Not all Sahabahs were righteous

Are The Shi’ites Negative Towards The
Companions?

Muslim scholars differ in answering two questions
pertaining to the companions of the Messenger of
God:

  1. Who are the companions of the Prophet
    Muhammad?

Most of the Sunni scholars consider all those who
adopted Islam during the time of the Prophet, saw
the Prophet, and prayed with him to be of his
companions. However, it seems that the Messenger
himself did not agree with these scholars. Al-Tabari
in his History part 3, page 68, reported that there
was an argument between Khalid Ibn Al-Walid and
Abdul Rahman Ibn Awf when Khalid killed some
members of Banu Jadhimah.

The Messenger of God sent Khalid as a missionary
for Islam (not as a fighter). Khalid exceeded the
order of the Messenger and killed a number of men
from Banu Jadhimah after he gave them the
assurance of no-harm.

Some men from Banu Jadhimah had killed Al-Fakih
Ibn Al-Mughirah Al-Makhzumi, uncle of Khalid,
and Awf Ibn Abd-Awf, father of Abdul Rahman,
before the conquest of Mecca. Now Khalid acted
in revenge in spite of the Prophet’s orders.

In their heated dialogue, Abdul Rahman said to
Khalid: “You followed the method of the
pre-Islamic era.” Khalid said: “I only avenged the
killing of your father.” Abd Al-Rahman: “You lie. I
already killed the killer of my father, but you
avenged the killing of your uncle.”

Their heated argument led to a verbal abuse on the
part of Khalid. When the Prophet found out about
it, he said to Khalid: “…Khalid, leave my
companions alone. By God, should you have a
piece of gold the size of Uhud Mountain, and you
spend it in the path of God, your charity would not
compare to a morning or evening trip in defense of
Islam by any one of my companions.” (Ibn
Hisham, in his Sirat of the Prophet, part 2, page
421).

This statement of the Prophet indicates that Khalid
was not considered a companion of the Prophet
because he told him to leave his companions
alone.

Thus, the Prophet clearly indicated that Khalid is
not one of his companions. Yet, this statement was
uttered by the Prophet after the conquest of Mecca
(which took place two years after Khalid adopted
Islam, shortly after the pact of Al-Hudaybiyyah).

The exclusion of Khalid from the community of the
Prophet’s companions means the exclusion of
thousands of companions who adopted Islam
during the time of the Prophet, who met the
Prophet, and who prayed behind him.

  1. Are all Companions of the Prophet
    Righteous?

The righteousness of all the companions and their
worthiness of confidence are matters about which
the Shi’ites and the Sunnis argue.

The majority of the Sunni scholars believe that all
the companions are righteous and worthy of our
confidence. The Shi’ite scholars are selective.

The Sunni scholars cite Qur’anic verses for
substantiating their claim:

   "Muhammad is the Apostle of God; and
   those who are with him are firm against
   unbelievers, compassionate towards one
   another. You see them bowing and
   prostrating, seeking grace from God and
   His satisfaction ... The mark of
   prostration shows on their faces... Allah
   has promised those among them who
   believe and do righteous deeds
   forgiveness, and a great reward." (ch.
   48. v. 29)

Thus, the Almighty described the companions of
the Messenger as firm against the unbelievers,
merciful among themselves; and that they bow and
prostrate. The mark of their prostration shows on
their foreheads; and that Allah promised those who
believe and do righteous deeds forgiveness and a
great reward.

All these descriptions substantiate the piety and
virtue of the companions. The verse, however,
does not include all the companions. It only
includes the companions who were firm against the
unbelievers, merciful among themselves.

Thus, the companions who were not firm against
the unbelievers or were unmerciful to the believers
would not be included by the verse.

It would be only logical to say that those who shed
the blood of Muslims without justification in civil
wars such as Talhah, Zubayr, and Mu’awiyah are
not included in this Qur’anic statement, plus all
companions who joined them in their unrighteous
wars against Imam Ali, and those who divided the
Muslims and destroyed their unity.

Furthermore, the end of the verse clearly indicates
that the praise was not to include all the
companions because it declares that only those
who believed in Islam and did good deeds will be
entitled to forgiveness and great rewards.

