I finally got my daughter's POC today. I still have not received mine even though I submitted our applications together online. Hopefully in few more days.
I don't know why would anyone get POC instead of NICOP.
Couple of reasons: If someone is not eligible to receive NICOP then why should he/she even if there is supposedly a glitch in the system due to which it may fall through the cracks? Chances of someone's voting in Pak elections are pretty dim and that obviously can't serve as the reason to switch from POC to NICOP. The only practical difference between POC and NICOP is voting rights and perhaps NICOP will have longer expiration date which isn't really a big deal.
Secondly, some people may work for government or other such projects which may require them to go through background investigation/security clearance. Having NICOP implies having dual citizenship which can complicate the process and will most probably restrict security clearance to a certain level which in trun can effect career mobility/pay grade etc not to mention plain simple inconvenience (you'd probably have to wait an eternity to get cleared etc).
I finally got my daughter's POC today. I still have not received mine even though I submitted our applications together online. Hopefully in few more days.
Couple of reasons: If someone is not eligible to receive NICOP then why should he/she even if there is supposedly a glitch in the system due to which it may fall through the cracks? Chances of someone's voting in Pak elections are pretty dim and that obviously can't serve as the reason to switch from POC to NICOP. The only practical difference between POC and NICOP is voting rights and perhaps NICOP will have longer expiration date which isn't really a big deal.
Secondly, some people may work for government or other such projects which may require them to go through background investigation/security clearance. Having NICOP implies having dual citizenship which can complicate the process and will most probably restrict security clearance to a certain level which in trun can effect career mobility/pay grade etc not to mention plain simple inconvenience (you'd probably have to wait an eternity to get cleared etc).
NICOP doesn't (always) mean dual citizenship. NICOP simply means an ID card for "pakistanis" who are residing abroad. I got my NICOP before I became a U.S citizen. As per a NADRA rep I was talking to, you can't even get a CNIC if you are residing abroad. You can only get NICOP if you are overseas. I don't think I glitched the system by getting my children NICOPs. I know many individuals who did the same. NADRA obviously knows what its doing. The word is, if you are abrad even though temporarily (on a visit visa or something), you qualify to get a NICOP.
[QUOTE]
The National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis **(NICOP) was conceived as a project by mutual resolve of the Overseas Pakistanis Foundation, the Ministry of Labor, Manpower and Overseas Pakistanis, and the Interior Division, so as to provide them with NICOP cards, and getting them registered. The scheme calls for the creation of a **comprehensive database of Pakistanis who either work abroad or hold a dual nationality. The card is supposed to be produced at domestic or international entry or exit terminals.
There has justifiably been a recognition of the overseas Pakistanis, their services and the potential benefits to the homeland, which has led the Government of Pakistan to issue them with National Identity Cards for Overseas Pakistanis (NICOP).
[/QUOTE]
You don't call someone "Pakistani" who was born in US, has US birth certificate and Passport.
On the other hand, if I'm a US citizen by naturalization I can call myself Oversea Pakistani only if I have dual nationality. You can go ahead and debate all that with the authorities processing your clearance but that's how they are going to view it.
The excerpt above clearly states "overseas Pakistanis" -- it does not say "former Pakistani nationals" or "US nationals happen to be born to parents who used to be Pakistanis" etc etc.
A valid card issued to a non-resident citizen **shall be the conclusive proof of his being a citizen of Pakistan for the purposes of availing protection of the Government of Pakistan in any foreign country or state as a Pakistani citizen. **The Federal Government shall recognize, afford and ensure full protection to them as citizens of Pakistan under the law, to all cardholders abroad.
If you are living abroad for six months or more (as long as you are not there for studies), you are qualified to apply for a NICOP. I can quote NADRA, but you can go look it up yourself.
If your kids are U.S citizens (or foreign nationals by birth) you have a choice of getting them either a POC or a NICOP. Getting them NICOP is same as registering their birth at PK embassy and getting a "Bay" form. I don't know if you are familar with Bay form but this is what desi parents in the U.S used to do in the old days to get their U.S born kids, Pakistani Passports.
