North Indians vs. South Indians

North versus South

http://www.newindpress.com/sunday/sundayitems.asp?id=SEC20030919061038&eTitle=Columns&rLink=0

Jayanthi Natarajan

Interesting debate was recently aired on a popular TV channel, on whether North India was dragging down the development of South India. While intending no disrespect whatever to our brothers and sisters up north, I sincerely believe that this is a subject which merits free and frank discussion.

The debate on the differences between North and South India, was in my personal view, long overdue. This particular discussion, though incontrovertibly one sided, also highlighted some very important issues, which are rarely discussed in any meaningful way. Social scientists have long discussed the so called Bimaru states - a particular belt of states where social indices are painfully distorted and lopsided. The Southern states on the other hand got off to a very good start, and have steadily improved both their development as well as their social and economic parameters. Literacy levels are almost at one hundred percent, with the consequent improvement in the status of women, and other disadvantaged sections. Foreign investment and industrialisation are also high. All these issues were reflected in that debate, and several other important points.

However there is a political, social, and cultural divide which is not often talked about, and these are deeply felt concerns of large sections of the nation, which now need to be addressed dispassionately. What might have begun with language, has now metamorphed into an attitude of indifference and superiority on the one side, and docile apathy on the other, leading to avoidable discrimination, and a feeling of alienation.

It is difficult to be dispassionate about highly emotive issues like language and culture. This is something I can attest to in a very personal way, because as far back as 1967, my grandfather faced the brunt of the anti-Hindi agitation, as Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu. This was the first time that Tamil Nadu displayed to the nation in no uncertain terms, the passion and power that can be generated by controversy over language. It was nearly twenty years after this that I landed in Delhi as a Member of Parliament from Tamil Nadu, and immediately the enormity of the domination of Hindi hit me like a ton of bricks.

Ninety percent of the proceedings in Parliament are conducted in Hindi, other MPs speak in Hindi in Central Hall, most of the staff speak Hindi, all official documents come in Hindi as well as English, and obviously all the citizens we interact with, like shop keepers, bus drivers, or cabbies, speak only Hindi. Ministers are routinely told to answer questions in Hindi, and protests from non Hindi speakers are dismissed with a cavalier observation, that Hindi should rule, because “Hindi is the national language”.

All efforts to point out that Hindi is not the national language, but rather the official language, falls upon deaf ears, and the distinction between the two is never appreciated. There are always loud protests from South Indian MPs, when Hindi is sought to be thrust down our throats, but these usually turn out to be pyrrhic victories, because after the protest is said and done, the proceedings simply continue in Hindi.

We are told patronisingly that English is the language of our colonial masters and we should, if we so desired, speak in our mother tongue, or in Hindi, but should not fall prey to the “slave mentality of speaking English”. However, though many of us speak Hindi, I cannot think of a single colleague from the north of the Vindhyas who can speak Tamil. The recurrent pattern of this attitude is evident in virtually all the activities of Central Government. Huge amounts of money are spent in promoting Hindi, and even expensive foreign trips are undertaken by Parliamentary Committees, to study if Hindi is being properly developed in Indian embassies abroad!

I do not believe that any citizen of India who loves his language could possibly be hostile to any other Indian language. We are the world’s biggest and most diverse democracy. We are one billion people who have lived together for over half a century, forging brotherhood and harmony in the midst of all our diversity. Despite our natural spirit of harmony and tolerance, I found it profoundly depressing how languages other than Hindi are treated so shabbily by the Central Government, and lakhs of rupees are spent on reviving a language like Sanskrit, which has only been used in high literary circles.

Some fanatics claim that Hindi should be accorded primacy because it is spoken by a vast majority of Indians, but this is a claim which is demonstrably false. Less than 23 percent of Indians speak Hindi, and even in Northern India, the languages spoken range from Gujarati to Assamese, and Haryanvi, and Punjabi, none of which can possibly be classified as Hindi. In fact, even Devi Lal, when challenged to do so, could not speak in Hindi, but could only reply in his native Haryanvi. There can be no doubt that it would be wonderful to have one single national language that all Indians could speak, but this is something that has to evolve naturally.

This is by no means a tirade against Hindi, but a a heartfelt plea that the politics of language should never become a tool to dominate or discriminate against some parts of India, or be used to divert attention from the very real problems that now confront our country.

Unfortunately, the unthinking sense of superiority engendered in some on the basis of the language they speak, has turned into crude insensitive caricaturing of South Indians which is routinely done in Hindi films, and does not elicit the smallest protest from the Censor Board. Bollywood film makers appear to be oblivious of the fact that many learned South Indians are respected Hindi scholars, and the Hindi Prachar Sabha in Chennai is one of the most eminent institutions imparting the study of Hindi in the country.

Significantly, I have never seen a single Tamil, Telugu or Kannada film, where Hindi or Hindi speakers have been lampooned. But then, what can you expect of non political film makers, when so august a person as the Union Minister for Human Resource Development, flatly refused to even consider declaring Tamil as an official language, because “not enough persons spoke Tamil”?

Language is only part of the problem, just like the fact that the vibrant and burgeoning economic development of the South is being hampered by some lawless and indisciplined parts of North India. There are serious practical and political ramifications arising out of the underplaying of the role of South India, the ultimate irony being the fact that Parliament actually considered seriously a proposal to cut down the number of MPs representing Tamil Nadu (and other states) simply because this state had performed admirably in stabilising population. This proposal was dropped after howls of protest from the South, but still vividly illustrates how insensitive public policy can sometimes be.

