I agree. The Quran contains Allah's word and thus is most important.
After all. Prophet Muhammed (PBUH) wasn't a Shia or a Sunni. He was a muslim.
[quote]
Originally posted by Saher:
** wat is the matter with muslims they r told to follow Rasulullah not Hazrat Abu Bakr (as)or Hazrat Usman (as)or Hazrat Ali (as), they were caliphs not prophets.
**
[/quote]
We believe that we were told to follow Hazrat Ali (AS). On a number of occasions the prophet (SAW) repeated the hadith known as hadith al-Thaqalayn. Below is one of the occassions at Ghadir-e-Khum.
AlNasa'i in his alSunan alkubra, 96, No. 79, records the following tradition in the chapter "Khasa'is `Ali":
AlNasa'i narrates from Muhammad ibn alMuthanna, he from Yahya ibn Hammad, from Abu 'Uwwanah, from Sulayman, from Habib ibn Abi Thabit, from Abu alTufayl, from Zayd ibn Arqam, who said, "When the Messenger of Allah (A) returned from the last hajj and came down at Ghadir Khumm....
"Then he declared: 'I am about to answer the call (of death). Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other: the Book of God and my Itrah, my Ahl alBayt. So watch out how you treat them after me. For, indeed, they will never separate until they return to me by the side of the Pond.' Then he said, 'Verily, God is my master (mawlaya) and I am the wali of every believer.' Then he tookAli's hand and declared, 'To whomever I am his wali, this one is also his wali. My God, befriend whoever befriends him and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him.'" Abu alTufayl says: "I said to Zayd, 'Did you hear it from the Prophet(S)?' He replied, 'There was no one in the caravan who did not see it with his eyes and hear it with his ears,'"
Khasa'is Ali is part of alNasa'i's alSunan alkubra as shown by the 3rd volume of the MS in the king's collection in Morocco, written in 759/1358 folios 81-117. See also in this regard the introduction of alKhasa'is (Kuwait: Maktabat alMualla, 1406), ed. by Ahmad Mirayn Balushi. The editor states that this tradition is sahih and its transmitters are thiqah.
Among others who have recorded it in their books are:
1. Al-Bukhari, alTa'rikh alkabir, iii, 96;
2. Muslim, Sahih, bab fada'il Ali, no. 2408; Abd ibn Humayd, Musnad, no. 265;
3. Ahmad, Musnad, iii, 17, iv, 366;
4.
5. Ibn Sad, and la from Abu Sa
6. Abu Yaid, as mentioned in Jam aljawamiand Kanz alummal;
7. Ishaq ibn Rahwayh, in his Sahih., as mentioned by Ibn Hajar in alMatalib alaliyah, iv, 65, no. 1873, where he states that its isnad is sahih, and also by al-Busayri in Ithaf alsadah (MS in Topcopi Library, vol. 3, F.55b) who, too, considers the isnad as sahih; qubi, Ta'rikh, ii, 112;
8. Ibn Khuzaymah, Sahih, MS in Topcopi Library, F.240;
9. alDarimi, Sunan, ii, 310, no. 2319;
10. Abu Dawud, Sunan, as mentioned in Sibt ibn alJawzi, Tadhkirat khawass al'ummah, 322;
11. Abu 'Uwwanah, Musnad, as mentioned in alShaykhani, alSirat alsawi;
12. alBazzaz, from Umm Hani, as mentioned in Wasilat alma'al;
13. Ibn Abi 'Asim, Kitab alSunnah, 629, no. 1551, 630, no. 1555, 629, no. 1551;
14. alYa
15. alBaladhuri, Ansab al'ashraf, 110, no. 48, the biographical account of Ali (A); aym, alHilyah, i, 355,
