Origin of religion

Anand, didn't you read this.

[QUOTE]
Chaltahai, you question is way off topic. Open any Islamic Studies book and read why Interest is haram in Islam. I am too lazy to type all that. The Quran is open to interpretation. But the interpretations should be logical. If the interpretation is done just to, some how create problems then it doesn't mean that the Quran is wrong. That is why almost all of the claims of the moving of the Sun and the things I mentioned in my previous post were made after they were scientifically proven. Before that, the humans could not interpret how could the sun move in the way mentioned in the Quran. If we are not able to interpret what is written in the Quran, it doesn't mean that the Quran is wrong but it means that our mentalities are not high enough to understand what is written. There might be something right now in the Quran which we are not able to explain scientifically because our understanding is not so high.. But when we have a high enough understanding (when science advances) we will be able to expalin the same thing very easily.
[/QUOTE]

Dear Anand, you might have no knowledge because you donot agree to THE Islam. Not because you do not agree to MY Islam. As far as a struggle is concerned, Pakistan is actively working at the Afghanistan-Pakistan border. Pakistan is one of the other Islamic countries who are waging a war against Terrorism(along with the European countries). The problem is that people usually ignore the Terrorism that causes Muslims to become terrorists. Do you know that almost all of the terrorists wee tired of suffering the torture of the real terrorists. The acts of those real terrorists is kept hidden so easily. See the entire picture rather than seeing a part of it. Read this:

A little Muslim boy, born in a tent goes out to get some medicine for his sick dad with his mother and elder brother. After walking a little distance, he hears an explosion. He turns around and sees his camp covered in flames. He sees his father's blood all over. His elder brother goes into the burning camp hoping to save his little sister but fails and dies burning with his sister. The boy's mom, seeing the deaths of her husband, son and daughter, dies out of shock at the spot. Now what do you expect that little boy, standing their to do. The boy whos entire family died infront of his eyes. Don't tell me that you expect him to be an embassador of piece. This Muslim boy will go to any extent possible to avenge his family. Now, when this little Muslim boy goes out and kills those who killed his family, he is called a terrorist. Islam is said to be terrorists religion. While no one says anything to the ones who bombed his camp.
Taking the cover of a war against terrorism, Afghanistan was attacked. And now Iraq is threatened, because they are accused of having weapons of mass destruction. Where as Israil is buying weapons of mass destruction every day infront of the entire world. I think that till now no root cause of terrorism is dealt with. No one has even thought of helping Palestine and Kashmir. All that is done is that some ministers are sent, uselessly, to have talks with the Israili and Indian authorities. What is the result of the talks? More bombings. More Muslim slaughter. More Muslims acting out of hatred and taking revenge. More degradation of Islam as a terrorist religion. Then the same ministers, very innocently, say, "Muslims are terrorists but Islam is a very good religion. Don't call Islam a terrorist religion". Then these same ministers go and attack Muslim countries sayng that Muslims are terrorists. People say Muslims are terrorists because Islam is a terrorist religion.But no one cares to find the reason why some of the Muslims become terrorists.

I ask you what is the knowledge and education of those who create terrorists? I don't want an answer because, then, you will be the one saying that a Muslim follower came out of nowhere and diverted the thread towards something else.

I like your answer, Dear Axiom, I tell earlier that after every terror act there are some explanations. You answer is not very far.
Story of a depressed child is absolutely correct and has reasons.

In Al Qaeda many rich Arabs have taken a violent part? What ideology or reasons inspires them for violence?

You did not tell me what ‘Law of Blasphemy’ is doing in Islam! What the Prophet was afraid of?

I do not comment on the political aspect of your post reg Pak war against Taleban regime after four years of honeymoon period. You have a privilege to mingle politics and religion. I better keep apart.

Blasphemy (blas-femee) :- Indignity offered to God

As far as I know, indignity towards God is not tolerated by any religion. No religion allows any one to mock its God. How does Islam become bad when it is against it.

