Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
ok sara516 is gonna come anytime now and go:
i bite my nails 
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
And no surprises from you who wants the religion forum to be nothing but a sunni fundamentalist forum. Why is it called religion forum if you impose your version of religion? Go ahead and rename it already. Armughal’s Kingdom would be ok. Or Sunni Fundamentalist Forum. Or If You Don’t Think Like Us You Are Going To Hell Forum. Or the Closed Minded Forum. Lots of choices that would be a better fit than Religion Forum, cuz that is not an accurate title for the domain you have made your own.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
a word for the wise:
Umar (ra), during his days of khilafat, had with him an ambassador of Rome (i think it was Rome, cud have been some other country) and along with some other companions was having a meal with him, ofcourse hosted by Umar (ra)....
during the meal, the food fell from Umar (ra)'s hand on to the tablecloth, and according to the sunnah of the Holy Prophet (saw), he picked it up and ate it....
one of the companions did not like this and told him that we had a guest with us from outside, and it was better to show more "etiquettes" and to leave the fallen food, what will eh think of us????
Umar (ra) got very angry at him cuz of the suggestion that he shud forsake a Sunnah to please a non-muslim....
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
No, he’s being emotional.
We muslims are known for using our hearts and not our heads in any matter of life. No logic but emotions.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
Which of my views do you find fundamentalist? And what is a fundamentalist? Someone who sticks to the given path? A Mullah?
Then your own Prophet :saw: would be the most hardcore fundamentalist and Mullah of them all…He had a beard, prevented people from doing wrong, took up arms against injustice, meted out punishments to those who did wrong, spoke out openly against corruption, walked, talked and behaved as was in the Quran…
So, who else do you think is a Mullah?
I thought you would be wiser than this? What desires would they have? That our daughters and mothers start having boyfriends, start drinking in pubs, do everything they do in their path to destruction…They want Muslims to do the same, not knowing the pleasures of this world are for 2 days and the afterlife is for an eternity…
And knowledge? If you can’t tell what knowledge has come to the Muslims, then I shouldn’t even be explaining anything to you…
First realize what knowledge it was that came to the Muslims…Probably a well raised 5 year old Muslim child will explain that to you…
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
Sad how someone who claims to be a devoted muslim reduce the prophet to the level of a ‘mullah’
A mullah as per me is a hypocrite whose Islam consists of 4 marriages, interpreting Quran’s different verses as a permission of abusing the muslim women and much more what is NOT advocated by the Quran.
Oh… does your Islam also start from and ends at 'daughters/mothers having boy friends/drinking, 4 marriages, etc. or is there more to your Islamic belief?
Do you know it? Are you sure you are following what you know? Or only preaching?
Do you really think I asked that question to ‘seek knowledge’ from YOU? I asked that to know what knowledge is as per YOUR understanding not mine. But alas you did not tell me.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
^^
Define Mullah to me as you would define to a 7 year old...Let's hear your definition of a Mullah...
As for knowledge and what I think it is, it's Islam...
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
Don’t offer apologies even if you are being sardonic. I have always had the conviction that inter-faith dialogue was a colossal waste of time. Lamentably, I have now more reasons than ever to strengthen my conviction.
Brother Lajjo, let’s not window dress islam and make it palatable to those who are constantly trying to find holes in it. If they deem islam to be intolerant and violent, then so be it. It’s a folly to assume that inter-faith dialogue**–the way we do it **-- will attract non-believers to Islam. Hidayet comes from Allah (swt). If a man is to embrace islam, he will do so as result of direct blessing from Allah. I stand by what Armughal said, and i think he shouldn’t budge from it one iota.
If Qur’an states unequivocally that non-muslims will go to hell, then non-muslims will go to hell.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
Lajwab, no one is saying that you should not adhere to the commandemnts of Allah. No one says to leave the Quran and join Christains, Jews, Hindus or “mod Islam” as you put it. I am merely asking you to understand the other point of view, which you along with Armughal refuse to see.
Did prophet :saw: not sign treaties with jews/christians/pagans of that time? No need to go into details…just answer yes or no. Did he not declare the home of Abu Jahil a safe haven after the war?
