Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Oh no not at all. I've been thinking to open such a thread. The conversation just gave me a lot to think about though :)
Oh ok, good stuff. :)
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
plz enlighten us, how does this better quality of life make you superior *to *us third worlders?
As I said in my post, **it's our quality of life that is superior, not us. Most of us do not have to worry about load shedding, clean water, etc. Also, I never claimed that there is anything wrong with being a "third-worlder".
So you have assumed that people living in Pakistan are completely ignorant since they probably don't even know what an 'international image' is to begin with, right?
No you have assumed this.
And in this age and time one has to go settle in another country to find such things out right?
You have to be outside of Pakistan to see an international image of it. What I mean by international image is opinion of Pakistan by people outside of Pakistan. Pakistanis who live outside of Pakistan are in contact with people who form these opinions, and that is why I think they have a better understanding of what non-Pakistanis think of their country.
And also one needs to go outside to look into their country's problems in order to understand them better.
I think that Pakistanis living in Pakistan have become desensitized to the havoc there to a certain extent. Pakistanis abroad are more sensitive to it and perhaps see certain things as being problematic that people residing in Pakistan don't.
Now that makes sense. We living here don't know how to improve ourselves... so we need to ask for advice from those living outside, since the moment they left Pakistan their brains had grown out of their heads and they suddenly became wiser.
I actually said that people in Pakistan have a lot of potential to improve their lives. People in Pakistan certainly should take advice from other nations to better their lives.
Wait, how do you know someone living in Pakistan hasn't experienced different cultures. You don't have to settle abroad for the rest of your life to have such experiences. Can there be a worse generalization... saying that all the people living in Pakistan are close-minded dumbos!!
I never said that all Pakistanis are close-minded dumbos. Please reread my post. I said that, from my experience, Pakistanis abroad tend to be more open-minded compared to the people in Pakistan.
Someone who has never stepped foot outside of Pakistan has not experienced a different culture. I live in a multicultural country and meet people from different parts of the world everyday. This cannot happen in Pakistan. Also, I have to coexist along side people who think very differently than me and that requires me to be more open-minded.
Firstly how are all these only the problems of people living in Pakistan and not the expats. The day they decided to leave the country and settle in another one, they also left the responsibility of being a good Pakistani citizen? From then onwards no one could blame them for anything wrong with the country? You think that's fair?
Again, plz reread my post. Expat or not, I believe that Pakistanis do not do enough for their country. I never claimed that Pakistanis abroad should not be blamed for the condition of Pakistan. I just think that Pakistanis living at home are in better position to bring about change.
Well if you have abandoned it then why do you even care about what happens or does not happen there.It's none of your business.
We have family there. Pakistan is our homeland and we want to see it prosper.
But if you do consider yourself Paksitani then look down on yourself as well for not doing anything for your country as you are also a part of them.
This applies to all Pakistanis including those living in Pakistan. We cannot just brush our problems aside and pretend that they don't exist because they make us feel insecure. Being blind patriots does not get us anywhere.
I will end by saying that the founder of Pakistan was someone who spent time abroad himself.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
^ Well said!
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Jerks are everywhere, the elites in Pakistan who talk like they're American but have never been outside the country and the freshies abroad who look down on their own culture. We shouldn't let them get to us. I have seen people who left Pakistan for a better life, achieved that and yet they are still pining for a return to their homeland. We should consider ourselves lucky we have what a lot of overseas Pakistanis don't have, a life worth living in Pakistan.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
^ @ Princess121
It seems I have joined a Royal forum. Everyone is a Princess or a Prince or other royalty related name.
Pfft.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Most overseas Pakistanis are too busy in their lives working hard and competing with people from all over the world. Unlike our brethren in Pakistan, we don't have the privilege of living in a house fully paid by our father or ancestors, we don't have the luxury of taking life easy for a couple of months. We need to make sure the household is running because most of us are not in a joint family system where bills are automatically paid and there is always food on the table. Overseas Pakistanis work hard to ensure a good life for themselves and it doesn't come easy.
Agreed with the majority of your post apart from this paragraph. Our average brethren in Pakistan work their arses off for 15+ hours everyday in the most undesirable conditions to earn a fraction of what we earn from our daily 8 to 5 routine in our air conditioned offices. A farmer who sweats all day long doing manual labour deserves a better life than any of us since he's the most hard working than any of us.
"Bills are automatically paid and food is always on the table".... pffttt who're you kidding mere bhai?!
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
This is exactly what I observed when I joined this forum. Some of them never miss an opportunity to throw veiled insults at you the moment they find anything Pakistani in you. And there are some who are like sniffing your words (to find out if you are really in Pakistan) so they can give an "appropriate" response.
I try to ignore this kind of behavior because the more you confront it, the more they will do it (and the veil gets thinner :D).