16. alHafiz alHasan ibn Sufyan alNasawi, the author of Musnad, from Hudhayfah ibn Usayd, as mentioned by Abu Nu
17. alFasawi, alMarifah wa alta'rikh, i, 536; id alKhudri, as cited in Jam
18. Ibn Jarir alTabari, from Hudhayfah ibn Usayd, Zayd ibn Arqam (with alNasa'i's wording as well as with the wording of Muslim), Abu Saaljawami, ii, 357, 395, Kanz al-ummal, 12911, xiii, 36441, 36340, 37620, 37621, 36341, Jami al-'ahadith, vii, 14523, 15112, 15122, 15113, iv, 7773, 8072, 8073;
19. alDulabi, alDhurriyyat altahirah, no. 228;
20. alHafiz alTahawi, Mushkil al 'athar, ii, 307, iv, 368;
21. alHakim alTirmidhi, Nawadir al-'usul, from Hudhayfah ibn Usayd;
22. alTabarani, alMujam alkabir, iii, 2679, 2681, 2683, 3052, v, 4969, 4970, 4971, 4986, 5026, 5028; ala alSahihayn, iii, 109, 110 where he expressly states, as mentioned above, that the tradition is sahih in accordance with the criteria of alBukhari and Muslim; alDhahabi has confirmed his judgement;
23. alHakim, alMustadrak
24. Abu Nuaym, Hilyat al'awliya', i, 355, ix, 64; Asakir, Ta'rikh Dimashq, ii, 45, no. 547, the biographical account of
25. alBayhaqi, alSunan alkubra, ii, 148, vii, 30, x, 114;
26. alKhatib, Ta'rikh Baghdad, viii, 442;
27. Ibn alMaghazili, Manaqib Amir alMu'minin (A), 23;
28. IbnAli (A), and v, 436 of Badran's edition in the biographical account of Zayd ibn Arqam; abbidin, v, 199;
29. alBaghawi, Masabih alSunnah, ii, 205 and Sharh alSunnah (MS in Topcopi Libary, vol. 2, F. 718), bab Manaqib Ahl alBayt;
30. Ibn al'Athir, Usd alghabah, iii, 92 in the biographical account of 'Amir ibn Layla, no. 2727;
31. Ibn Hajar, al'Isabah in the biographical account of 'Amir;
32. al-Mizzi, Tuhafat al'ashraf, iii, 203, no. 3688 from Muslim and alNasa'i;
33. alDiya' alMuqaddisi, alMukhtarah, as cited by alSamhudi and alSakhawi;
34. Ibn Taymiyyah, Minhaj alSunnah, iv, 85;
35. al-Dhahabi, Talkhis alMustadrak, iii, 109;
36. Ibn Kathir, alBidayah wa alnihayah, v, 209, vi, 199, from alNasa'i, where he quotes alNasa'i's statement that this narration is sahih;
37. alKhazin, Tafsir under verses 42:23 and 3:103;
38. alMulla, Wasilat almuta
39. al-Haythami, Majma` alzawa'id, ix, 163 from Zayd, 164 from Hudhayfah.
Al-Hijr:15/9:We have,without doubt,sent down the Message,and We will assuredly Guard it (from Corruption).
Nahl:89:We have sent down to thee the Book explaining all things , a Guide , a Mercy, and Glad Tidings to Muslims .
Nahl:102:The Holy Spirit has brought the Revelation from thy Lord in Truth, in order to Strengthen those who believe , and as a Guide and Glad Tidings to Muslims .
Anbiyaa:21/10:We have revealed for you (O men!) a Book in which is a Message for you;will ye not then understand?
Anbiyaa:50:This is a Blessed Message which We have sent down; will ye then reject it ?
Inquilab,
Thanks for those verses from the Quran.
Tell me, who interprets the meanings of those verses?
For you, the answer is the 7th century sunnah as compliled by bukhari & co. If you follow these sunnahs then all the answers will point to this 7th century circa.
The options are:
i) that each muslim can 'interpret' quran according to his/her own agenda or,
ii) follow quran as per 'Religious Authority' in Islam and that is an Ahle Bayt Imam who guides according to time & place.
