Re: Out of Kargil
This is ‘WWW’; means ‘world wide web’
Re: Out of Kargil
So what? Even Nawaz Sharif “took credit.”
Show me one neutral link that says - Indian Army was unable to evict the intruders and only the withdrawal took effect.
Re: Out of Kargil
India did lose upto 3500 soldiers in Kargil, so so they needed saving from America and others to avoid more bloody losses.
**Clinton takes credit for Kargil withdrawal **
LONDON, JUNE 2. In a startling revelation, the former U.S. President, Mr. Bill Clinton, said Pakistan withdrew its troops'' from Kargil at his insistence and it could be one of the reasons for the ouster of the former Pakistan Prime Minister, Mr. Nawaz Sharif, in a coup. Narrating the sequence of events leading to troops withdrawal from Kargil back to the Line of Control (LoC) by Pakistan in 1999, he said, then Prime Minister, Mr. Nawaz Sharif, called and wanted to come and see me with a delegation on July 4, our Independence day. I said...You have to know two things before you come. Don't come if you are not prepared for these two things. You cannot come for this emergency meeting unless you are prepared to withdraw Pakistani troops back over the LoC,'' Mr. Clinton told the BBC World in a special debate broadcast today. And the second thing is you cannot expect me now to say I intend to mediate in this conflict because the Indians will not have it,‘’ he said. So he (Mr. Sharif) said he understood it, he came to Washington... He tried to talk me out of my position and eventually I talked him back towards the phone conversation ... And he withdrew from the LoC.'' I have always thought that one of the reasons may be that he was deposed because he did it… After the country was whipped up into a fervour. There were other reasons but I think that was a factor. But, he did the right thing,‘’ Mr. Clinton said. Mr. Sharif’s action must have marked the beginning of a cooling off of the process that has led the Indian Prime Minister to propose a resumption of the dialogue which apparently is about to resume.'' Reiterating that he regarded Kashmir as the most dangerous place in the world, he said he would have been happy to devote more time on trying to resolve the Kashmir conflict than most other foreign policy problems. But, if both sides don’t want you, there’s no point in being involved, because nothing is going to happen.‘’
Re: Out of Kargil
Well, this one is our corner of the world.. And your free to come and go.. But since you choose to come, then that shows that you have atleast some interest in our affairs, contrary to your other claim. Dont take this the wrong way, your welcome to stay regardless, but stop claiming to not be interested in our affairs when you clearly are…
So what are you doing here?
Re: Out of Kargil
Kashmir is our rallying call and its your biggest raping, kidnapping, murdering orgy fest.
Khalistan has nothing to do with me, I dont care about Indian politics.. Thats the concern of the Sikhs, but best of luck to them.
Re: Out of Kargil
I think the other guppie provided you with a link…
So what else you got?
Re: Out of Kargil
No one provided me any link to say what I asked for. Try again.
Re: Out of Kargil
Kashmir is also the place where you train and send people who murder babies, slit the throats of innocents and throw acid on the faces of women. BTW, PA loves raping its people and awarding the rapists as Capt. Hammad from Sui can proudly say.
Your jihadis are as much or more guilty than IA in terms of human rights violations.
Don’t you guys get a hint when the whole world refuses to support your cause?
Re: Out of Kargil
Dont you get a Hint when no one supports your cause..? How are you any differnt from us when you train your army for pretty much the same purpose? Atleasr we have the excuse that the militants our not a profesional army.. What excuse do you have? Your army is supposed to be professional and trianed.. You prove yourselves to be the same as any other terrorsit group..
As for the Army guy who supposedly raped that girl… First of all, you as democratic freedom loving nation should know that no man guilty until proven so..
So I refuse to say whether the man is guilty or innocent unless proven. Besides, Indias not exactly innocent when it comes to letting criminals go scot free. Wonder Modhi bhai is still around? Any other country and he would have gotten the boot. So dont give me that lame bull sh1t talwar..
Re: Out of Kargil
I think the link was the one in which Clinton took the credit look up there... :)
Re: Out of Kargil
Look at the world today man. Not one country is asking India for UN resolutions or vacate the valley. That is exactly what India wants. Status quo territorially.
You guys want territory, but the whole world, including most of OIC supports “sanctity of the LoC”
As to your comment on the IA, that is a joke. IA is as much as or more of a professional force as compared to PA. The human rights violations by Indian forces in Kashmir are no worse than what your army did in South Waziristan or Dera Bugti or US forces in Iraq. No army trains to rape.
BTW, many IA men have been punished for their acts of indiscipline. Can you say the same about PA? Sui rapist gets cover from Musharraf. HRC report criminals get promoted after 1971.
Climb down man.
Re: Out of Kargil
Yes where does it say that IA was unable to evict PA? Clinton did succeed in getting the remaining posts cleared, that;s for sure. But between June 1 and July 5, IA cleared all forward posts and a significant # of rear posts in all 4 sectors of Kargil.