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Agreed with the majority of your post apart from this paragraph. Our average brethren in Pakistan work their arses off for 15+ hours everyday in the most undesirable conditions to earn a fraction of what we earn from our daily 8 to 5 routine in our air conditioned offices. A farmer who sweats all day long doing manual labour deserves a better life than any of us since he's the most hard working than any of us.
"Bills are automatically paid and food is always on the table".... pffttt who're you kidding mere bhai?!
I am not talking about the poor farmers who are caught in the pathetic feudal system and are working day and night to make ends meet. Neither am I talking about the orphans or women who are working 24/7 to be able to eat their next meal. My post was addressed to the young upper middle class urban folks who make it seem as if we overseas Pakistanis have nothing better to do but have a condescending attitude towards Pakistan. These are the people I have come across personally and their laid back approach to life really surprises me. They don't have a mortgage or car payments or student loans and they don't have to worry about cleaning their bathrooms yet they make it seem that we're the ones looking down upon them?!
For those people, bills are paid and food is always ready on the table. Granted they aren't the majority in Pakistan but they are the ones who come here to post and judge overseas Pakistanis to be some pompous, ignorant people. The poor who ARE working hard to make ends meet don't even know how to use a computer so they were definitely not my audience in my post.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
I don’t know what to say guys. Apparently the upper class Pakistanis are posting here to judge overseas Pakistanis and the overseas Pakistanis aren’t acting any different. Apparently, I’m only of Pakistani origin, not really a Pakistani… so why should I care? I’m going to bed. 
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
people in paksitan thnk that paks living abroad have a superiority complex because actually they are the ones with an inferiority complex ..
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
You just love being a beejamalo everywhere dont you? 
Addressing the OP:
Up until a few years ago, I wasnt aware of any attitudes or differences between Overseas Pakistanis or Pakistanis. I was always eager to learn about the culture there and get to know my family. When I got married, all of my ex-husband’s social circle consisted of men and women who were new to the US. I was excited to make friends with them and had many davats at my place for them. It was fun.
As we got to know each other, I noticed they actually looked down on me. Yeah. They thought Pakistanis in the US grow up with no religious education, tameez, manners, domestic training, adab, tehzeeb, etc etc etc. We were all bold, advanced, out there and raised like cattle…and it was so surprising that Bhabi (me) didnt want to go to casinos and clubs with them. Ive never come across any of this in my entire life until I got married…it was so shocking and took many many insults from their side to get me to open my mouth and fight back.
If overseas Pakistanis have a negative image of Pakistanis (quite honestly though…aside from those women and people who have shown themselves to be narrow-minded and mean…I cant say I resent them or look down on them)…its not like people there look at us with adoring eyes either. They are equally judgmental about us.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
The problems occur when what is said is just a criticism for criticism, and how a well meant criticism perceived.
Generalizing each other's acts brings even more problems.
Overseas Pakistani may mean well when point out the problems since they now see the issues from different angle, and those who live in Pakistan who may feel helpless already ( and maybe aware of problems) but when they hear someone pointing out to them they may think. "Yeah right, what did you do when you were here?"
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
I have seen those overseas Pakistanis or Pakistani origin people have such complexes when interacting with Pakistan based Pakistanis. Usually these types of people come from nothing (education/poverty) and think that they have made it big by owning a takeaway or gas station.
I am not going to detach myself from my heritage, I was not born in Pakistan and have lived most of my life outside the country, however I consider myself Pakistani first. That's where my ancestors were born and where they are buried. While I am critical of Pakistan's governance, never its people. Pakistani people are some of most talented, resourceful people who deserve a better country than this...hijacked by corruption, fundamentalism, and negligence.
What Pakistan suffers from is resource misallocation, not a lack of talent and Allah's grace.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
When I went to Pakistan, I felt like a complete fob! No one would speak to me in Urdu, my clothes weren't as baysharam as theirs and I was the only one to wear a hijab in my family, nor can I make or afford 20 dresses every 2-3 months. They are way ahead of me.
So this is what I think: The reason overseas Pakistani's feel superior to the Pakistani's residence is because when you go to Pakistan. People try and act western by speaking English, acting like they live a American life and refusing to act Desi or Muslims. So the overseas Pakistani's see this and realizes their value and begins to feel proud.
and now I will shut up :D
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Come on now? I was just in Islamabad, Pekhawar and I see more women wearing headscarfs than last year and didn’t see “baysharam” clothes on the streets. Yea I saw more revealing clothes at fashion show, even hit a house party but thats NOTHING compared to crap that I see in the US/UK/Can. Maybe you saw some OUTLIERS or were in bad company or something. I mean yea Pakistan has prostitution, but its still more under wraps than this:
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
oh…so its you who coined this term for me all around?? 
