[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
Iqbal, fatha, damma, qasra are not vowels.
[/quote]
Oh yes they are. The Arabic short vowels fatha, damma, kasra correspond in sound and pronunciation to the English vowels a, u and i. Arabic also has long vowels represented by the letters alif, yaa and waaw.
Iqbal
fatha, damma and kasra are marks. Alif yaa and waw can be vowels because they are letters. Any way were not here to discuss Languages. As I said earlier it doesn't make my post wrong, if one language is bigger or smaller.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
fatha, damma and kasra are marks.
[/quote]
And these "marks" (as you call them) are short vowels! Did you bother to ask anyone who knows Arabic what those marks are called? What did they say?
Iqbal
What is the scope of analyzing criticalli the activities of the Prophet in an Islamic society? All such act will attract the law of blesphemy.
And, you Mr axiom tell us that the Prophethood was not a declaration of divinity. Not only he declared the divinity, but closed all doors to analyze his acts.
Let us find reason that a thread is started with good intentions...origin of religion, and in no time one Muslim follower entres and tell us that Islam is the best, and the whole discussion is diverted between Islam and Islam, good Islam and bogus Islam.
It always happens, there are many Hindus here participating, but no one bothered to tell that his religion has reasons.
It seems that Muslims are always under some complexes. I feel that in fact they are not very sure of truthfulness of their religion.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Iqbal1089: *
And these "marks" (as you call them) are short vowels! Did you bother to ask anyone who knows Arabic what those marks are called? What did they say?
Iqbal
[/QUOTE]
These marks indeed are vowels. One might add that the vowels form a part of the Engish Alphabets while in Arabic, they are in addition to the 28 letters. But in any case, the vastness of vocabulary is not the real problem (as corrected by Axiom); its the translation of the figures of speech.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by anand: *
Let us find reason that a thread is started with good intentions...origin of religion, and in no time one Muslim follower entres and tell us that Islam is the best, and the whole discussion is diverted between Islam and Islam, good Islam and bogus Islam.
[/QUOTE]
The case of Islam has been pressed because of the extensive knowledge held by the participators in this region, through which they have been trying to prove the existence of God (the purpose of the topic).
[quote]
It always happens, there are many Hindus here participating, but no one bothered to tell that his religion has reasons.
[/quote]
Its strange, the Hindus in this thread are posing as athiests. In the other thread they are defending the Hindu beliefs, in effect acknowledging the presence of God.
here is a nice quote
The faith in which I was brought up assured me that I was better than other people: I was saved, they were damned ... Our hymns were loaded with arrogance self-congratulation on how cozy we were with the Almighty and what a high opinion he had of us, what hell everybody else would catch come judgment day.
heinlein robert
"What is the scope of analyzing criticalli the activities of the Prophet in an Islamic society? All such act will attract the law of blesphemy. "
That is exactly why all my analyzations were based on logic. I didn't just post verses from the Quran. I explained the logic behind them.
"And, you Mr axiom tell us that the Prophethood was not a declaration of divinity. Not only he declared the divinity, but closed all doors to analyze his acts".
Please give me one incident when the Prophet(SAWS) said:"Worship me alone. Prostrate before me. I am your divine God". As far as analyzation is concerned, the Islam is the only religion which asks the people to analyze it completely.
"Invite all to the way of thy lord with wisdom and beautiful preaching:and argue with them in ways that are best and most gracious." (16:125)
I suggest you get some knowledge on Islam before making blind posts.
I think you don't know that this one Muslim follower is the reason why this thread started in the first place. What you completely overlooked is that this Muslim follower explained it to analyzeit that his interpretations of the verses he posted were wrong. This Muslim follower never started it uselessly. In fact this Muslim follower never started it at all. I think the reason why the Hindus are not saying that there religion has reasons is that they know that their religion is wrong.
If I remember, analyzeit, posted two verses from some other scriptures. The followers of those scriptures never tried to give reasons because they know that something wrong is written in their scriptures. I am sure that my religion is completely scientific so I cleared "analyzeit's" doubts. Anand, taking off steam will not help you. Stick to the facts.