Qasas: 75 :And from each people shall We draw a witness, and We shall say:'Produce your Proof': then shall they know that the Truth is with Allah(alone),and the (lies) which they invented will leave them in the lurch.
Shura: 17 :It is Allah Who has sent down the Book in truth, and the Balance and what will make thee realise that perhaps the Hour is close at hand?
Shura: 18 : only those wish to hasten it who believe not in it:those who believe hold it in awe,and know that it is the Truth.Behold,verily those that dispute concerning the Hour are far astray .
Al-i-Imran: 60 :The Truth (comes) from thy Lord alone; so be not of those who doubt.
[This message has been edited by Inquilab (edited August 20, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Inquilab (edited August 20, 2000).]
Then he declared: 'I am about to answer the call (of death). Verily, I have left two precious things (thaqalayn) among you, one of which is greater than the other: the Book of God and my Itrah, my Ahl alBayt. So watch out how you treat them after me. For, indeed, they will never separate until they return to me by the side of the Pond.' Then he said, 'Verily, God is my master (mawlaya) and I am the wali of every believer.' Then he tookAli's hand and declared, 'To whomever I am his wali, this one is also his wali. My God, befriend whoever befriends him and be hostile to whoever is hostile to him.'"
that is another aspect, of course all of us hv respect for Hazrat Ali, but that is not the point, well this hadith doesnot answer my point. i wasn't asking who the Prophet favoured or not. i was just saying thatwhy not do as Prophet has told us to do, and if u like do wat the sahaba's did as they were the best examples of the true muslims, but donot do wat they wouldn't hv liked and that is do not degrade somebody when he is not there to defend oneself.
Saher,
You make a very valid point in your following comment:
"i wasn't asking who the Prophet favoured or not. i was just saying that why not do as Prophet has told us to do, and if u like do wat the sahaba's did as they were the best examples of the true muslims"
Here's the answer, based on studies & reflections; pls provide your feedback:
1) The 'ways of the prophet (saw)'and those of the sahabas reflect their period i.e the 7th century of the harsh & brutal Arabia. If the followers look for the meanings of the Quran & guidance from the Sunnah or the Way of the Prophet then the guidance will invariably point to the ways of the 7th century as in the matters pertaining to women, non-muslims, education, jehad, charity, etc.
2) By having made the Sunnah as the meanings to the Quran, we have frozen ourselves to the 7th century. This is the 21st century and our interpretations point to the 7th century.
3) We cannot, on one hand, claim that Quran is forever but then freeze its 'evolving interpretations' to the 7th century.
4) That is why the hadith re: 'the 2 weighty things' refer to the Quran & Imam/Leader who as the "Religious Authority" would interpret the Quran and Guide the Ummah as per time & place. This Religious Authority of Imam/Leader rules with the Divine Authority of Allah.
Luv to hear what you think!
faceup , you are right about the point the problems of the world are changing with the time and the words are given for all times.
And do you not what ? Although cloning may provide unfertile parents children but I call it a modernize 'Zina' , just changed its form but it is .
Talibans are wahabis. Their origin starts from Ibn-saud and Abdul-wahab. Both these guys were destroyers of Islam and Islamic heritage in Makkah and Madinah. They massacared muslims in Makkah and Madinah during 1800 and again in 1924. Now their heirs are trying to destroy Islam and trying to give it a bad name by encouraging Talibans.
Check these links:
http://eurasianews.com/disc/_disc1/00000002.htm
http://www.al-islam.org/shrines/baqi.htm
Wassalm,
Muslim786.
Guys;
Read the Quranic ayat where Allah (swt) orders us to obey HIM, and his holy apostle, and those believers that give charity while in prayers.
Have you all even tried to find out who this person is ? Who is Allah (swt) ordering to obey and why give such a specific description (who give charity while in prayers).