The SOME rich arabs cannot be symbolized as Islam. Islam cannot be blamed for the acts of SOME rich arabs. What about the MANY rich arabs who are working against these SOME rich arabs. I repeat again, try and look at the complete picture rather than looking at a part of it. You know that there are explanations after a terror act. But have you ever wondered if anybody listens to those explanations or not.

Pakistan has made a lot of mistakes in the past. Atleast it has realized it, and started a struggle. Unlike OTHER countries who still support terrorism. As I said before, to finish terrorism the REAL TERRORISTS have to be stopped. Pakistan might not be strong enough to do it.

If you didn't want to mingle religion and politics then why did you ask this:

[QUOTE]
Every time after every terror attack you people come with different explanations, but never your Islam has waged a struggle against them.
[/QUOTE]

Let me remind you again that this time a Muslim follower is not responsible for the diversion of the topic.

analyzeit, are you satisfied with the answer? If yes, ask another question. If not then I am waiting for your post.

:topic:

Dear Anxiom, I asked, what Prophet was afraid of, hence there is a ‘Law of Blasphemy’ in Islam.
You have taken it to ‘Indignity offered to God’….Is ‘indignity offered to Prophet’ not punishable in Islamic society? If I am not mistaken the only and lonely punishment is ‘death sentence’
So I repeat my question…What Prophet was afraid of?

This is for your information that ‘Law of Blasphemy’ exists or implemented only in Islam. Even if such non-sense you find in some other religions, it is outdated, not implemented. Hence, you are the only scientific and civilized religion!

Islam is a peaceful religion. Why you ask us to overlook the outcome? Does practical Islam differs from literary Islam?

Some or many rich Arabs have taken a wrong inspiration from peaceful books of Islam, they are killing people and are getting killed, believing some where in deep psychology that they are doing a divine job……why you people do not want to analyze Islam, may be mistake is there………
Do you know that majority of Islamic terrorists have spent their childhood at Madrisas while learning Quran!

And pls, do not be referee, I do not object to your privileges!

And Dear Analyze, pls donot get irritated, origin of most religion is an outcome of fear and fantasy, and some religions of sectarian nature are an outcome of fraud.

Where is the oldest copy of the Koran at? Has there been any scientists or archeologist that found 1400 year old copies?

And is the translation the same as today?

Also..about why God allows bad things to happen...

Its because we were given choice. Its what makes us human.

Its not God. Its us.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by AvgAmericanGirl: *
Where is the oldest copy of the Koran at? Has there been any scientists or archeologist that found 1400 year old copies?

And is the translation the same as today?
[/QUOTE]

Thats a laughable question...

Blaspemy means indignity offered to God. If you are talking of Indignity offered to Prophet (SAWS), then I dont think that death penalty is given to them. I came across these two verses in the Quran:
"...Say, "Enjoy the blasphemy for a little while: verily thou art (one) of the companions of fire." (Az-Zumar verse8)

"...verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them." (Al Maidah verse 73)

None of these ayahs give the right to any human to kill the blasphemers.
Besides, blasphemy has nothing to do with freedome of speech. Islam allows a person to say anything as long as he has facts supporting him. But in the case of Prophet (SAWS) not even a single authentic book,Islamic or non-Islamic says that he did something bad. If a person makes a claim that the Prophet (SAWS) did something bad then he is allowed to make the claim as long as he has some proof for it. But accusing Prophet (SAWS) without any proof is wrong just as it is wrong to accuse some one else without proof.

When did Islam ask you to overlook the outcome?

No the terrorists couldnot have spent their childhood at Madrisas while learning Quran! . Because if they would have then they would have known that the things they are doing is against Islam. Even if they did spend their lives studying Quran(I am sure they didn't) then let me remind you that people tend to forget religion when it comes to revenge. If Al Qaedah was really doing Jihad then they would have gone to Palestine and fought the Israilis, rather than commiting suicide which is against Islam.

Dear Anxiom,

Why people are given death sentence for questioning the life style of the Prophet? You need examples?
Prophet hood is not a divinity, you assured me earlier.

Do you know that after every terror attack in public, many in Arab countries perform street dance and distribute sweets. Whose Islam is correct?
How a peaceful ideology can inspire killers?

