how true is it in scripture that only one sect is true and the rest are hell-bound?
salam alaikum
heaven and hell are a matter for Allah SWT to decide (ultimately)
however we have been given the Book of Allah which has banned sects, so yeah only one group/way/type is true muslim. as for recognition of who is to be part of this group the Quran and sunnah confirm that it is those upon what the Prophet SAW and his companions RA were on. so the standard is high, and that was the only group approved by Allah SWT
various groups/cults claiming to be a sect of islam have no real basis for the claim, although being a sect of islam could arguably be a proof of their disbelief initself, the scholars have not had to entertain the idea since the disbelief of these groups has been proven on more basic matters.
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or is everyone going to heaven irrespective of sect?
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those monotheists judged by Allah Most Merciful to have some (little) iman, will eventually be allowed into heaven having served a period of punishment. however since we as individuals cant judge this situation we all fear our own positions.
Yes sure. Thats what the whole point of that example was. House as Islam, rooms as sects. But what's weird is each person sittin in the room claiming their room to be** better than the other **room beside it. Sure it can have some differences but they go as extreme and as far as calling them as not a room at all.
Peace Mr. Popat,
Here is the answer in your post. If this thought is taken out than there is possibility for unity.
how true is it in scripture that only one sect is true and the rest are hell-bound? or is everyone going to heaven irrespective of sect?
Peace queer,
It is not written in scripture but narrated in hadith.
In short one who entered in the circle of 'Islam' eventually will enter in heaven but after serving him/her terms in hell for all his/her wrong doing. But those who never entered in the circle of 'Islam' will never enter in heaven.
I just want to tell you that Today or Tomorrow this Topic will head to the discussion about Ahmadiyyat. Truth is, we can understand each other if we not only hear/read what the others say, but also study what their belief is.
I just wanted to add a sidenote:
Massih-e-Maoud (as) called people who swore against him "sons of prostitutes". In a symbolic sense this makes sense. A prostitute sells herself. She sold herself and her Kids. Massih-e-Moud (as) said that a Father who does not take his Kids to the Mosque at a certain age is a murderer. From experience I can tell you that this is absolute true.
Now Massih-e-Moud was attacked for his opinion which was in fact right. The interesting fact is that Jesus (as) can come back, kill the swine (the disbelievers) and break the cross (Destroy the Church). This attitude does not create disorder and is not contradicting, but Massih-e-Maoud (as) speaking the Truth in a painful but true manner is Dajjal (nauzobillah) and has created disorder and is the Agent of the British.
Strange is that Allama Iqbal does not get prosecuted or called "Agent of the British Empire" when he praised the Queen on her Birthday in a letter dipped in rose water.
^ do not let this thread turn into a debate about jamaat e ahmadiyya.
Lets talk about some fundamental beliefs in which we all can agree on and show them all that we're all the same.
LLK.. not only are we suppose to stop thinking about who is better whose not and take this idea out of our mind but we also need to stop giving fatwas about whose a muslim and whose not.
The term “sons of prostitutes” is a cultural diatribe and upon analysis does not hold any meaningful significance. Proving that it is a nonsensical statement - not only proves that the symbolism is false, but also proves that such a statement can only be made in that cultural setting as one of “hatred” and uncontrolled obsenity - an attribute not befitting for a pious person let alone a prophet.
**The contention:
**The Islamic Shari’ah is strict on the concept of justice and hence will never allow the children of murderers, adulterers, prostitutes , etc to be held responsible for the crimes of their parents. So when a person is said to be the "son of " it can only be said to “insult” them, because the idea is to “defame” the people who they “revere”, “love” and “respect” …
This article is the apologetic perspective, but you it appears have a less apologetic view … It doesn’t matter, these are differences as I mentioned earlier … We can still work for good mutually beneficial ends despite these beliefs that you hold about us and despite the way we do not acknowledge your prophet. BUT … this is the way to get peace … We have to grow very thick skins … Knowing what we know about one another we should still be civil and work together !!!
We will stay civil, my intention is not to rub off your skin. Knowing me you should know that.
I admit that it’s my fault and I did not check after it. Years ago someone else translated that as “sons of prostitutes”. It was in Urdu and because I could not read Urdu I did not give much weight to it. Now - after waking up - I have realized that I have to gain more knowledge. Thank you for the clarification. I admit that there is alot of material out there I have to read. Knowledge is something which has no ending.
Brother,
do you read what I write? You are talking about the sharia law which does not allow a Father to kill his children! Where did I state this?
this is what I wrote:
Massih-e-Moud (as) said that a Father who does not take his Kids to the Mosque at a certain age is a murderer. From experience I can tell you that this is absolute true.
We will stay civil, my intention is not to rub off your skin. Knowing me you should know that.
I admit that it's my fault and I did not check after it. Years ago someone else translated that as "sons of prostitutes". It was in Urdu and because I could not read Urdu I did not give much weight to it. Now - after waking up - I have realized that I have to gain more knowledge. Thank you for the clarification. I admit that there is alot of material out there I have to read. Knowledge is something which has no ending.
