointment, just letting u know she's a lot better now mashallah. ne ways she was telling us how u have too much fun down at clifton and all. just wait till i come man, aleef ki tarha sida kardongi tumhe bachu.
Medical students in US also have to take another exam to practise there.
Its known as USMLE ( United states medical liscensing Exam) and they find it as hard as anyone else.
From the point of view of medical colleges in Pakistan, AKU has got a system very much related to the American system. Other colleges are changing their system as well from subjective type of paper to objective type ( MCQs).
Especially after the establishment of UHS ( University of Health Sciences) the whole process will be speeded up. I've heard that it will take exams in the MCQ fashion. But for now, it is quite a controversial matter as there has been a writ against UHS and Supereme court of Paksitan has suspended the university.
P.S. This university is attached to Sheikh Zayed Hospital in Lahore and its teh first government controlled medical university.
the six page exam is now Multiple Choice Questions.
And b/c the teachers suck, u really don't have to attend lectures 8-2 Monday to Saturday....u just hafta make some friends who can sign ur attendance in ur absence if ur not in the mood for lectures.
oh and you still have to get ur own gloves if u wanna be brave adn dissect a dead body.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH......GROSS!!!!! once im a doctor, i'm giving my degree to my parents and i'm never gonna be a doctor again. i'm gonna be a singer like abrar and salman ahmed. ;)
NE WAYS X-COMMI HURRY AND MEET ME ON MSN SOON I HAVE SOME VERY IMPORTANT NEWS TO TELL U.....U'LL BE SHOCKED!!!!!!!!!!!