For some, POC is the only option... for example, former Pakistani nationals who have abandoned their Pakistani citizenship or foreign nationals married to pakistani citizens.
This information is directly from a Nadra rep received in an email when I asked these questions.
I know its confusing but I have learned to deal with it. I applied for my kids NICOPs thinking that their application will be rejected if they don't qualify. I will simply apply for POCs then. I was surprised to recieve the NICOPs in no time.
The excerpt above clearly states "overseas Pakistanis" -- it does not say "former Pakistani nationals" or "US nationals happen to be born to parents who used to be Pakistanis" etc etc.
My point exactly. It doesn't say "overseas Pakistanis who hold a second nationallity"
"For some, POC is the only option... for example, former Pakistani nationals who have abandoned their Pakistani citizenship or foreign nationals married to pakistani citizens."
Nadra is full of contradiction and misinformation. I mean how do you define abandoning Pakistani citizenship? is this some kinda mental promise you make to yourself that You are paki no more? To me the way you "abandon" your citizenship is that you
1- Turn in your pakistani passport OR simply throw it away/not renew it.
2- apply for POC and not NICOP because NICOP is for Overseas Pakistanis and if I don't call myself oversea pakistani then I fall under POC category which is Pakistani Origin card.
How else you would "abandon" your citizenship?
I've a feeling that even though Nadra has all these criteria in writing they don't even follow their own rules. Based on what you're saying:
[quote]
If your kids are U.S citizens (or foreign nationals by birth) you have a choice of getting them either a POC or a NICOP. Getting them NICOP is same as registering their birth at PK embassy and getting a "Bay" form.
[/quote]
If you have "abandoned" your citizenship then obviously you don't go around applying NICOP for your foreign-born child.
"For some, POC is the only option... for example, former Pakistani nationals who have abandoned their Pakistani citizenship or foreign nationals married to pakistani citizens."
Nadra is full of contradiction and misinformation. I mean how do you define abandoning Pakistani citizenship? is this some kinda mental promise you make to yourself that You are paki no more? To me the way you "abandon" your citizenship is that you
1- Turn in your pakistani passport OR simply throw it away/not renew it.
2- apply for POC and not NICOP because NICOP is for Overseas Pakistanis and if I don't call myself oversea pakistani then I fall under POC category which is Pakistani Origin card.
How else you would "abandon" your citizenship?
I've a feeling that even though Nadra has all these criteria in writing they don't even follow their own rules. Based on what you're saying:
If you have "abandoned" your citizenship then obviously you don't go around applying NICOP for your foreign-born child.
We are both on the same page dude. The bottom line is, they don't make is easy obviuosly. Nothing is ever crystal when it comes to getting legal documents in Pakistan, be it Passport, Id Card, or whatever else. They have three versions of the passport application forms on their three official consulate sites for cryin out loud. All three forms require you to fill out slightly different information. I can provide links to those forms.
This is really messed up. I still have not received my card while my daughter's card was received within two weeks even though I submitted both applications at the SAME time. I don't know what's up with these guys. The online live chat link is a joke on the site.
This is really messed up. I still have not received my card while my daughter's card was received within two weeks even though I submitted both applications at the SAME time. I don't know what's up with these guys. The online live chat link is a joke on the site.
Anyone knows how I can contact them?
we had the same problem. all of my family except my little bro and sis didnt got theirs on time and we had to return to australia. we contact the head office, at first the guy was so rude and gave me so many numbers to call to find out. and when i called those numbers, they told me to contact the office where we lodged our application and we couldnt, as their phone wasnt working.
eventually i got hold of a person who was in from another NADRA office, and i told him the story and he gave me the number of the senior person in the office, at first his PA wouldnt let me talk to him then i told his PA to return our application with the fee and we dont want your stupid NICOP. he then asked me all the information about my brother and sister and told me that it would be ready after a week and we can go to the office where we lodged to pick up and no one else can pick up, i told him we are not in pakistan my uncle can pick up and he has the authority to do so, eventually he agreed and we got the cards, a year after lodging the application.
and dont ask how many calls in total i made to their office.
