Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Wuzu (Wudu - whatever)

Not really.

In Shia Islam (well, at least in Asna Ashari Shiism), the 5 daily prayers are combined such that there are only 3 prayer times, for precisely the reason you mentioned.

What is this now...
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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Not really Janab. We combine for convenience because the prophet did so on certain occasions not as a norm like we do. Each prayer has a temporal connotation which is meaningless without the separation. Also there is the concept of awwal waqt where it is better to pray at the correct time

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Peace Seminole

I did provide you with the reference in the Qur'an pertaining to 5 prayers.

Surah 20 Verse 130

So far you have no comment

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

When I've asked Shia relatives about it, they mention that the Prophet used, but they definitely also point out that the Quran only mentions three prayer times and combining prayers brings their practice more in line with that...

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Peace janab-e-ali

Then perhaps your family may have forgotten about Surah 20 Verse 130 ???

To me it is clear that the Qur'an mentions all of the prayer times. However, to those who say the Qur'an ONLY mentions 3 prayer times. It does not mean at any point that the Qur'an ONLY legislates those 3 prayer times and no more. For that to be true you will need to provide a verse that does more than just mention prayer times but instead say ... such and such has been prescribed for you for such and such times no more no less etc.

However, please read 20:130 to satisfy your concerns.

Why are women so na-shukri??
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Re: Wuzu (Wudu - whatever)

:lifey: you go girl …

here , my solution is simple . Those who think that therer are only 3 obligatory prayers should continue doing 3

Rest of us can stick to 5

My concern is, Prophet could not get that message from Quran and did 5 prayers all his life, but now we have people like Seminole who can find that message .. good job man

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

janab-e-ali I am shia myself. I believe your relatives are mistaken on this account, each prayer has its specific time (the prayers themselves correspond to different times of the day). Please see this from Ayatollah Sistani’s ahkaam (other marajii have similar rulings)

Zuhr and Asar times:

Maghrib and shia times:

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

^ ahem; thats maghrib and isha times. careful you dont go start another controversy.

as for the thread, this is what tends to happens you see when you zone in to one thing and ignore or dissmiss the larger historical picture. you get a distorted version altogether.

Your argument of three prayers may have had held substance, if there werent no scholar there at the time to explain the way forward. That was never, however, the case. You'd think the person who the Quran was revealed to, was capable of explaining the meaning?

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

well how "much" time is actually required?

it hardly takes 5 minutes to pray obligatory prayers, including wudu 7 may be

so wats so hard in getting 25 mins from 24 hours to pray

we have 7 mins to open threads on GS but its hard for us to get up and pray for seven minutes!

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

i can say alot here ..and ppl like seminole would be offended ..so i wont .

but .. In Islam even from the Teachings of the PROPHET SAW .. NO where it says only 3 are Fard ..and its always been 5 although initially they were 50 .. but due to SERTAIN ppl of the prophets SAW time .. there were individuals who were ALLOWED only by the permission of the Prophet SAW to pray less than 5 but eventually they - INDIVIDUALS were Ordered to pray the full 5 .... but no where it says less than 5 ..not even 4 ..

and merely .. those who proclaim to read under 5 ... is merely an opinion or a misconception ..of what they have derived from the Qur'aan.. and Ijtihaad can be wrong .. and there happens to be some followers of that opinnion. and secondly .. In the Quraan it says pray .. but does it say how ..NOPE .. how ..part comes from the Prophget SAW .. and basically .. who knows more the Mankind or the Prophet SAW upon whom the Quraan was revealed .. so therefore, like the Prophet SAW said ..''Salle Ka maa Ra'aitumooni'' ...Pray the way i pray .. and everywhre its always mentioned ..that the Prophet SAW prayed 5 Times ...

alot more can be said but for the people of wisdom .. this is enough :)

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Yea . i agree with you hear .. Kali .. it never takes a decade to pray 5 prayers .but only 25 mins ....and plus....

if you really think that your praying cos Allah said .. then dont even pray .. 3 cos Allah doesnt Need em .... its you who needs em ..in order to gain the in Abundance Reward... its for personal Benifit.. and therefore, we shouyld be saying is it 3 or 5 .. we should be say ONLY IF We had the ability to pray all the time ..and the number of prayers didnt matter..cos the more we pray the more we gain .. cos end of the day if whole of mankind stop praying totally from the time of Prayer being Fard .. till the End of qiyaamat.. it still wudnt make a grain of sand worth difference to Allah SWT's status and Almighty'ness ...and never think tht your doing ''Ihsan'' on Allah by praying ...for all i care ... dont even pray at all and see what happens... :)

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Peace All

Some above concepts are critical. We cannot return the favour at all by prayer. No one shall enter Paradise except through the Mercy of Allah (SWT). Our purpose of being created is none but to worship God, so those who are arguing against or for the practicality of prayer should bear this in mind. If we had a choice then logically we should be praying as much as possible. It just so turns out that Salah is one form or worship that is done 5 times a day but other forms of worship can be done around these prayers enabling us to worship all the time.