One of the verses which is offered as evidence of
the righteousness of all the companions of the
Prophet is the following:

   "And the early Muslims from the
   Meccan migrants and the Medinite Ansar
   (the helpers) and those who followed
   them with their good deeds, Allah is well
   pleased with them, and they are well
   pleased with Him; and He has prepared
   for them gardens beneath which rivers
   flow, to dwell therein forever. That is the
   mighty achievement." (ch. 9, v. 100)

This verse, however, speaks of the virtue of the
migrants and Medinites who adopted Islam at the
early state of the Islamic era. Thus, it does not
include the thousands of the companions who
adopted Islam after the Hudaybiyyah truce or after
the conquest of Mecca. These were not from the
early Muslims. Their Islam took place about twenty
years after the proclamation of Islam and about
eight years after Hijrah.

Another verse which is cited for the righteousness
of all companions is the following:

   "Allah was well pleased with the
   believers when they swore allegiance
   unto thee beneath the tree; He knew what
   was in their hearts, and He sent down
   tranquility to them and rewarded them
   with a speedy victory..." (ch. 48, v. 18)

This verse also does not include all the companions
who declared their Islam after signing the
Hudaybiyyah pact which took place during the
sixth year after Hijra. The declaration of the
allegiance to the Prophet under the tree took place
shortly before signing the pact.

The companions who gave allegiance under the tree
at Hudaybiyyah were about fourteen hundred.

It is worthy to mention that a number of students of
the companions (such as Sa’id Ibn Al-Musayyab
and Al-Shi’abi and Ibn Sirin) said that the early
migrants were those who prayed to the two Qiblas
(Al-Masjid Al-Aqsa and Al-Ka’bah). (Abu 'Umar
Yusuf Ibn Abd-Barr, Al-Isti’ab part 1, pages 2-3)

Do The Hadiths Of The Prophet Substantiate
The Righteousness Of The Companions

Some scholars tried to substantiate the
righteousness of the companions through a number
of hadiths:

l. It is reported that the Messenger of God said,
“None of those who attended the battle of Badr or
the pact of Hudaybiyyah will enter Hell.”

  1. It is also reported that the Prophet said: “None
    of those who gave their allegiance under the tree
    (during the event of Hudaybiyyah) will enter the
    Fire.” (Ibn Abd al-Barr, page 4)

The two hadiths do not substantiate the
righteousness of any companions except the
companions who were present at Badr and
Hudaybiyyah. Putting them together, their number
would not reach two thousand, while the number of
the companions was much bigger. Those who
attended the conquest of Mecca were ten thousand,
and those who went with the Prophet to Tabuk
were about twenty-five thousand.

Thus, the majority of the companions of the
Prophet would not be included in these two
hadiths.

The Opinions Of The Selectionists

The Shi’ite Muslim scholars did not put all the
companions in one rank; nor did they say that all of
them were righteous. Some of them were righteous
to the highest degree. Some of them were truthful
and worthy of confidence, but they were not
entirely righteous. Some of them were not known to
be righteous or unrighteous, and some of them
were known to be devious.

Qur’anic Verses Support The Selectionists

These scholars who view that some of the
companions were neither righteous nor in a place of
confidence support their view with a number of
Qur’anic verses:

   "And they say: 'obedience'; but when
   they leave thee, some of them spend the
   night planning other than what they say
   to you. Allah records what they plan by
   night. Disregard them and put thy trust in
   Allah. Allah is Sufficient Trustee." (ch.
   4, v. 81)

This verse declares that a number of those who
were residents of Medina were Muslims, and they
prayed with the Prophet and attended his gatherings
and heard the Messenger commanding the Muslims
to do some good deeds. They used to say to the
Prophet: “We heard you and we will obey you;”
but when they left him, they did not obey the
Messenger.

We find in chapter nine of the Holy Qur’an many
verses which indicate that some of the companions
of the Messenger were people of hypocrisy, and
the Messenger did not know their hypocrisy.