Brother,
do you read what I write? You are talking about the sharia law which does not allow a Father to kill his children! Where did I state this?
this is what I wrote:
Massih-e-Moud (as) said that a Father who does not take his Kids to the Mosque at a certain age is a murderer. From experience I can tell you that this is absolute true.
Yes I read what you wrote, but it appears you didn't understand what I wrote ... My response was purely over the term "sons of XXX" where XXX can be any derogatory title given to a person ... that this phrase is a cultural diatribe and why this phrase is nonsensical.
I explained that calling someone the offspring of a bad person doesn't do any justice to the person nor to the parents. Why should the parents be accused if the children are not accepting "the truth" according to you? And by blaming the "parents" of the people who have not chosen "the truth" then how are the children being chastised? Being a son of a prostitute does not make "him" bad, it makes her "bad" ... but her actions he is not accountable for anyway so why even say that phrase to him? The purpose of saying this phrase is to cause "insult" that is the only purpose behind it. Because it cannot otherwise be rationalised ... My reasoning for brining the Shari'ah here is to show that every statement of a prophet is compatible with Shar'iah ... Notice how "people" themselves are called "bad" in the Qur'an, hadith not their parents.
Regarding a father not taking his children to the masjid being a murderer - I can actually agree with that statement. I do see the sense in it.
Yes I read what you wrote, but it appears you didn't understand what I wrote ... My response was purely over the term "sons of XXX" where XXX can be any derogatory title given to a person ... that this phrase is a cultural diatribe and why this phrase is nonsensical.
I explained that calling someone the offspring of a bad person doesn't do any justice to the person nor to the parents. Why should the parents be accused if the children are not accepting "the truth" according to you? And by blaming the "parents" of the people who have not chosen "the truth" then how are the children being chastised? Being a son of a prostitute does not make "him" bad, it makes her "bad" ... but her actions he is not accountable for anyway so why even say that phrase to him? The purpose of saying this phrase is to cause "insult" that is the only purpose behind it. Because it cannot otherwise be rationalised ... My reasoning for brining the Shari'ah here is to show that every statement of a prophet is compatible with Shar'iah ... Notice how "people" themselves are called "bad" in the Qur'an, hadith not their parents.
Regarding a father not taking his children to the masjid being a murderer - I can actually agree with that statement. I do see the sense in it.
now that we have the correct meaning we don't need to deal with the term "sons of prostitutes". Progeny of slaves fits better. You are slave to lies. Aren't you accountable when truth has come to you and instead of spending time you believe in a web of lies?
Now that we have the correct meaning, the children are not accountable, but if truth has come and it's around the corner then they are indeed accountable. It is not a insult anymore. The Truth hurts, even if you say it in a nice way.
When you know that you can't drive faster than 50 miles per hour, but you still drive aren't you accountable? How can you say in this situation the Government lies? Massih-e-Moud (as) invited all to come and see him and talk to him, but most people rejected it. This is same like the Holy Qur'an speaking about itself to be the Truth, but still most people deny, because they say they lie without hearing a person or in the last case don't even make a effort to spend their time with the masterpiece called Holy Qur'an.
I have spoiled my own Thread :D
We cannot become One until we spend time with each other and don't jump on the train of our own conclusion.
now that we have the correct meaning we don't need to deal with the term "sons of prostitutes". Progeny of slaves fits better. You are slave to lies. Aren't you accountable when truth has come to you and instead of spending time you believe in a web of lies?
Now that we have the correct meaning, the children are not accountable, but if truth has come and it's around the corner then they are indeed accountable. It is not a insult anymore. The Truth hurts, even if you say it in a nice way.
When you know that you can't drive faster than 50 miles per hour, but you still drive aren't you accountable? How can you say in this situation the Government lies? Massih-e-Moud (as) invited all to come and see him and talk to him, but most people rejected it. This is same like the Holy Qur'an speaking about itself to be the Truth, but still most people deny, because they say they lie without hearing a person or in the last case don't even make a effort to spend their time with the masterpiece called Holy Qur'an.
I have spoiled my own Thread :D
We cannot become One until we spend time with each other and don't jump on the train of our own conclusion.
Even if we say "son of a slave girl" it doesn't make sense ... A slave in Islam is a noble designation. Abdullah - Slave of Allah ...
Again you have not quite understood what it is I am saying:
Call me a "slave to lies" but not a "son of a slave to lies" because the former will directly implicate me for being wrong, but the latter description does nothing to me - it only implicates my parent and I have no share in what my parents have done ... Do you see what I am saying? In no way can this be a divine label given to us ... It can only be meant as a statement to "insult" us because people don't want their parents to be called any names.
The question here is - "why would a pious person want to hurt our feelings by calling our parents these things?"
Even if we say "son of a slave girl" it doesn't make sense ... A slave in Islam is a noble designation. Abdullah - Slave of Allah ...
Again you have not quite understood what it is I am saying:
Call me a "slave to lies" but not a "son of a slave to lies" because the former will directly implicate me for being wrong, but the latter description does nothing to me - it only implicates my parent and I have no share in what my parents have done ... Do you see what I am saying? In no way can this be a divine label given to us ... It can only be meant as a statement to "insult" us because people don't want their parents to be called any names.