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?


In my reading, Quran-only followers interperet it as only 3 prayers, those that follow hadith interpret it as 5. It is not the easiest verse to understand, for sure.

All other Quranic proofs point to 3. I think the better argument would be for you to just say "we follow Muhammad's example" since you apparently don't have any issue with Muhammad receiving revelations from Allah outside of what was revealed in the Quran. That will cover most all of your bases on practicing things as part of Islam that weren't actually God's (protected) words from the Quran.

But I think since most Muslims believe God created us soley to worsihp him would agree that either number is a minimum.

chalo aao sab guppies..have your cake pie..
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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Seminole has his own spread the disease agenda and has been a pain for years now. It's high time us old timers stopped taking him seriously; he literally takes the p--- and enjoys every minute of it.

Which old Guppies do you wish come back to GS?
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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Please feel free to add me to your ignore list and I'll do the same since I find the "my religion is the only true religion and all others are false" and "my religion is better than your religion" kind of posts rather nauseating.

But FYI... just becuase you don't agree with (or want to face up to) my posts don't mean it's spreading disesase or not serious.

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

That's quite a childish thing to do that adding ppl to ignore list(s), so thanks but no thanks! I don't think the rest of what you wrote applies to me as I don't ever recall saying my religion is the best & urs isn't. My old posts remain unedited so go through them for reference, if required.

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Peace Seminole

Just to make things easier for all to view here are the references for prayer in the Qur'an:

11:114 Two ends of day and in the night (IS)
17:78-9 From Midday Until Darkness, recite in dawn, parts of night (IS)
20:130 Before rising sun, before setting, during some of night, and ends of day (SH)
30:17-8 Come up to evening, when enter the morning, in afternoon, when day begins to decline (S)
50:39-40 before rising of sun, before setting, during part of night (SH)
52:48-9 when get up, night time, at star set (SH)
73:1-6 most of night, just less than half of night, or just more (Q)
73:20 <2/3, 1/2 night, 1/3 of night (Q)

The terms IqamasSalah (IS), Sabbih Hamdih (SH) and Qoomi (Q), translate to, perform Salah, Glorify/Praises and Stand. These three terms in the above context are identical. To support this, the way the instructions are phrased are the same, such as two ends of the day is reflected in an (IS) ayat as well as an (SH) ayat. The same goes with the (Q) ayats.

Also, note that the verses 17:78 to 79 refer to a duration rather than specific times. From Midday Until Darkness. This obviously indicates are range of praying times, it cannot be limited to two. In fact, the Qur'an speaks of 6 prayer times, including Tahujjud - Deep night optional prayer.

Now, going by the tone of your post, you would like me to admit that the Qur'an does not require 5 prayers. And that Muhammad (SAW) had sanctioned 5 due to extra Qur'anic revelation. I believe in extra Qur'an revelation, but I do not agree with your assertion about 5 not being in the Qur'an. The term Hamdih means Praises and this translates to mainly Surah Fatihah which is an obligatory part of Salah. None of the above verses can really be selected in isolation for those who understand Islam from the insiders viewpoint.

I also think it unfair that you have tried to suggest there are ALL other Qur'anic proofs when there are only two verses which specifically refer to (IS) and times, all other verses are either (Q) or (SH) type. Then we have muttawatir hadith which categorically show how the Qur'an should be understood. Of course not being a Muslim and attempting to find discord in the Qur'an as suggested by your topic name, you have been thrown off course by the Qur'an. None of these verse LIMIT the number of prayers to either 5 or 3 so the question in the topic has been redundant from the beginning.

Though I find your approach more humourous than others here, you seem to have found yourself a fan, because you artfully have found a way to both be unfairly dismissive of Islam at the same time as being an authority on it, complete with understanding and opinion. LOL

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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

You are the one with the childish post and said to ignore me. I don't have time to go through all your posts, but I assure you it has come up on many occasions.

But a quick search of your posts with my name it did pull this up:

lets send guppies/guppan on date
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Re: Obligatory Prayers : 3 or 5 ?

Well the way u stroll around this forum & stamp on ppl made me say that. Secondly pura thread post kar and we'll see what made me say that. Nitpicking won't help your cause.