You are going blank and making false statements.
You must study Islam. Learning Islam leads to oblivion.
Study Islam and learn the difference!

With best rgds

Dear Anand, questioning the life of Prophet(SAWS) is different from abusing Prophet(SAWS). Yes, its better if you give me examples.

The "many arab countries" you are talking about is only the country of Palestine. None of the arab countries except palestine perform street dances after terror attacks. The reason why Palestinians do it is that, as I said before, religion doesn't matter when it comes to revenge. Those guys are suffering so much that they will do anything which causes problems to the ones who are making them suffer.

I would like to remind you what you told me before, "DONT BE A REFEREE" Don't jump to conclusions. The reason why my statements appear false to you is that you fail to understand them.

A religion should not and cannot be judged by analyzing the actions of its followers but by analyzing the religion itself.

analyzeit, a personal question, do you believe in the existence of god?

This is what Charles Krauthammer a columnist for the Washington Post had to say about the same issue. I think there is a great deal of validity to what he says.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A16435-2002Dec5.html
"

Religions are interpreted by the people of their time and thus change over time. Scripture can be invoked to support almost any position. Islam has its periods of violence and its periods of tolerance. The Ottomans gave refuge to the Jews expelled from Catholic Spain in 1492. Today the Arab world is the purveyor of the most vicious anti-Semitic propaganda since Nazi Germany. (Egyptian state television is currently showing a 41-part television series based on the notorious czarist forgery “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion.”)

Which stands for the real Islam? The question is not just unanswerable, it is irrelevant. The real issue is not the essence of an abstraction – who can say what is the real Christianity or the real Judaism? – but the actions of actual Muslims in the world today.

"

when considering the ancient religions of the various nations--mythology in fact--that, in Greek His name was Zeus, Hindu Dyause, Roman Jove, Hebrew Jehovah, Greek Zeu-piter, Hindu Dyausepitar (meaning Light-Father or "Father of Light"), Roman Jupiter (Jove-father), and that Dyause and Zeus is related to Greek as well as modern Spanish "Dios" and became "Teos" and "Theos" in the word "Theology" and that He also had an Egyptian city named after Him--"Diospolis."

Why was my Q laughable? [About the oldest copies of Koran?]

Please explain?

If Al Qaedah was really doing Jihad then they would have gone to Palestine and fought the Israilis, rather than commiting suicide which is against Islam

Exactly my thinking. They don't really care about the Palestinians. They use Pali's as an excuse for their bad behavior.

If al qaedah and osama were fighting on their behalf?

Well umm...years ago ... they could have spent $$$$$$ there. Could have built schools and housing and become activists for their plight.

AvgOne.

An anonymous dialogue, which I found brilliant and insightful:

"Professing to be wise, they became fools . . . "

"Let me explain the problem science has with Jesus Christ." The atheist
professor of philosophy pauses before his class and then asks one of his
new students to stand. "You're a Christian, aren't you, son?"

"Yes, sir."

"So you believe in God?"

"Absolutely."

"Is God good?"

"Sure! God's good."

"Is God all-powerful? Can God do anything?"

"Yes."

"Are you good or evil?"

"The Bible says I'm evil."

The professor grins knowingly. "Ahh! THE BIBLE!" He considers for a
moment. "Here's one for you. Let's say there's a sick person over here and
you can cure him. You can do it. Would you help them? Would you try?"

"Yes sir, I would."

"So you're good...!"

"I wouldn't say that."

"Why not say that? You would help a sick and maimed person if you
could... in fact most of us would if we could...God doesn't.

(No answer.)

He doesn't, does he? My brother was a Christian who died of cancer even
though he prayed to Jesus to heal him. How is this Jesus good? Hmmm? Can
you answer that one?"

(No answer)

The elderly man is sympathetic. "No, you can't, can you?" He takes a sip
of water from a glass on his desk to give the student time

to relax. In philosophy, you have to go easy with the new ones. "Let's
start again, young fella. Is God good?"

"Er... Yes."

"Is Satan good?"

"No."

"Where does Satan come from?"

The student falters. "From... God..."