The question here is - "why would a pious person want to hurt our feelings by calling our parents these things?"
A slave of Allah is indeed a noble designation, but a slave of Man? C'mon pysah I don't even know how you come up with this one now!
Aren't your parents accountable when they lie to you and raise you contrary to what the real teachings are? Does not Allah say in the Qur'an you shall leave your parents when they stand between you and God? Even the Holy Prophet (saw) said that they will be accountable if Muslim parents don't raise their Children as Muslims. So it is the fault of the parents.
*It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon). *
“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Israa’ 17:15]
and when Truth has come and is around the corner, then you as a grown up Man/Woman are indeed responsible when you rejected the call of God and your nature (i.e. Soul) which is in your Body.
i have a question, surely an insult which has been previously translated as 'son of a prostitute' and now 'son of a slave girl' has less chance of meaning 'son of slave of lies' rather implies the common swear word 'b*st**d'??
i have a question, surely an insult which has been previously translated as 'son of a prostitute' and now 'son of a slave girl' has less chance of meaning 'son of slave of lies' rather implies the common swear word 'b*st**d'??
Oh I see, telling the truth becomes an insult. Leading someone astray from God's way is not an insult?
bigboi as far your thread is concerned youve already had atleast two offers to come join in just like everyone else, and to concentrate on common ground. i wouldve thought this was a success for you
i wouldnt mind a genuine answer to my question in post 31
btw im not your enemy, but perhaps me and you will disagree alot??
I read your post but how and from where you would like to bring us all under ‘One Roof’. I found your comments sounds like you are lil bit confused. You wanna share something with everyone but you don’t, don’t knw why?. If there is anything feel free to pm me.
Peace Mr.Popat,
So far in this thread ‘none’ have given any fatwa.
Circle of Islam = one who revert to religion Islam.
Yes all the sects inside this circle.
Almighty Allah said in His Book “Holy Qur’an” that 'He will forgive any sin except “Shirk” which is unforgivable.
A slave of Allah is indeed a noble designation, but a slave of Man? C'mon pysah I don't even know how you come up with this one now!
Aren't your parents accountable when they lie to you and raise you contrary to what the real teachings are? Does not Allah say in the Qur'an you shall leave your parents when they stand between you and God? Even the Holy Prophet (saw) said that they will be accountable if Muslim parents don't raise their Children as Muslims. So it is the fault of the parents.
*It was narrated from Abu Hurayrah (may Allaah be pleased with him) that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Every child is born in a state of fitrah (the natural state of man, i.e., Islam), then his parents make him into a Jew or a Christian or a Magian.” (Agreed upon). *
“And We never punish until We have sent a Messenger (to give warning)” [al-Israa’ 17:15]
and when Truth has come and is around the corner, then you as a grown up Man/Woman are indeed responsible when you rejected the call of God and your nature (i.e. Soul) which is in your Body.
Peace Bigboi
I was skirting around the illegit slur that shardmanny has made obvious to us. In shariah children born out of wedlock are not to be blamed for their parent's act ... But you see the idea behind calling an illegitimate person "a b-word" is to insult him. It serves no great wise purpose.
Parents are responsible for raising their children badly yes, but if a grown man rejected your "messiah" what blame goes to his parents who are probably in the grave and are completely unaware of his presence?
So far in this thread 'none' have given any fatwa. :)
.
You talk about this thread alone. I'm talking about our thinking in general. 'None' in this thread have said they're better than any other either.
Do you think it is ok to declare anyone u like as non muslim? we're trying to come up with similarities which can unite us right? does giving fatwa of anyone being non muslim help in this matter ? I'm not talking about one particular jamaat but most of the major sects call eachother kafir. Does it help in uniting?
Maybe I'm too harsh/confused or whatever but personally speaking I'd think about my father that he is a ******* when he would've killed me by leading me astray. He would be a ******* because he wanted me to love this hypocrite world where everyone stabs you in the back and brings you away from God and shuts the door of salvation.
Pysah had agreed with me on the point that if a father does not take his children to the Mosque is a murderer. He was saying this makes sense. So what is a murderer? There is no other definition than ******* who shall rot in Hell for his entire life and never ever enter Paradise.
Maybe I'm just frustrated but none of you is the reason. I may dig this topic out someday, I have no power to continue the discussion at the moment. I feel sick. Keep me in your prayers.
I do not blame you for rejecting the Messiah. That is pure assumption.
Rasool-ul-Allah (saw) himself said that the parents are account accountable, so why do you blame/attack me?
"do you want us to leave what our forefather believed in"...
a merry old dance with a merry old sound...
I love you all...
Allah Hafiz.
I'm going for a break, I have to find myself again...Please keep me in your prayers. Loving God means accepting this World as it is.
… It doesn’t matter, these are differences as I mentioned earlier … We can still work for good mutually beneficial ends despite these beliefs that you hold about us and despite the way we do not acknowledge your prophet. BUT … this is the way to get peace … We have to grow very thick skins … Knowing what we know about one another we should still be civil and work together !!!