   "And among those around you of the
   wandering Arabs are hypocrites and
   among the people of Medina there are
   some who persist in hypocrisy whom
   thou (0 Muhammad) know not. We
   know them and We shall chastise them
   twice; then they will be relegated to a
   painful doom." (ch. 9, v. 101)

   "O Prophet! Combat the disbelievers
   and the hypocrites and be hard on them.
   Their abode is Hell, a hapless journey's
   end. They swear by Allah that they said
   nothing (wrong), yet they did say the
   word of disbelief. They disbelieved after
   they declared their Islam, and they
   plotted that which they could not carry
   out, and they sought revenge only
   because Allah and His Messenger
   enriched them of His bounty..." (ch. 9,
   v. 73)

   "Among them are men who made a
   covenant with Allah (saying): If He gives
   us of His bounty we will give alms and
   become of the righteous. Yet, when He
   gave them of His bounty, they hoarded it
   and turned away, averse. So He made a
   consequence (to be) hypocrisy in their
   hearts until the day when they shall meet
   Him, because they broke their word to
   Allah and because they lied." (ch. 9, vs.
   75-77)

We also find in chapter 33, “The Confederates”:

   "And when the hypocrites, and those in
   whose hearts is a disease say 'Allah and
   His Messenger promised us nothing but
   delusions.' And when a party of them
   said: 'Oh folk of Yathrib! there is no
   stand possible for you; therefore, go
   back.' And some of them even ask
   permission of the Prophet, saying: 'Our
   homes are exposed to the enemy, and
   they lay not exposed.' They only wished
   to flee." (ch. 33, vs. 12-13)

The chapter of Al-Munafiqun is a clear evidence
that a number of Muslims (who declared their Islam
at the time of the Prophet, and lived with him in
Medina, and prayed with him, were hypocrites.
They came to the Prophet to defend themselves by
taking an oath in the presence of the Prophet that
they did not betray him, and they were liars. They
had believed in Islam then deserted it and Allah
sealed their hearts.

   "When the hypocrites come to thee (O
   Muhammad), they say: 'We bear witness
   that thou art indeed Allah's Messenger.
   And Allah knows that thou art indeed
   His Messenger, and Allah bears witness
   that the hypocrites indeed are speaking
   falsely. They made their oaths a shield
   so that they may turn (men) from the
   way of Allah. Verily, evil is that which
   they wanted to do. That is because they
   believed and then disbelieved; therefore,
   their hearts were sealed so that they
   understand not.' " (ch. 63, vs. 1-3)

These numerous verses which are in many of the
Qur’anic chapters testify clearly that many of the
people who declared Islam during the time of the
Prophet, and who lived and prayed with him, were
hypocrites. What testimony could be bigger than
the testimony of the Qur’an?

These hypocrites were living with the rest of the
companions, and their names were not known.
Therefore, it is impossible to avoid taking hadiths
from them or know how many they were.
Historians, among them Al-Tabari in his History,
part 2, page 504, and Ibn Hisham in his Al-Sirah
Al-Nabawiyyah, part 2, page 64, reported that
when the Messenger went with his army to Uhud,
he had with him one thousand companions. But
Abdullah Ibn Abi Salul left the Prophet and went
back to Medina accompanying three hundred from
the Medinites. Islamic history did not inform us of
the names of any of the three hundred except the
name of their chief, Abdullah Ibn Abi Salul.

Knowing that the situation was so, how can we
avoid taking hadiths from these hypocrites, who
were not separated from the good companions
through any mark of distinction?

The Companions Who Shed The Blood Of The
Muslims

We should not forget that there were among the
companions some prominent men such as Talhah,
Zubayr, Mu’awiyah, Amr Ibn Al-As, Al-Nu’man Ibn
Bashir, and Samurah Ibn Jundab who shed Muslim
blood. These should not be considered in a place
of confidence after they shed the blood of
thousands of Muslims in order to reach their
worldly goals.

Allah declared in His book the following:

   "And whoever kills a believer
   deliberately, his reward is Hell forever,
   and the wrath of God is upon him, and
   He cursed him and prepared for him a
   great punishment." (ch. 4, v. 73)

Thus, if a person kills a believer, his abode will be
the Fire and the wrath of Allah is upon him, and He
curses him and prepares for him a great
chastisement. This will be the fate of people such
as Mu’awiyah, Amr Ibn Al-As, Talhah, and Zubayr
who shed the blood of more than forty-thousand
Muslims.

It would be very illogical to consider people who
committed so many sins righteous and their reports
acceptable. There are people who say that these
men who committed such sins are from the
companions whom Allah likes, because they were
from the early Meccan and Medinite Muslims, and
they were among the ones who gave their allegiance
to the Messenger under the tree of Hudaybiyyah.
These are from among the ones whom Allah was
pleased with; and whoever Allah was pleased with
one time, He will never be angry with. This would
be clear when we look at the end of the verse which
gives the early Muslims of Mecca and the Medinite
the good tidings that they will have gardens under
which rivers flow, wherein they will dwell forever.