Any way, analyzeit, one reason you gave why a person shouldn't follow any particular religion is that every religion has scientific errors. You posted some verses from the Quran. They appeared to you as they were unscientific. But I hope now you know that they are perfectly scientific. So, getting back to the topic, give me another reason why a person should not follow any religion, but follow the good qualities of all religions.
I appreciate your wishful thinking that you have explained something. I do admit that you have tried and attempted to explain something but failed to do so. Infact in all your replies if you read carefully you have ** conveniently ignored** the main points raised and twisted the answers to avoid the ** main question or objection**.
I would pose the last question again which you have yet to answer properly.
1) If God has created the world, he must be sleeping because he has allowed all the violence and death of million of his created completely innocent human beings which is going on daily.
2) If God has created everything and he knows everything of future and nothing can be done without his permission, then he is the one who has allowed all the evil in the world. All the evil forces must be working with his permission, so What is the Concept of Good and Bad deeds if every evil doer is acting under his permission.
I would suggest to read the questions carefully first and try to answer only the main question raised, do not run around the question. I can ask many more but dont want to make it more confusing.
BTW you feel that I am confused about" WHAT IS THE WOMB" because everybody has translated it this way, then every interpretor must be confused in the first place to make all reader confused. Only the faithful are not confused. Rest of the world is confused.and if someone raises a question he/she will be deemed confused.How convenient!!:)
Trust me, I read all my replies with the most care before posting them and I found all of them emphasising on the main argument or question(Unless you have prviously decided that you are not going to find it meaningful.)
I'll copy and paste, the answer I gave before:
"I've said it before and I'll say it again. God has sent us to this world to test us. Yes God has allowed evil to work. But he has also given us guidance in the form of Prophets and Holy Books so that we don't become victims of evil. Based on this, the concept of Good and Bad can be described easily. If a person follows the guidance given and stays away from evil then it is Good. If a person ignores the guidance and sides with evil, then it is Bad. If their would have been no evil in the world then what would have been the point of creating us. God is not sleeping. He is seeing which one of us does what He says and which one of us does what He does not say."
If you would have read it properly you would have gotten the answers to your question.
Correction. BTW I feel you are confused about WHAT IS IN THE WOMB because A FEW (not all) of the interpreters translated it that way. I agree, some interprettors might have been confused. They are human beings. They can make mistakes. That is why I suggest you read the authentic translations. Even in the translation you posted, the word SEX is nowhere to be found. Neither is it, or anyother word similar to it, found in the Original Arabic Text. So there is no way the verse could have been talking about the sex of the child. Except if you THOUGHT it meant sex. Just like You THOUGHT that I said, that the verse implies to the future of the child, although I clearly said that it implies to the nature of the child.
1) If God has created the world, he must be sleeping because he has allowed all the violence and death of million of his created completely innocent human beings which is going on daily.
I have a feeling either my question is not understandable or something. Let me put it this way:
** Why God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children???** Does he care?
What you are going to do tomorrow(good or bad) is already known to him and is done under his will, you should not be held accountable for your deeds because you can not do evil until allowed by him
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by analyze it: *
1) If God has created the world, he must be sleeping because he has allowed all the violence and death of million of his created completely innocent human beings which is going on daily.
I have a feeling either my question is not understandable or something. Let me put it this way:
** Why God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children???** Does he care?
What you are going to do tomorrow(good or bad) is already known to him and is done under his will, you should not be held accountable for your deeds because you can not do evil until allowed by him
[/QUOTE]
may be one force supports evil that happnes other one responsible
for good things. or one power responisble for both thus contradicts
its own action?
The US scientist, R. Oppenheimer said, "I have become
Shiva, destroyer of worlds", on watching the first Atomic bomb blast which
he created.
i dont mean to offend anyone at all but this is what i think about religion.