Go ask yr sunni alims - its Imam Ali (as) who gave his ring to a beggar while still in prayers.
Try to see the truth and prosper.
PS Jawan * eh Wahabraa - stop harassing others on this board with your fradulent beliefs.
You all are like Shaitan, who refused to bow to anyone else (Adam (as)) except Allah (swt). And you know the rest of the story.
So go to hell with your Ibn Tamiyah et Al and call yr lord. If this was the case, the Almighty would not have ordered us to seek the wasiha (means) to approach him nor would our beloved rasool tell his momeens that he would be their intercessor on the day of reckoning.
Only Allah (swt) grants and forgives but he has shown the paths through which to seek him - thru the holy ahl bait.
I have dealt with many wahabras like yourself but I only saw their backs as they run from the truths.
Wa Salam.
Allshah…first of all you are posting some long and pointless posts…which i dont think people are reading well i didnt. Im sure it contains some bullshit about islam and its people, and im sure your ancestors told you.
I understand that you are either mis-understood, mis-quided and confused retared shia or some dirty even worst than that a maarzaaii, or brailvi who is trying his best to make the religion of his ancestors to prevail.
Well my friend its not working. What are you trying to prove with your maggot friends like muslims786, faceup, logical, what are you guys trying to prove besides tell all of the muslim ummah that you are totally absolutly stupid and disgrace to islam.
You and your friends have continuely deny the verses from quran, and hadith of prophet.
You and your friends have continue to claim that “kalimaa” is shirkk.
You and your friends are continue to mention wahabi wahabi…when such thing does NOT exist.
You are and your friends are continue to try your best to divide muslims and creat mis-understanding among them.
You and your friends are continue to make islam harder and more complicated.
You and your friends are continue to make false and untrue hadith and verses from quran.
and finally..my final touches which will light up your world even more…keep a dictionary handy you stupid retards will need it…lol!
you and your friends have continuely shown us how low, stupid, ignorent, contemptible, leprosy, repugnant, reeky, disgracefull, retarded, insignificant, laughable, grotesque, and all the other bad words you guys are.
You guys are nasty and undignified apology for fermenting vat of soggy buzzard leavings!!! <<I know your angry, and now you know more of YOUR self.lol>>
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif
You should be ashamed of your selves! You come here and assume and make up false stuff about the religion of Islam which you do NOT have the knowledge of.
I ask you again to come to True islam, the islam of QURAN and SUNNAH of mohammad, and leave the hindu rituals and practices done by your ancestors. Because every newly added thing in islam is a bid’ah and every bid’ah is going to hell.
And if you dont stop doing what you are you will go to hell with it.
May Allah open your locked hearts and eyes, and shows you the right path, the path of QURAN and SUNNAH of mohammad(pbuh)
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
If not…than Good LUCK IN HELL YOU AGENST OF SHEITAAN, you bloody holiers.
Jaawan
*feels much better now. lol
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/biggrin.gif
till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid
Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!
Hey Jawan * you son of a bit*h;
You read not what others write but you gurgitate what your lanati forefathers have drilled into yr mindless head.
You wahabis are no match for any shias, here or anywhere. Why don't you start discussing about islam with me and let all see how much ibn Tamiyah's mis-guided stooges really know.
You are nothing but horse crap that deviate from the main argument by abusing others.
Your tricks are that of Muwayah and Yazid (Allah's curse be on them), nothing more, nothing less.
What now, we change the kalimah, the Quran, and what else.
Have you any proofs for these baseless allegations, you camel snatch ?
It is the ahl bait that have taught you Islam, and you have the audacity to tell us about what Islam is - and that from heretics like Abdul Wahab and Tamiyah !
You wahabras have destroyed the tombs of the prophet's family and you say that you are guided !
Lanat on you and on your coming generations, you lowly maggot.
Wa Salam to my other brothers/sisters
Shame on you yaar...dont worry i will expose the shia as well!!! Shame on you.
your not soppose to build Tombs, or make graves paved, its NOT in hadith or quran, and prophet never did something like that.