It was quite obvious from that post…and my ‘WE’ and 'THEY" theory is working fine…
there are all kinds of Overseas pakistanis…but the thing is…the subject of the thread is a particular type…not all…why the good ones are getting offended when they are not even the topic of discussion?? 
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
The map is by someone called Adrian White, coincidence? I think not!
To the OP. Some people are ill informed, others are unaware of their own prejudices. Then there’s a percentage that are just plain unpleasant and like to find fault or view others through a negative prism, in order to feel better about themselves. I don’t know how this can be changed, other than being assertive in your response/dealings with them.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
As I said in my post, it's our quality of life that is superior, not us. Most of us do not have to worry about load shedding, clean water, etc. Also, I never claimed that there is anything wrong with being a "third-worlder".
No you have assumed this.
You have to be outside of Pakistan to see an international image of it. What I mean by international image is opinion of Pakistan by people outside of Pakistan. Pakistanis who live outside of Pakistan are in contact with people who form these opinions, and that is why I think they have a better understanding of what non-Pakistanis think of their country.
I think that Pakistanis living in Pakistan have become desensitized to the havoc there to a certain extent. Pakistanis abroad are more sensitive to it and perhaps see certain things as being problematic that people residing in Pakistan don't.
I actually said that people in Pakistan have a lot of potential to improve their lives. People in Pakistan certainly should take advice from other nations to better their lives.
I never said that all Pakistanis are close-minded dumbos. Please reread my post. I said that, from my experience, Pakistanis abroad tend to be more open-minded compared to the people in Pakistan. Someone who has never stepped foot outside of Pakistan has not experienced a different culture. I live in a multicultural country and meet people from different parts of the world everyday. This cannot happen in Pakistan. Also, I have to coexist along side people who think very differently than me and that requires me to be more open-minded.
Again, plz reread my post. Expat or not, I believe that Pakistanis do not do enough for their country. I never claimed that Pakistanis abroad should not be blamed for the condition of Pakistan. I just think that Pakistanis living at home are in better position to bring about change.
We have family there. Pakistan is our homeland and we want to see it prosper.
This applies to all Pakistanis including those living in Pakistan. We cannot just brush our problems aside and pretend that they don't exist because they make us feel insecure. Being blind patriots does not get us anywhere.
I will end by saying that the founder of Pakistan was someone who spent time abroad himself.
Now this post is very different from the first one. I am sorry, but from the first post it seemed you were like an epic example of such individuals who knew what was best for us, better than us. I can claim that I know what's best for my country better than you and that I can do it while staying right here, directly under fire.
Though I still disagree with a lot of your assumptions about Pakistanis living in Pakistan, but that's your opinion. I still think we can understand our problems better, because we are the one's going through them- the load-shedding, water-hygiene etc. I don't have to go somewhere else to see what my basic problems are... simple, and an international image comes quite later in that list, cuz I know what my people need most importantly. The person working at the gas station does not care what people from other countries think about Pakistan, all he cares about is how will he make the ends meet.
We can definitely not brush our problems aside... I don't remember anyone here saying that we should. I am not sure who are these blind patriots you are talking about, but patriotism is good especially when it is used to bring a positive change, otherwise it keeps us gelled together.
Yes our founder did spend time abroad, but he came and lived in Pakistan to solve the problems of the Muslims of the sub-continent. And you're confusing two things here - to travel around the world and gain experience or to go for educational aims is different from actually settling down in another country.
Yet again, this was never aimed at all the overseas Pakistanis as I made it clear in the start. Only the people who put their part of responsibilities also on the ones living in Pakistan to improve it. How are we answerable to them?!! And why aren't they answerable to us?
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Wait, I don’t see how is that an offense. When you go settle somewhere else, they would probably have a different culture. And whether one follows that culture depends on the individual’s love for his/her own culture or their religious affiliations etc. So if someone does assume that you could be going with the flow, it’s simply based on this differences in cultures.
However I do agree that there are people like that in our country who judge too much based on these differences, as in looking down on someone just because they probably have lost all their cultural values after moving away, which is equally wrong. Yet again I am pretty sure they are a minority and I still have to meet someone who hates on overseas based on such reasons.
Re: Overseas Pakistanis
Well, if you dont find the image of an overseas Pakistani offensive like above then how can our image of Pakistanis be offensive to you guys?
Thinking of western born Pakistanis as wild is offensive…does not matter which way you put it. Ive been told by Pakistanis on this very forum that overseas Pakistanis are “na idhar ke na udhar ke”… How is that not offensive? The term FOB exists to describe a fresh import but the term ABCD also exists to describe us. Its a two way street here PakWoman…its not fair to call us judgmental and consider everyone there as open minded and forgiving. They’re not and judge us just as harshly as you may find people here.