Re: Out of Kargil
Buddy no one recognizes Kashmir as anything but disputed. No one cares about the UN resolution, even we dont insist on it. But no one see’s you as anything as a part of the problem. Thats why they ask you to come to comramise that is in the favor of all.
AND your bull knows no limit. In Dera Bugti we were fighting terrorsits no raping women and murdering innocent people. South Waziristan is no differnt. You dont know Sh1t about these places, your army would piss their pants fighting their so mind your own. In Kashmir you know as well as I do what your army done. They are about as profesional as a bunch of drunk adolescents. So stop trying to defend these scum bags and admit that what you did there was no better then what the militants have done..
I think where done with this topic..
Allah Hafiz
Re: Out of Kargil
Anything could have happened… But its a matter of interpretation.
You believe what you want if that helps you sleep at night..
Re: Out of Kargil
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Kargil
In late May 1999, Islamic guerrillas covertly and overtly backed by Pakistan squatted on vantage heights in the Indian controlled region. This led to mobilisation of Indian troops. ** The conflict was ultimately resolved as Prime Minister Nawaz Shareef buckled under pressure from the US president Bill Clinton and ordered a retreat of all Pakistani forces from Kargil. **
Re: Out of Kargil
As I said previously India did lose upto 3500 soldiers in Kargil in just a month or so, hence they needed the likes of Clinton to save them.
Now you have the Indian’s talking about making the LOC “meaningless and irrelevant”, which is exactly what the Kargil conflict really showed as well. The same Indian leaders who swore to wage a “decisive war” against Pakistan a few years ago, are now kissing ass from Karachi to Kashmir, and singing the same peace tunes. It’s good to see how SOFT the Indian’s have become since their experience in Kargil.
Re: Out of Kargil
Beta no one is denying that Nawaz went crying to Washington under Musharraf’s pressure and ordered the pullback. But where does it say how many posts the retreating PA men were holding when the retreat was ordered?
There were 132 posts. According to US military academic institution’s research, IA had cleared over 80 of them between June 1 and July 5, 1999. RAND corp’s research says “most” of the posts were cleared by IA.
Reza, You are on my ignore list. I will not read nor respond to any of your posts. Don’t waste energy by addressing me, if you are doing it currently.
Re: Out of Kargil
Nope. Something specific happened. It is all documented. IA had cleared all but 2 posts in Dras, most of Batalik and Mushkoh but only the forward ones in Kaksar.
This is documented in many places.
There will be a book on Kargil written jointly by US, Indian and Pakistani experts due to come out this year. It’s military analysis part written by Col(Redt) Jack Gill of US National Defense University, Ft.McNair. It will confirm the above.
PA has deliberately lied about the whole operation because the Generals don’t want to admit that they messed up. They want to rewrite history like they did in 1965 when they wrote of Djinns and Farishtay fighting along with PA tank columns 
Re: Out of Kargil
Show me one country that insists on India giving up land? US is pusing hard for LoC as border.
Heard of Captain Hammad the rapist? Or about the barbaric attack on the Hindu Mohallah that murdered 30 odd innocents?
I know more than you about these places buddy. Independent reporting of PA’s ops in South Waziristan has revealed large scale atrocities, imprisoning of women and children as hostages, bombing of jirgas etc.
http://www.dawn.com/2004/09/22/nat17.htm
There are many other reports. BTW, India allows foreign journalists all over Kashmir. PA has banned reporters from the tribal areas since 2004. Why is that?
Also, PA has lost more men in Wana than the “terrorists” they claim to have killed.
IA’s performance in Kashmir is as good as or better than PA’s performance in Waziristan and Sui or US forces in Iraq. Every Human Rights agency that criticizes IA’s role in Kashmir heaps the same criticism on PA and US Army.
Me too.
Re: Out of Kargil
India has withdrawn tens of thousands of troops from Kashmir already, is discussing with Pakistan the withdrawal of the rest of the Indian army i.e. diplomatically couched as “demilitarization”, dropped it’s passport requirements for people to travel within Kashmir, and effectively recognised the 'State of Azad Jammu and Kashmir", allowed separatists to talk and visit Pakistan, and started talking about making the LOC “meaningless and irrelevant”. From what I have been privy to, I hear India has become even SOFTER than that, and will concede a plebiscite for Kashmir after 10 years. I suggest aficionados read the “Good Friday” agreement on Northern Ireland, and just insert the word Kashmir where necessary, and then you will have a replica of the upcoming agreement between Pakistan, India AND the parties in Kashmir. All sides will be fairly content with the agreement; it will not leave much room for talk of “sell outs” from any quarters, but as the 10 years concludes the ‘winners’ will emerge, ever so SOFTLY.