You can take any religious book of sort and use it to prove the true orgin of the world; or prove your the righteousnous of the religion compared to others. We all should be educated in all major religions instead of just one religion our entire life; it would save us all from the ignorance that we face today; atleast most of it. To me; as long as you have a set moral way; you dont have to belong to any particular religion; as long as you are an overall good person with enough openmindedness' to not critisize other religions or consider yourself higher than other people; you will live in bliss. as ive already said; i dont mean to offend anyone; i usually just have defects in my way of writing that confuses people.
Dear Axiom, your problem is that your mind is given a shape to believe that some angel actually appeared.
How a rational thinking may prevail if you believe in an irrational phenomenon?
I do not blame you.
Muhammad was no doubt a good warrior and exploited people fear, gave a self styled religious color to his sword, though I assure you that actual nature of Islam takes place sometime in 661 CE when Ali was murdered, and later you people could never differentiate between politics and religion.
Doors are so closed that you people are not ready to find out when, how and why the actual Quran was compiled.
And the declaration of divinity…… ‘Prophet hood’ is not a declaration of divinity? Very strange!
May be you will tell us what ‘law of blasphemy’ is doing in Islam? What Prophet was afraid of?
Evil deeds are, in fact, a result of the freewill that God has bestowed upon man, for the particular purpose of the test, during the life of this world.
This ‘test’ would not have been possible without granting man the freewill to deviate from the right path, if man so desired. Thus, the Qur’an (Al-Maaidah 5: 48) says:
“And had God so desired, He would have made you a single people [and not given you the freedom to deviate], but for the purpose of testing you in what He has bestowed upon you [He granted you freedom].”
At another instance, the Qur’an also tells us that God created man on the path of ‘good’, evil came into existence only because of man’s deviation from that ‘good’. Yunus 10: 19 says:
“And [in the beginning,] people were but a single nation [on the path of piety], but then they started creating differences [and thus, deviated from the right path]. And had it not been for God’s decision, which had preceded [regarding testing man and allowing him time], the matter would have been [immediately] decided between them, regarding what they differed in.”
It is clear from the cited verses that ‘evil deeds’ are only a product of man’s deviation from the right path, which, in turn, is the result of the freewill, which God has bestowed upon man. One may, however, say that when man commits a sin - deviates from the right path - God should restrict his freedom. Even though, it was possible for God to do so, yet doing so would effectively have meant taking away man’s freewill and, thereby, terminating his test. This is precisely what is referred in the above-cited verse in the words: “had it not been for God’s decision, which had preceded [regarding testing man and allowing him time], the matter would have been [immediately] decided between them, regarding what they differed in.”
Hence, for the purpose of making the test possible, it was necessary to allow man to deviate from the prescribed path, if he so desired, without following such deviation with any immediate punishment: as an immediate punishment for doing ‘evil’ and an immediate reward for doing ‘good’ would also have rendered the ‘test’ ineffective and impossible. The Qur’an (Faatir 35: 45) says:
“And had God [immediately] punished people for their deeds, He would not have left any moving creature on the face of the earth. But He allows them [to do their deeds] till an appointed time. Then, when that time comes… Indeed, God is fully watchful over His people.”
As should be obvious, there is nothing in the concept of ‘test’, which refutes God’s benevolence, mercy or His being all-good. Nevertheless, if all were to end with man’s death, if ‘good’ and ‘evil’ were not to meet their separate ends, if the test, during the life of this world, were abandoned without its logical results - this would then, indeed, refute all benevolence, mercy, justice and goodness of the Creator. It is because of this reason that the Qur’an has emphatically declared that it would not be all over at man’s death and that at the end of the ‘test’, man shall be rewarded or punished for his performance during this ‘test’. Thus, the verse of Al-Maaidah cited above, goes further to say:
“Therefore, excel in good deeds, to your Lord shall be the return of all of you, then He shall inform you regarding that, in which you differed.”
The Qur’an tells us that the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ times are also a part of the ‘test’ of man. It tells us that ‘good’ times are a test of man’s gratitude, while ‘bad’ times are a test of man’s perseverance and steadfastness in God’s ways. The Qur’an (Al-Anbiyaa 21: 35) says:
“We shall try you with good and bad times, as a test. And to Us shall you return.”