We are both on the same page dude. The bottom line is, they don't make is easy obviuosly. Nothing is ever crystal when it comes to getting legal documents in Pakistan, be it Passport, Id Card, or whatever else. They have three versions of the passport application forms on their three official consulate sites for cryin out loud. All three forms require you to fill out slightly different information. I can provide links to those forms.
i had NICOP and was told i can travel on it without my passport but i got questioned so much about it at Lahore airport and singapore airport, that i decided to get my passport renewed. even though i was residing in ISLAMABABD, i was told to travel to gujrat, as my permanent address was different to my residental adress. i travelled to gujrat, but situation was so bad.
after getting application in 3 hours,i was told to come back 2morrow as i have to wait for my ticket number to come and its not likely to come unless i pay the manager. i refused and cam back the next day, same situation, people fighting with eachother for their turns and after waiting for so many hours i decided to pay. and the manager took only 100 rupees and my turn came and i thanked Allah and left.
there were many women alone with their childrens for their passports. i felt so sorry for them as they were waiting for their number to come, not knowing what to do or who to bribe. i still think os this lady who would walk to the counter and ask when will her number come.
i had NICOP and was told i can travel on it without my passport but i got questioned so much about it at Lahore airport and singapore airport, that i decided to get my passport renewed.
You were misinformed. You need a passport. What NICOP gives you is ability to travel to pakistan without Pakistani visa on your foreign passport.
even though i was residing in ISLAMABABD, i was told to travel to gujrat, as my permanent address was different to my residental adress. i travelled to gujrat, but situation was so bad.
You were misinformed. You need a passport. What NICOP gives you is ability to travel to pakistan without Pakistani visa on your foreign passport.
Where is Gujrat? not Gujrat India obviously.
i had australian passport and NICOP but they asked for pakistani passport, which i had with me but was expired and at singapore airport they used my expired passport with australian passport and were questioning me about NICOP
It would probably be one hour if there was a straight motorway from Lahore to Gujrat. In reality it takes an hour to get from Lahore to Gujranwala and then another hour from there to Gujrat.
i had australian passport and NICOP but they asked for pakistani passport, which i had with me but was expired and at singapore airport they used my expired passport with australian passport and were questioning me about NICOP
its in pakistan, about 1 hours drive from lahore.
I have used NICOP with my U.S passport when going to Pakistan recently without issues. I wasn't asked for it in the U.S or in Pakistan. Surprisingly enough, the airline officials at the ticket counters in the U.S were somewhat familiar with NICOP.
Oh and the back of the NICOP actually reads "Visa Free entry into Pakistan" or something like that. So technically, you shouldn't need the Paki passport if you are a foreign national with a foreign passport. All they should need is a "Visa" which is what the NICOP replaces.
I don't intend to renew my Pakistani passport any more once it expires.
Does anyone know about the photograph requirement ..... is there a specific background color needed? blue, white etc?
btw - its a poorly designed & implemented website, very unprofessional. Certain populated pull down fields with not enough field width, even spelling mistake, not enough/proper explanations etc. The chat banner takes you rather to a message field. I sent a msg which instantly got bounced back to my email saying the recipient address does not exist !! LOL
I guess the concepts of software testing & quality are completely strange ideas to developers over there.
Does anyone know about the photograph requirement ..... is there a specific background color needed? blue, white etc?
btw - its a poorly designed & implemented website, very unprofessional. Certain populated pull down fields with not enough field width, even spelling mistake, not enough/proper explanations etc. The chat banner takes you rather to a message field. I sent a msg which instantly got bounced back to my email saying the recipient address does not exist !! LOL
I guess the concepts of software testing & quality are completely strange ideas to developers over there.
Dude. You should be glad there is a website for online NICOP application.
To answer your question though, the background is supposed to be light. It could be white or light blue.