1)Why is interest haraam in Islam? COnsidering all major financial and economic systems use it as a prominent intrument. Did god did not know about the Present and future value of money?
2) If the Koran is written in prose and is hard to comprehend then logically it would be open to interpretation. So the supposed word of god (I say supposed from a Kuf'r p.o.v) is still open to interpretation. Then how can it be the last word. If there is still some more deciphering to do. It is still tainted by human interpretation.
2.1) As far as the choice of Arabic. It seems odd to me that god would be only speaking in arabic to convey his message considering, it is not even the most widely spoken language of that time. As far as translation into english, and the inherent complexity in Arabic. God should have chosen chinese, it has far more characters so that the message can be understood better. Even if it is by the chinese.
In summary, this is my opinion. Koran is a compilation of what had already been established.i.e. Old/New Testament from the monotheistic perspective. I do not the think that it is the final word of god as it relates to simply an arabic lifestyle from the 7th century (4 wives and all), discounting most of the world. Therefore we see such adjidah in assimilation with other cultures. The message in Koran in fantastic but the implementation mechnisms are flawed. I think if people concentrate on the message, for example.Koran says interest is haraam. What the message I take is that usury and taking advantage of another person for financial gain is haraam. But the instrument cannot be haraam.
"Panini should be thought of as the forerunner of the modern formal language theory used to specify computer languages. The Backus Normal Form was discovered independently by John Backus in 1959, but Panini's notation is equivalent in its power to that of Backus and has many similar properties. It is remarkable to think that concepts which are fundamental to today's theoretical computer science should have their origin with an Indian genius around 2500 years ago.
axiom actually paninini was born in pakistani soil
Born: about 520 BC in Shalatula (near Attock), now Pakistan"
rvikz, I ask you something with all due respect. WHY IN THE WORLD ARE YOU TELLING ME ALL THIS. Why are you trying to prove that Indians are geniuses. They might be, but who cares. What has it got to do with origin of religion.
Anand, God is a belief, not a fantasy. If God could be explained through information then there would have been no concept of faith because everyone would know that God exists. So no one's faith would ever be weak because they would know that God exists. That is what faith is all about. To belive in something you have never seen. And if you consider religion as foolishness even after I have shown you that what the Quran says has been scientifically proven, then I can't help it. We don't believe in the Gurus BECAUSE they claim divinity. Prophet(SAWS) never claimed divinity. Besides, the Gurus do not live lives which we can make an example for ourselves. The Prophet(SAWS) was given the title of "Truthful and Trustworthy" by very same non-muslims who didn't believe in him. The life of such a person can be followed. Spiritual is something about the soul. Saying coca cola will not strenghthen my faith but saying Allah Allah will strengthen my faith, my belief becuase my soul gets uplifted morally.
Chaltahai, you question is way off topic. Open any Islamic Studies book and read why Interest is haram in Islam. I am too lazy to type all that. The Quran is open to interpretation. But the interpretations should be logical. If the interpretation is done just to, some how create problems then it doesn't mean that the Quran is wrong. That is why almost all of the claims of the moving of the Sun and the things I mentioned in my previous post were made after they were scientifically proven. Before that, the humans could not interpret how could the sun move in the way mentioned in the Quran. If we are not able to interpret what is written in the Quran, it doesn't mean that the Quran is wrong but it means that our mentalities are not high enough to understand what is written. There might be something right now in the Quran which we are not able to explain scientifically because our understanding is not so high.. But when we have a high enough understanding (when science advances) we will be able to expalin the same thing very easily.
The choice of Arabic was God's will. He wanted the Prophet(SAWS) to be born in Arabia. The message also had to be in a language which the Prophet(SAWS) understood(which is arabic). He could have even chosen Rowanda or Timbaktoo. I can't do anything about it. Why was the Prophet(SAWS) born in Arabia, why not Greece or TandoAlam. No one can answer this question. It's His decision
As far as your comment is concerned, that's you way of thinking. I have a different way of thinking. I can't force you to think in the way I do. All I can do is try to convince you that my way of thinking is correct.
Axiom: Actualluy...no one here has been able to explain why interest should be haraam except for quoting the koran. Now..I have no issue with the faith of muslims and taking scripture for law and not questioning it for it's validity in the modern times. As a finance guy, I can tell you that the islamic system of banking and finance is completely non-compatible with the plethora of investment instruments that are out there. It is good that countries like Pakistan do not base their economics on such anachronistic princials because if they did, the economy would be more of a mess than it is currently.