The Qur’an also tells us that the ‘good’ and ‘bad’ times for a particular individual or a people is not merely a test for that particular individual or people alone. It is also a test for all others, who directly or indirectly come in contact with those individuals or people. For instance, loss of wealth of an individual is a ‘test’ of perseverance and steadfastness for that particular individual, on the one hand, while on the other, it is a ‘test’ for those living around that individual, insofar as how they behave and help out that particular individual in his hard times. Similarly, a famine, for instance, is not merely a ‘test’ for those directly affected by the calamity; on the contrary, it is also a ‘test’ for those whom God has bestowed with surplus food.
If one were to analyze the events taking place around him, one would realize the immaculate setup that the All-Wise has created for comprehensively testing the humankind. This realization would, in turn, significantly affect one’s behavior and response to the ‘good’ and the ‘bad’ that comes one’s ways. After this realization, one would consider the ‘good’ that comes his ways, as much a test, as the ‘bad’ that he is made to face. Ignoring this fact, man is prone to becoming arrogant, whenever good comes his ways and to losing all hope, when faced with a difficulty. This attitude is only the result of ignoring the concept of ‘test’ that is inherent in all events that happen around us or upon us. The Qur’an (Al-Fajar 89: 15 - 16) comments on this attitude of man in the following words:
As for man, when his Lord tests him by exalting him and bestowing favors upon him, he says: ‘My Lord is bountiful to me.’ But when He tests him restricting his subsistence, he says: ‘My Lord has humiliated me’.
The concept of predestination requires real understanding. The belief in it comprises another ‘test’ in itself.
Q. Why God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children???
Ans. God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children to test the human beings.
Probably your next question:
Q How can the god test human beings by allowing deaths of millions of people and children.
Ans. Explained in detail by beatle_ki_wapsi.(thanks pal)
Anand...your problem is that you seem to have absolutely no knowledge of Islam. I mean if a person says Prophethood is Divine. Prophets are not Gods. They are people who spread God's message to the us. As far as the description you gave of Muhammad (SAWS) as spreading Islam by the sword is quite contrary to the real one. All your questions are based on lack of knowledge about Islam. I don't think it is your fault, because all the non Islamic schools present this picture of Islam to its students(This is a fact). And the students, blindly believe in their teachers without actually trying to find out the truth. Just read any book on the life of Prophet(SAWS) and you will get all the answers.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Axiom: *
Q. Why God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children???
Ans. God has allowed violence and death of million of innocent people and children to test the human beings.
Probably your next question:
Q How can the god test human beings by allowing deaths of millions of people and children.
Ans. Explained in detail by beatle_ki_wapsi.(thanks pal)
Anand...your problem is that you seem to have absolutely no knowledge of Islam. I mean if a person says Prophethood is Divine. Prophets are not Gods. They are people who spread God's message to the us. As far as the description you gave of Muhammad (SAWS) as spreading Islam by the sword is quite contrary to the real one. All your questions are based on lack of knowledge about Islam. I don't think it is your fault, because all the non Islamic schools present this picture of Islam to its students(This is a fact). And the students, blindly believe in their teachers without actually trying to find out the truth. Just read any book on the life of Prophet(SAWS) and you will get all the answers.
[/QUOTE]
so do you accept god created al the diversity of religens and tribes
for a reason?
Every time after every new invention in science they find the same already explained in Quran. Could not they do it a little earlier?
I wonder how the used to define the same verses before the scientific invention.
I will be grateful if Axiom reveals some scintific invention to be expected in future thru Quran!
Dear Axiom, I agree that I have no knowledge, only because I do not agree to your Islam.
What is the knowledge and education level of those people who create terror on the name of Islam? I am talking of terrorists of Islamic origin.
Do you know that today in many countries ordinary people are just afraid of being in gentry, of traveling in local transports or going to theater?
Every time after every terror attack you people come with different explanations, but never your Islam has waged a struggle against them.