But this verse and the verse of allegiance under the
tree of Hudaybiyyah did not include men such as
Mu’awiyah and Amr Ibn Al-As because they were
not from the early Muslims nor from the early
migrants from Mecca to Medina; nor were they
from the people of the allegiance under the tree of
Hudaybiyyah. Amr Ibn Al-As adopted Islam after
Hudaybiyyah and Mu’awiyah adopted Islam after
the conquest of Mecca.

Furthermore, we cannot find in the Qur’an any
verse that declares that whomever God has been
pleased with, God will not be angry with.

It is inconceivable that Allah will give a permanent
immunity against punishment to a person who did a
good deed, such as being of the early Muslims or
early migrants from Mecca to Medina, and that
Allah will forgive his shedding the blood of
thousands of believers without any justification. If it
were so, it would mean that a companion could
cancel all the Qur’anic rules and the instructions of
the Prophet. Certainly, we can not believe this when
we remember that Allah said to His own Messenger
Muhammad: “Say: surely I fear (if I disobey my
Lord) the chastisement of a grievous day.” (ch. 6,
v. 15)

If a companion can interpret the Qur’anic verses
and the Prophet’s words the way he wants, he may
be able to give a verdict that the five daily prayers
are only desirable and not imperative. He may say
"I understand from Aqimu Al-Salat (offer prayer)
that the prayer is only desirable. Nor do I
understand from the word “salat” that it has to
contain bowing and prostrating, or reading from the
Qur’an or the declaration of the Shahadah. It
would be sufficient in the prayer to supplicate the
Lord to forgive or to give sustenance or to prolong
life because the word Salat used to mean
supplication before Islam.

The Messenger Of God Predicted The
Deviation Of Many Of His Companions

The Messenger informed the Muslims that many of
his companions will deviate after him. Al-Bukhari in
his Sahih, part 2, page 149, reported that the
Prophet said:

   "A number of my companions will come
   to drink from the basin. When I
   recognize them, they will be taken away
   from my sight. I would say: 'My Lord,
   these are my companions.' And Allah
   will say: 'You do not know what they
   innovated after you.' "

The same source, page 150, recorded that Abu
Hazim reported that Sahl Ibn Sa’d reported that the
Prophet said:

“I shall come to the Hawd (basin of water) before
you. Whoever meets me there will drink water. And
whoever drinks of it will never be thirsty
afterwards. Groups will come to me, and I will
recognize them and they will recognize me and they
will be screened from me.” Abu Hazim said:
"Al-Nu’man Ibn Ayyash heard me and said: ‘I
testify that Abu Sa’id Al-Khudri said and I heard
him adding to it the following: I will say: "May God
put away from me whoever deviated after me.’ "

Similar to this is reported by Muslim in his Sahih,
part 15, pages 53-54. Al-Bukhari reported in the
section of Al-Hawd that Abu Hurayrah reported
that the Messenger of God said:

   "On the Day of Judgement a group of
   my companions will come to the Hawd
   (Basin), and they will be prevented from
   drinking out of the basin. I will say: 'My
   Lord, these are my companions.' He will
   say: 'Certainly you do not know what
   they innovated after you. They deserted
   their religion.' "

Al-Bukhari reported in his Sahih, part 4, page 169,
that one reporter quoted Ibn Abbas as saying that
the Prophet said:

   "You will be resurrected bare footed,
   unclothed, and uncircumcised." Then he
   read: 'As We started the first creation,
   We shall resurrect it, a promise on Our
   part. Certainly We shall fulfill it.' "

   "Certainly a number of my companions
   will be taken to the left side, and I will
   say: 'My companions, my companions.'
   Allah will say: 'They continued deserting
   their faith after you left them.'"

   I will say as the good servant of God
   (the Messiah) said: "And I was a witness
   on them as long as I was with them..."