So its a innovation in islam and you put it there. Thats why shame on you maggots who are corrupting islam.
You showed me your true animal like nature by writing the first line in your post. YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED OF YOUR SELF. I feel sorry for your parents. YOU SHOULD STOP POSTING HERE AND CONSIDER SUEING YOUR PARENTS...they have brought a stupidest and idiotic, the most retared person to life...yeah go sue them!!!
SHAME ON YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you bloody holier...you innovator of islam. SHAMEEEEE ON YOUUUUUUUUUUUU IGNORENT PEIcE OF MY CA_CA!!!
Jaawan
till next time**Keep_It_Simple_Stupid**
**Wise Man says:>What I say won't really change anything, but what you say doesn't really matter!
Very good Jawaan;
Let everyone get a feel for your IQ.
So, the building of the prophet's tomb is not written in the hadiths.
Very good. And what did you expect. You wanted the holy apostle of Allah (swt) to build his tomb during his lifetime ?
Hadiths are sayings of the holy messenger during his LIFETIME ? How do you expect to get the latter first ?
And saying salam to the prophet is what herecy ? But sending salutations to your lanati forefathers is part of wahabi teachings.
Talibanic moron in the flesh.
Wahabi fool.
You have clearly suggested that we should add things in islam.
People like you only talk, they dont know nothing about islam. they only rave, rant, and babble about something they dont know, but they wana cause a great deal of islam.
If you wana learn more about your self…do read my FIRST post in this thread.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
I see how stupid and ignorent you are i will just put your annoying asinine THING to ignore. Bye keep barking…you look the best in that…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Jaawan
till next timeKeep_It_Simple_Stupid
Wise Man says:>What I say won’t really change anything, but what you say doesn’t really matter!
You can only hide from Shias by putting them on ignore.
To face them and you lose.
Follow your Taliban villagers who the West for donations or else threaten them with continuing plantations of poppyseeds.
This is yr wahabi Islam at its best
Arai Jawan ab is a11shah ki jaan chorr do naan ,yeh pagal hai , KAbhi kuch prove nahin kara saka , Quran ki ayaton ko apni hi taraf sai relate kar deta hai , shayad is kai paas jo Quran parra hua hai naan us main naam likh likh kai aaye thhai , kai yeh ayat is bandai kai liai likhi hai (Astaghfir Allah).
Er eh Logic kay Bachay;
Stop your crappy urdu and come with cogent arguments.
You wahabras have this habit of accusing without coming with clear proofs.
You are just so good - ya, we have a different Qur'an - keep believing this trash.
You cannot come with any proofs to refute our claims so you expound on yr fictional beliefs.
Go suck Yazid's ass you moron paki.
Loagon ab to yeh a11shah pagal ho gaya hai , ab mujhai wahabi bana diya , bhai a11shah , I really don't know what are is the difference that i will do will make me called a 'Wahabi' , neither I want to be called.Because I am glad with whatever I am and will be glad if I am declared teh righteous on the judgement day.
Dekha Loagon , phir is pagal nai mujhai na jantai huai bhi wahabi bol diya , hai naa yeh pagal. Man there is something logic which needs some circumstances to prove the truth , wothout such kind of things he the a11shah , calls me wahabi, man kiya yeh bhi iski kisi kitab main hai yaah , he gets wahi .
People , PAGAL HAI YEH , IS SAI BACHO !!!!!!!!
Salaaam
Logic dude, you cant claim a person he is wrong until you can prove it, You cannot accuse allshah for making the stuff up about the ayaat, Why dont you research on your books and tell Who this Ayat is refering too,
There must be a reason, Why did Almighty revealed the ayat? Who he might be refering too, You can find it out if you research the time it was reaveled, it will be a more smarter thing to do, to research, then just accusing the other person pagaal.