Axiom says that Quran is open to interpretation, a logical interpretation!
This logical interpretation means the Islamic favor interpretation; all vise versa is demonstration of ignorance.
In one of his interpretation he says that Allah provides another skin to the burnt (unbeliever), (so that he would again feel the pain when burnt again), interestingly Axiom does not see that his Allah is instigating a merciless violence, but he finds some explanation of science.
This Axiom must read Mahabharata, he may find more science than in Quran and in a better way.
This is for his information that the Prophet claimed an audience with the angel; this comes under the declaration of divinity.
Why this angel usually appeared whenever the Prophet faced some political or social debacles? Was it a coincidence?
Anand,
Why do I have to give examples to explain everything. Any way consider the following verse: (31:34)
"Verily the knowledge of the Hour is With God (alone). It is He Who sends down rain, and He who knows What is in the wombs of mothers…."
Some people interpret it as "This verse says that only God knows what is the sex of the child in the mothers womb but nowadays science can also determine the sex of the child in the mother's womb so the Quran is wrong"
The verse never even uses the word sex. But people who, just somehow, want it to be an error will interpret it that way.
Here is another form of interpretation. "God knows WHAT is in the womb of the mother. Is it a good person, or some one evil. Will he be useful to the society or will he be harmful to it. Will he go to Paradise or will he go to Hell. And no scientist in the world can tell this. It is only God who can tell that. So the Quran is right."
I leave it to you all to decide, which one demonstrates logic and which one demonstrates ignorance.
If all logical interpretations favour the Quran, then its not my fault.
The verse which I stated says that Allah will burn the skins of the disbelievers. The verse tells some thing about science as well as warns the disbelievers that they will be punished. An illogical person would just pick up one point which favours him and will ignore the other. Sure it shows no mercy. What will God do if some one doesnot listen to him. A logical reply would be that God would give him another chance. That is exactly what Allah is doing. Allah is giving us so many chances in this world. But what will God do if some one continues to disobey Him even though He has given him so many chances. A logical answer will be that God will punish him. And no punishment I know is merciful. This Axiom never asked you to read the Quran and find science in it. He posted the verses for you. Then why do you ask him to read the Mahabharata. Post the verses for him.
As far as the claim of Prophet(SAWS) is concerned, there is not even a single history book in the world (Islamic or Non-Islamic) which ever says that Muhammad(SAWS) claimed divinity. You are the first person from whom I heard it. If he would have claimed to be a God then why would he ask us to follow the Quran which asks us to worship only one God, Allah. And the angel usually coming down when the Prophet(SAWS) faced debacles is not a coincidence. The Prophet(SAWS), being uneducated, could not answer the accusations of the unbelievers. So God used to send down the angel with the answer to those questions.
Audience with a God sent angel is not a declaration of divinity???
By manipulating these stories a ‘self-styled Prophethood’ is not a declaration of divinity???
Whenever he had problems to face the people, angel was always there, was not a trick?
Is education necessary for tricks? May be you have never met any modern day Guru, many of them apply the same methods. Majority of these modern day Gurus ends in oblivion. Why the Islamic Prophet entered history, we can discuss and find reasons.
But for that you must have rational thinking and an open mind. Greenery behind blindness cannot be a source of science.
Axiom, why are you sure that your interpretation is correct and not mine? Most of the time it seems that you are pushing your own words in angel mouth.
You thought wrong. Adam(AS) started monotheism.
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No...First monotheistic religion was started by Amenhotep in Egypt. He moved the capital from Alexandria to Amara. This was the begining of the monotheistic faiths. It was short lived as his successors moved the capital back and resumed worshipping the many gods
There is historical an d archaelogical proof on this...unlike adam where the only proof is in scriptures witten by "god" knows who.
Axiom, I dont think your expalnation is satisfactory. the complete verse is:
“Surely Allah is He with Whom is the knowledge of the hour, and He sends down the rain and He knows what is in the wombs; and no one knows what he shall earn on the tomorrow; and no one knows in what land he shall die; surely Allah is Knowing, Aware.” (Luqman: 34)
It is clear that future activities of (person in the womb )are described in the lines afterwards so it can not be implied(unless you insist it to be) for future of that person. If you read different translations of this verse it will be clear that it meant exact detail of fetus, i.e its sex and detailed information about fetus. Some Scholars have also tried to explain it as since this knowledge was not known to man of that time, it was meant for only the person of that time. Now in medern times the scientific knowledge is advanced enough to tell us the exact details of " WHAT IS IN THE WOMB".