Muslim in his Sahih, part 10, page 59, reported that
the Messenger of God said: "I will be the first one
to come to the Basin, and I shall be challenged
about some people and I will lose them, then I will
say: ‘My Lord, these are my companions; these are
my companions.’ I will be told: ‘You do not know
what they innovated after you.’ "

Muslim in his Sahih, part 10, page 64, recorded
that Anas Ibn Malik reported that the Prophet said:

   "Men from among the people who
   accompanied me shall come (on the Day
   of Judgement) to the Basin. When I see
   them and they are brought to me, they
   will be taken away from me. I will say:
   'My Lord, these are my companions.' It
   will be said to me: 'You do not know
   what they innovated after you.' "

Feedback from my sunni brothers and sisters ?

a11shah you are continnuously giving illogical unproved comments about somebody with the fallacy of personal likings and dislikings , grow up man and talk with full support of logical arguments which could be proved logically .
a11shah , stop this non sense now since we are friends and Holy Quran tells us through Surah Maida : 60 :"Take not for Friends and Protectors those who take your religion for a mockery or sport , whether among those who recieved the Scripture before you , or among those who reject Faith."

Bismillah,
This is My Reply :).All Hadis From Sahih Bukhari. all Can be found at the Hadis Database at the given address
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/057.sbt.html

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 6:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

Allah’s Apostle addressed the people saying, “Allah has given option to a slave to choose this world or what is with Him. The slave has chosen what is with Allah.” Abu Bakr wept, and we were astonished at his weeping caused by what the Prophet mentioned as to a Slave ( of Allah) who had been offered a choice, (we learned later on) that Allah’s Apostle himself was the person who was given the choice, and that Abu Bakr knew best of all of us. Allah’s Apostle added, “The person who has favored me most of all both with his company and wealth, is Abu Bakr. If I were to take a Khalil other than my Lord, I would have taken Abu Bakr as such, but (what relates us) is the Islamic brotherhood and friendliness. All the gates of the Mosque should be closed except the gate of Abu Bakr.”

And Again:

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 11:
Narrated Jubair bin Mutim:

A woman came to the Prophet who ordered her to return to him again. She said, “What if I came and did not find you?” as if she wanted to say, “If I found you dead?” The Prophet said, “If you should not find me, go to Abu Bakr.”

and Heres Proof For All Of The 3:

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 14:
Narrated 'Amr bin Al-As:
The Prophet deputed me to read the Army of
Dhat-as-Salasil. I came to him and said, “Who is the most beloved person to you?” He said, " 'Aisha." I asked, “Among the men?” He said, “Her father.” I said, “Who then?” He said, “Then 'Umar bin Al-Khattab.” He then named other men.

And This Final Hadis:

Volume 5, Book 57, Number 20:
Narrated Muhammad bin Al-Hanafiya:

I asked my father ('Ali bin Abi Talib), “Who are the best people after Allah’s Apostle ?” He said, “Abu Bakr.” I asked, “Who then?” He said, "Then 'Umar. " I was afraid he would say "Uthman, so I said, “Then you?” He said, "I am only an ordinary person.

In His(RA) own words Hazrat ALi(RA) has called himself an ordinary man. Indeed in my eyes He Comes After Uthman. Or With Uthman, But why do u shias take him as the only true companion??

I request all of my sunni and shia brothers to visit this web site and look for themselves the Proof of the greatness of the Sahabas.
http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/bukhari/057.sbt.html

Allah Hafiz

a11shah , you are doing a great job in finding the strange articles in the internet , those all things are illogical and baseless without any solid support , when you put these kind of articles without much solid references , inspite of being weak make our blood boil , I know there are lots of material about the shia religion made by shias as well as western scholars who have researched as the part of their research topics but let them be there . The resut will be announced on the day of judgement , may be you will not be here , I will not be here , they will speak out crap thing that comes in their mouth , and I tell you a thing they get more chance of talking crap than the sunnis in their majalis , Lets see who earns more sins till the day of judgement , Sunnis or Shias .

Inquilab;

You seem to be one on whom Allah (swt) Almighty has said in Sura Yasin "And we have put a blind on their eyes....."

OooooooooooH ! I am really scared. The good old sunni kid feels Shias are going to hell.

What about the article do you feel is senseless or illogical. They are derived from the Qur'an and YOUR AUTHENTIC sahihs.

Why don't you, for a change that is, come with some arguments to refute them. That is, if you can.

Don't just cry and say that Sunnis are the almighty. Those who talk mighty stand on the weakest foundations.

You are like most other sunni brothers. You cannot refute, so you blame. Your "we are holier than thou" attitude does not make you righteous.

Looking at these other posters suggests to me that I my talk is falling on dumb ears.

After all, a donkey is a donkey, no matter how well you train it to speak in french.