"That's right. God made Satan, didn't he?" The elderly man runs his bony
fingers through his thinning hair and turns to the smirking, student
audience. "I think we're going to have a lot of fun this semester, ladies
and gentlemen." He turns back to the Christian. "Tell me, son, Is there
evil in this world?"

"Yes, sir."

"Evil's everywhere, isn't it? Did God make everything?"

"Yes."

"Who created evil?

(No answer)

"Is there sickness in this world? Immorality? Hatred? Ugliness? All the
terrible things - do they exist in this world?"

The student squirms on his feet. "Yes."

"Who created them? "

(No answer)

The professor suddenly shouts at his student. "WHO CREATED THEM? TELL ME,
PLEASE!" The professor closes in for the kill and climbs into the
Christian's face. In a still small voice: "God created all evil, didn't He,
son?"

(No answer) The student tries to hold the steady, experienced gaze and
fails.

(continued in next post)

Suddenly the lecturer breaks away to pace the front of the classroom like
an aging panther. The class is mesmerized. "Tell me," he continues, "How
is it that this God is good if He created all evil throughout all time?"
The professor swishes his arms around to encompass the wickedness of the
world. "All the hatred, the brutality, all the pain, all the torture, all
the death and ugliness and all the suffering created by this good God is
all over the world, isn't it, young man?"

(No answer)

"Don't you see it all over the place? Huh?" Pause. "Don't you?" The
professor leans into the student's face again and whispers, "Is God good?"

(No answer)

"Do you believe in Jesus Christ, son?"

The student's voice betrays him and cracks. "Yes, professor. I do."

The old man shakes his head sadly. "Science says you have five senses you
use to identify and observe the world around you. Have you seen Jesus?"

"No, sir. I've never seen Him."

"Then tell us if you've ever heard your Jesus?"

"No, sir. I have not."

"Have you ever felt your Jesus, tasted your Jesus or smelt your Jesus...in
fact, do you have any sensory perception of your God whatsoever?"

(No answer)

"Answer me, please."

"No, sir, I'm afraid I haven't."

"You're AFRAID... you haven't?"

"No, sir."

"Yet you still believe in him?" >>

"...yes..."

"That takes FAITH!" The professor smiles sagely at the underling.
"According to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says your God doesn't exist. What do you say to that, son? Where
is your God now?"

{The student doesn't answer}

"Sit down, please." The Christian sits...Defeated.

Another Christian raises his hand. "Professor, may I address the class?"

The professor turns and smiles. "Ah, another Christian in the vanguard!
Come, come, young man. Speak some proper wisdom to the gathering."

The Christian looks around the room. "Some interesting points you are
making, sir. Now I've got a question for you. Is there such thing as
heat?"

"Yes," the professor replies. "There's heat."

"Is there such a thing as cold?"

"Yes, son, there's cold too."

"No, sir, there isn't."

The professor's grin freezes. The room suddenly goes very cold.

The second Christian continues. "You can have lots of heat, even more heat,
super-heat, mega-heat, white heat, a little heat or no heat but we don't
have anything called 'cold'. We can hit 458 degrees below zero, which is
no heat, but we can't go any further after that. There is no such thing as
cold, otherwise we would be able to go colder than 458 - You see, sir, cold
is only a word we use to describe the absence of heat. We cannot measure
cold. Heat we can measure in thermal units because heat is energy. Cold
is not the opposite of heat, sir, just the absence of it."

Silence. A pin drops somewhere in the classroom.

"Is there such a thing as darkness, professor?"

"That's a dumb question, son. What is night if it isn't darkness?

What are you getting at...?"

"So you say there is such a thing as darkness?"

"Yes..."

"You're wrong again, sir. Darkness is not something, it is the absence of
something. You can have low light, normal light, bright light, flashing
light but if you have no light constantly you have nothing and it's called
darkness, isn't it? That's the meaning we use to define the word. In
reality, Darkness isn't. If it were, you would be able to make darkness
darker and give me a jar of it. Can you...give me a jar of darker darkness,
professor?"