I am quite content that at least some of my points(e.g. about Surah Fatiha) made you think. To be able to think is the sign of a mind trying to struggle from preconceived regulations. Remember that knowledge and education has little to do with religion. If education and knowledge would direct human beings to true religion, everybody would have converted to one religion, be it Hinduism, Islam, Judaism, christianity etc.
**Greater than 99% of men and women stick with the religion they are born with despite their level of education and knowledge. **
Now a few other points to ponder:
If God has created the world, he must be sleeping because he has allowed all the violence and death of million of his created completely innocent human beings which is going on daily.
If God has created everything and he knows everything of future and nothing can be done without his permission, then he is the one who has allowed all the evil in the world. All the evil forces must be working with his permission, so What is the Concept of Good and Bad deeds if every evil doer is acting under his permission.
Anand,
Audience with a God sent angel is a way of communication between the God and His Prophet. It is not a declaration of divinity. "I am a God. Worship me alone." is a declaration of divinity. Prophet(SAWS) never declared this. Declaration of Prophethood is not a declaration of divinity. And some one asked me to be rational. Whenever Prophet(SAWS) had a problem, the angel was there. I told you why the angel was there. It is no trick. These modern day Gururs end up in oblivion and Muhammad (SAWS) did not. That is another reason why we don't follow these modern day Gurus. We don't want to end up in oblivion just like them. I never said that my interprettation is correct. I left it to the people to decide. Besides, the interpretation I gave would be logical to any one(with the exception of those who in their own blindness call others blind)
CH, I wrote an incomplete sentence. Read this:
ACCORDING TO THE ISLAMIC BELIEF monotheism was started by Adam(AS). Another thing, if the archaelogists can't find the bones of a prehistoric person does it mean that the person doesn't exist at all??? There are zillions of people who lived on Earth. Should we believe that none of them ever existed because the archaelogists couldn't find signs of their existence.
analyzeit, I think what is confusing you is that in some of the translations (specially urdu ones) the verse has been translated by using the word sex, which is wrong. It is true that many translations and commentaries of this verse of the Glorious Quran say that only Allah knows the sex of the child in the mother’s womb. If you read the Arabic text of this verse, there is no Arabic word corresponding to the English word ‘sex’.
In fact the Quran says the knowledge of what is in the womb is with Allah alone. Many commentators have misunderstood it to mean only Allah knows the sex of the child in the womb, which is a mistake
And I never insist it to be implied for the future of the person. I said in my post that it implies to the nature of the person. How the child in the womb will be. WHAT IS IN THE WOMB. IS IT GOOD OR IS IT BAD.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. God has sent us to this world to test us. Yes God has allowed evil to work. But he has also given us guidance in the form of Prophets and Holy Books so that we don't become victims of evil. Based on this, the concept of Good and Bad can be described easily. If a person follows the guidance given and stays away from evil then it is Good. If a person ignores the guidance and sides with evil, then it is Bad. If their would have been no evil in the world then what would have been the point of creating us. God is not sleeping. He is seeing which one of us does what He says and which one of us does what He does not say
You could believe what you want. But the fact of the matter is that Adam was not the first monotheist. Amenhotep was. Until scripture can be turned into evidence, you are singing this tune all by yourself. There is nothing wrong with believing that. But just as you are sure that the koran is the truth, the Temples at Amara are the reality.
Besides, in Arabic we have Fatha, Damma, Kasra(Arabic words).Just like in Urdu we have Zer, Zabar, Paysh (Urdu words). I don't know what they are called in English. If some one knows, do tell.
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Axiom, these are called vowels, they are found in English as well. As far as i know, there are no vowelless languages or certainly none that have survived into the modern era.
Iqbal, fatha, damma, qasra are not vowels. They are marks which are put on the words. Vowels are (in English) a, e, i, o, u which are letters. They form a word.
Ch, according to you, I should not believe that Caesar was a Roman emperor because the archaelogists discovered the bones of the emperor who came after him and not of Caesar himself. And that, all the books written on the Roman empire are singing their own tunes when they say that Caesar was a Roman eperor, just because the archaelogists didnot discover his bones.