Your own sahihs have contradictions which should suggest to the sunni community that not all the hadiths are truthful. There are many concoctions that were made up during Muwayih which even your sunni molvis admit to but you blindly take all hadiths relating to the goodness of your so called sahabahs - you know, the ones that waged wars, ran from battles, and so on.

Proving the holiness of the sham sahabahs from your own Sahihs is of no value since you are praising your own which you expect the rest to believe.

Have you sunnis ever analyzed the chain of narrators to see if they were reliable or not.

Ofcourse not for in you pathetic beliefs, all so called companions were good. ANALYZE THE QURANIC VERSE IN MY MESSAGE ABOVE AND TELL ME WHAT ALLAH (SWT) IS SAYING.

NOT ALL SAHABAHS WERE TRUTHFUL. Examples are that of Khalid bin Waleed, Muwayah, etc.

How hard can this be.

May Allah (swt) give me patience.

Wa Salam.

a11shah , when will you end your childish behaviour , by just blabbering out whatever is coming in your mind and on what evidences and the logics you are blaming us . You always gives reference to the holy Quran , but munnai you don't know logic so you can never prove on the neutral gournds which even the blind can find out what is right and what is wrong , remember , we started in the blind belief in God .
You always give reference to the Holy Quran but is always unable to give proof to relate it with somebody .
Even if you find a verse with lots and lots of hard work to relate it with somebody . Somebody can find out 100 verse and relate it to you people , illogically .
Grow up man , if somebody is not declaraing you wrong , there is logic , the logic which does not 100% suits a group of the people of the same fiqa or the religion , When they find out all the dimensions all logic proving somebody wrong ,they will declare it .
Remember , I did not decalred shia ppl.wrong , on the day of judgement the rightuous will be announced .
And what i said was whoever blabbers the most without thinking , makes the most mistakes .
Remembe now if you want to talk to me again , write the full Quranic verses and then discuss it . Understand !!!!!

Inquilab;

You are one of those that has learnt the ways of your corrupted forefathers.

Would you like me to drill the Quranic ayats into your empty head ?

Which verse in my memo above don't you understand ?

The quranic ayats state clearly that of the campanions, there were hypocrits / munafiqs.

I do not need to pin point specific ayats towards certain of your sham campanions. am sure that you sunnis will find ways of covering up their faults. The fact that Allah (swt) states clearly that there were those that said to the prophet (pbuh) "we believe" yet schemed against the prophet (pbuh) is SUFFICIENT to prove that NOT ALL SAHABAHS WERE RIGHTEOUS. This is your fundamental beliefs regarding campanions - that ALL OF THEM WERE GOOD. Do you really believe that ? Wake up and smell the coffee after 1400 + years.

You need to learn to read the debate more carefully before opening your gab. You bluttering out useless comments does not help anyone.

And I do not care in the least what your opinions are regarding shias. They are probably the same as what your wahabi teachers have taught you. After all, besides falsely accusing the believers of the Ahl Bait were ungodly things, what other weapons do you have ? You run by lying - as you have done since the throne of Abu Baker, Muavyah, and the Abbasid kings.

Wa Salam.

"And they say: 'obedience'; but when
they leave thee, some of them spend the
night planning other than what they say
to you. Allah records what they plan by
night. Disregard them and put thy trust in
Allah. Allah is Sufficient Trustee." (ch.
4, v. 81)

Read the rest of the verses in my message above and see what the Almighty says. And you ahl-sunnat have the audacity to say ALL SAHABAHS were good.

You say the Qur'an is sufficient for you all. Yes, the Qur'an is complete and a source of infinite knowledge. But do you understand every subtle and deep meanings of the glorious Qur'an.

Who has taught you the Qur'an - your 4 imams - Shafaii, Maliki, Hanafi, and Hanbali ?

Who taught them ? Why are verdicts between them different ?

Was the prophet (pbuh) a Shafaii or Hanafi ?

These 4 did not appear on the scene until several years after the prophet's departure to his heavenly abode.

Did the prophet tell you to follow Hanafi and maliki or did he tell you:

"I leave behind two weighty things, the Qur'an and my Ahl Bait. Hold on to both of them tightly and they will lead you to the fountains of Kauser"

Does it mention anywhere of your 4 so called leaders ?

You drop the holy ahl-bait and follow crooks and you expect to earn the holy prophet's intercession on the day of judgement !

Oh wait a minute. You don't believe in anyone's intercession.