Despite himself, the professor smiles at the young effrontery before
him. This will indeed be a good semester. "Would you mind telling us what
your point is, young man?"

"Yes, professor. My point is, your philosophical premise is flawed to start
with and so your conclusion must be in error...."

The professor goes toxic. "Flawed...? How dare you...!""

"Sir, may I explain what I mean?"

The class is all ears. "Explain... oh, explain..." The professor makes an
admirable effort to regain control. Suddenly he is affability itself. He
waves his hand to silence the class, for the student to continue.

"You are working on the premise of duality," the Christian explains. "That
for example there is life and then there's death; a good God and a bad
God. You are viewing the concept of God as something finite, something we
can measure. Sir, science cannot even explain a thought.

It uses electricity and magnetism but has never seen, much less fully
understood them. To view death as the opposite of life is to be ignorant of
the fact that death cannot exist as a substantive thing. Death is not the
opposite of life, merely the absence of it." The young man holds up a
newspaper he takes from the desk of a neighbor who has been reading
it. "Here is one of the most disgusting tabloids this country hosts,
professor. Is there such a thing as immorality?"

"Of course there is, now look..."

"Wrong again, sir. You see, immorality is merely the absence of
morality. Is there such thing as injustice? No. Injustice is the absence
of justice. Is there such a thing as evil?" The Christian pauses. "Isn't
evil the absence of good?"

The professor's face has turned an alarming color. He is so angry he is
temporarily speechless.

The Christian continues. "If there is evil in the world, professor, and we
all agree there is, then God, if he exists, must be accomplishing a work
through the agency of evil. What is that work, God is accomplishing?

The Bible tells us it is to see if each one of us will, of our own free
will, choose good over evil."

The professor bridles. "As a philosophical scientist, I don't view this
matter as having anything to do with any choice; as a realist, I absolutely
do not recognize the concept of God or any other theological factor as
being part of the world equation because God is not observable."

"I would have thought that the absence of God's moral code in this world is
probably one of the most observable phenomena going," the Christian
replies. "Newspapers make billions of dollars reporting it every week!
Tell me, professor, do you teach your students that they evolved from a
monkey?"

"If you are referring to the natural evolutionary process, young man, yes,
of course I do."

"Have you ever observed evolution with your own eyes, sir?"

The professor makes a sucking sound with his teeth and gives his student a
silent, stony stare.

"Professor, since no one has ever observed the process of evolution at work
and cannot even prove that this process is an on-going endeavor, are you
not teaching your opinion, sir? Are you now not a scientist, but a priest?"

"I'll overlook your impudence in the light of our philosophical
discussion. Now, have you quite finished?" the professor hisses.

"So you don't accept God's moral code to do what is righteous?"

"I believe in what is - that's science!"

"Ahh! SCIENCE!" the student's face splits into a grin. "Sir, you rightly
state that science is the study of observed phenomena. Science too is a
premise which is flawed..."

"SCIENCE IS FLAWED..?" the professor splutters.

The class is in uproar.

The Christian remains standing until the commotion has subsided. "To
continue the point you were making earlier to the other student, may I give
you an example of what I mean?"

The professor wisely keeps silent.

The Christian looks around the room. "Is there anyone in the class who has
ever seen the professor's brain?"

The class breaks out in laughter.

The Christian points towards his elderly, crumbling tutor. "Is there anyone
here who has ever heard the professor's brain... felt the professor's
brain, touched or smelt the professor's brain?" No one appears to have
done so. The Christian shakes his head sadly. "It appears no-one here has
had any sensory perception of the professor's brain whatsoever. Well,
according to the rules of empirical, testable, demonstrable protocol,
science says the professor has no brain."

The class is in chaos. The Christian sits... Because that is what a chair
is for.

Nice melodramatic attempt, not convincing though and has been posted previously.

Another question I would like to raise here.

The strongmost point that most theologists present is that " How did all the universe came into being? It is assumed that everything in the universe has a creator so there must be someone who created this world so without any doubt there must be an entity and we should call it God

Now if we suppose that there is a God since there must be a creator of everything then *somebody must have created God too in continuation of same analogy???? *