Lastly, armughal what exactly is the context of the verse that you worked so hard to dig up? Please enlighten us as to when Allah sent this commandment down.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
no, he never did…
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
He did not.....so that incident is a myth that he did? Be more specific...In the meantime I will wait for the context and your explaination of the verse.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
and while u r at it kaleem, show us how many times did the Prophet (saw) teach his people to be diplomatic and said "those who dont believe in me and think i am an imposter will aslo go to heaven", or "hey, there is no religion or anything, do what u like, we will all be together in paradise, there is no hell for anyone", or when he heard anyone saying somethnig stupid about Allah and said "let him be, lets tolerate him"....
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
no, he never did, he declared abu jahal to be the FIRAWN (paharoah as some ppl like to read it) of this ummah…
and was very happy with those who cut off his head in the war…
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
Here, I paste it for you again:
“A mullah is a hypocrite whose Islam consists of 4 marriages, interpreting Quran’s different verses as a permission of abusing the muslim women and much more what is NOT advocated by the Quran.”
So, then I’ll ask you what ‘Islam’ is. And you will present your views of Islam about daughters, mothers, 4 marriages, killing jews, killing christains, killing everyone but those who share your views. And your views will be that any muslims who does not share your views is outside Islam. Those are the views of an extremist mullah. Hence, it will scare all those new to Islam and moderate muslims away. Nice way of serving Islam, isnt it?
If you are not a mullah, you will have better views which will give respect to the Islamic belief. Not present it in some derogatory manner stemming from insecure minds of a mullah. It will attract people with its’ openness as did in its’ earliest days. Not driving the crowds away spreading the word about Islam as some new-age belief followed by some compulsive, obssessive psychopathic bunch of people.
Please do not disrespect what deserves respect not only from those ‘born’ with the belief but also those who need to find it.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
and in case u meant giving refuge to ppl who seek shelter in the home of Abu Sufyan at the time of the conquest of Makkah, then u surely missed this as well: at that time Abu Sufyan (ra) had accepted Islam....
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
I believe the safe haven was the house of Abu Sufyan 
…
But tell me Kaleem, what is the difference between telling what is in Islam and signing treaties?
I’ll tell you…The treaty signing was for peace…Not beliefs…Never did the treaty involve a part where one aspect of Islam was thrown out or hidden while accepting something from another faith…
I remember an instance in which the Holy Prophet :saw: was approached by the Kuffar of Makkah and was told, that we would let you use the Kaa’ba if you worship our way, just for a little while, as well…
Did the Prophet :saw: do it? Did the Prophet :saw: ever say, that non-believers as well as Muslims will go to heaven and that all are same in the eyes of Allah :swt:? Just to appease the Kuffar?
The Quran states, that error stands clear from Truth…So proclaim the truth if you have the guts to be Muslims…Tell the non-believers that there is hellfire waiting for them to their face…It’s the Truth, right? It makes them bite their nails, chew they lips and whatnot, but hey…It’s the Truth…
And if someone can’t uphold the Truth in Islam, what are they?
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
^^ who's gonna listen to your "Truth" if u tell them to their faces they are going to hell?
do u want them to listen to your truth or a chance to kill them/make them chew lips, bite nails etc?
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
OK…Let’s tackle this small and tiny sentence first…
“A Mullah is a hypocrite whose Islam consists of 4 marriages”
OK…So any Muslim who believes in 4 marriages is a Mullah…Well, you know who had 4 marriages…The Prophet :saw: right? Does that 
make him a hypocrite?
“interpreting Quran’s different verses as a permission of abusing the muslim women”
OK…I am sure you must have at least one example of such a case by a ‘Mullah’…I don’t want many, but just 3 maybe 4 small examples of abuse justified against women by a Mullah…You say different verses, I am sure by making this tremendously bold statement, you definitely must have some sort of an example…Otherwise you wouldn’t be making such a bold statement…Can I have thoise examples please?
“and much more what is NOT advocated by the Quran”
How about an example of a Mullah advocating what is not in the Quran…Just one…
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
And how do you define 'non-believers'?
For a mullah jews, christains, and all those muslims who do not follow HIS beliefs are non-believers. Who do you call 'non-believers'? For me, anyone who denies the existance of a God is a 'non-believer'. The criteria can be as small as you want to make it. It all depends on the capacity of your own mind.
Re: Obtuse logic at gupshup
^in that case, Quran shud have been moer diplomatic than saying it staright out that non-muslims r going to hell....
Allah did not think that who wud listen to His Truth if he told them in their faces that they r going to hell....