You will just ask Allah (swt) directly for salvation and by pass the prophet of Allah (swt), who was sent as a mercy to mankind from the Lord of the worlds.

Keep going and soon you will taste the fruits your deeds.

I ask Allah (swt) to guide you all and bring you to the correct path.

Wa Salam

"You will just ask Allah (swt) directly for salvation and by pass the prophet of Allah (swt), who was sent as a mercy to mankind from the Lord of the worlds."

Who do you pray to, Allah or Prophet Muhammed (PBUH)?

La-illaha ilalla, muhammed-dur-rassoolilah

Thats the main thing I believe in my friend.

Cool Dude ya'ar,

If you believe in Allah only then why in the kalima do you need the part about Muhammad(s):
"La-illaha ilalla, muhammed-dur-rassoolilah"

1) Is the kalima a shirk?
2) Does including Muhammed-dur-Rasulillah in the kalima make the prophet into a partner of Allah?

I was merely pointing A11shahs comment about bypassing the prophet and praying directly from allah.

From his statement:

"You will just ask Allah (swt) directly for salvation and by pass the prophet of Allah (swt), who was sent as a mercy to mankind from the Lord of the worlds."

La-illaha ilalla

I'm not totally sure if adding muhammed-dur-rasoolilah makes it shirk - I will have to research into this.

*[3:144]
144. Muhammad (SAW) is no more than a Messenger, and indeed (many) Messengers have passed away before him. If he dies or is killed, will you then turn back on your heels (as disbelievers)? And he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do to Allah, and Allah will give reward to those who are grateful. *

Cool

No, Yaar - adding the phrase "Muhammed is the prophet of Allah" does NOT make kalima into shirk.

I was merely pointing to our wholesale use of 'shirk' to label beliefs of others, in which case even our kalima can be labelled shirk.

a11shah , if you don't have anything logical to say its better to keep silent , you have given the verses which are referring to munafiqs , and I know munafiqs used to call them Muslims .
These verses don't specifically pioints to any specific person , and you shia people illogically clearly points fingers on some people that they are the munafiqs (so sad) ,When you people will start learn to prove logically , so you are putting a buhtan to some of the people , I say don't do haram acts in just trying to prove you are right .

[This message has been edited by Inquilab (edited August 15, 2000).]

Inquilab;

Stop your diversive tricks and answer the following:

From your own statements now, do you or do you not agree that there were munafiqs present amongst the so called companions ?

I am not pointing at any particular sham sahabahs that you have in mind BUT -

Based on the quranic ayats, do you still say that ALL sahabahs were good ?

Yes or NO.

As far as whether the munafiqs were Abu Baker, Umar, and the rest can be dealth with later.

Wa Salam

Oh and by the way Inquilab;

Rather than rutting about being logical - a famous sunni trick to divert attention from actual facts that are presented - why don't you tell us the audience what exactly isn't logical for you.

Don't cry for a change and substantiate your arguments.

Wa Salam again.

It is illogical for me to relate some of the verses of Quran to specific persons only when its is possible to be applicable ot different people since Quran is for till qayamat and there can be several thing to think over with one verse .
And don't blames sunnis for my comments , I am not asking anybody what to give as comment and the thing is I don't even share my gupshup activities with any one , so they are entirely my own comments , as a student of logic I know what is strong logic and what is weak logic .


The time will come !!!

BY the way this our belief is Quran is here till the hereafter maybe there are still munafiqs here and say they are Muslims but by heart but they have the religion of their own not exactly Islam

a11shah you say you don't relate Quranic verses yo any specific person but I can show you you do ,

Inquilab;
You seem to be one on whom Allah (swt) Almighty has said in Sura Yasin "And we have put a blind on their eyes....."

If you can relate Quranic verse to me you can relate any verse to anybody illogically .
You don't know me , you have never see me how do I live how can you relate q Quranic verse to me , that proves you have a habit of blabberring out everything that comes in your mouth without giving any thought , remember thats the mistake illogical people do .
Who are you to tell anybody to whom exactly the verses is referring .

I dont know the purpose behind all these discussions. I some sahabas were not righteous or not - then what? a11shah is been appointed by God or any other source to do justice right the on earth? After Prophet Muhammad everone has to reply to his/her acts in front of God. It does not matter to me what someone did more than 1400 yrs ago. I have Prophet to follow. If someone did or not follow that its that persons problem not mine.