After years in Parliament and in Delhi, I have come to the conclusion that it would be criminal negligence on our part to ignore this issue any longer. It is time politicians and vested interests understood that politicising the differences of language and region by projecting any one language as superior to all others, based on dubious data, is the surest way to destroy the country. And that in a country as diverse as India, there can never be any valid claim that any one language or culture is more important or superior to any other.

MM, you have convinced me. Down with Aryan supremacy. Let's choose a language that no one can pronounce, far less learn, and make it the national language, just so the hindi belchers can know how it feels -I vote for swahili!

too late MM- every body down south speaks hindi now.:)

Some grand plans for Bombay. Goddamn McKinsey..I hate to love you. :love:

‘Billions needed for Bombay’

By Jayshree Bajoria
BBC correspondent in Bombay

Transforming India’s financial capital, Bombay (Mumbai) into a world class city, requires investments worth $10bn, a new report says.

The state authorities are promising money for the city
International consulting firm McKinsey, which drew up the report, says the money needs to be invested over a period of 10 years.

The report comes amid growing fears among the city’s leading businessmen and policy makers that Bombay is gradually losing its prominence as India’s commercial hub.

Seen as a blueprint for the city’s growth, it says Bombay needs to take a giant leap forward in order to catch up with other financial cities like Dubai, Singapore and Shanghai.

Resources

McKinsey suggests that Bombay need not look elsewhere for financial help as the city has enough resources of its own.

It says the city must grow at the rate of 8 to 10% per year.

It suggested immediate steps to kick-start the transformation such as the beautification of key city roads and construction of new public toilets.

“More than 30% of the country’s income tax is collected from Mumbai. Therefore raising a billion dollars a year for the city is no challenge,” said Narinder K Nayar, who is the chairman of the private firm that commissioned the report, Bombay First.

The Chief Minister of Maharashtra state, of which Bombay is the capital, Sushil Kumar Shinde, has accepted most of the recommendations.

He has announced the appointment of a special secretary to oversee the implementation of these recommendations.

He also said the state would contribute 60 billion rupees ($1.3bn) towards the Mumbai Infrastructure Fund that will be set up to finance Bombay’s transformation into an international financial city.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by vivek: *

haha u mean actual physical fights? what dco ilaz and shuklaz mean?
[/QUOTE]

again what do they mean? thanks.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Aparna_Dogra: *

Chandbeti, tu marathi mulgi ka...
[/QUOTE]

Chaila! Mi marathi nahi, pan maharashtrian aahe/hote(ata ameriki).... to be specific Mumbaikar( :-p ). Marathi yete kaaran farse friends marathi hote.

Tu saang, marathi mulgi? Naavavarun watat naahi pan.

Translation:* Gosh! I am not marathi but I am/was(now in U.S) a Maharashtrian.. to be specific a Bombayite.
I can speak marathi coz I had many marathi friends.

What about u, are u marathi? Name suggests something else.*

^^
me marathi nahi, pan punyat rahaichi. ata daha varshani amreeket rahate mhanun marathi visarlay :bummer:

that’s all the marathi i can speak now :stuck_out_tongue:

Translation: i ain’t marashtrian, but i used to live in Pune. i’ve forgotten Marathi since i came to the US ten yrs ago

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *

Matebhai, here's a gujju joke to make you understand them fully -

a gujju goes into a sari shop and selects one, starts bargaining. Every time the shopkeeper agrees to the price the gujju goes lower. Finally the shopkeeper explodes, 'Take the damn thing for free and get out!'

'Give me 2', says the gujju calmly. :D:
[/QUOTE]

This happened

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Chandbeti: *

Chaila! Mi marathi nahi, pan maharashtrian aahe/hote(ata ameriki).... to be specific Mumbaikar( :-p ). Marathi yete kaaran farse friends marathi hote.

Tu saang, marathi mulgi? Naavavarun watat naahi pan.

Translation:* Gosh! I am not marathi but I am/was(now in U.S) a Maharashtrian.. to be specific a Bombayite.
I can speak marathi coz I had many marathi friends.

What about u, are u marathi? Name suggests something else.*
[/QUOTE]

aga ho!! mi Maharashtrian... but brought up in Karnataka, married to a Delhite, now in UK!!! Whew!! firti war aahe mi.. :D:D

:k: no worries… :slight_smile:

Aparna : Chhanach ki! Watla nhavta yethe (gs var) koni marathi bolnara/bolnari milel.

translation:Never thought I wud meet a marathi speaking person here on gs.

Phoenix: That was a good effort. :-p

^This is the reason why we need to hindinize you heathens.
:)

^

Any problem if we converse in marathi(only in this thread)? I am posting the translation too.

It is a joke Chandbeti. You can speak battatawada as much as you want. :)

i’m the other way around… kannada brought up in maharashtra
my kannada is just as tooti phooti :smack:
my cousin calls me “kai kutla khobri batla” every time i try to speak either language :smiley: :smiley:

chandbeti, i agree with u, mala hi nahi vatla ki koni marathi bolnaray milel GS varti :slight_smile:
ur marathi seems so shuddha! (pure)

The North-South Divide
By Vir Sanghvi

Two years ago, I got into a conversation with a
Chinese man I bumped into at a shop in Singapore. In
the manner of strangers everywhere who search for nice
things to say about each other, I complimented him on
the cleanliness and tourist-friendliness of Singapore.

And he, in turn, told me how much he loved Indian
cinema, even though he couldn't understand the
language. He was particularly impressed, he said, by
our movie superstar. Did I think that he would enter
politics? And how did one pronounce the superstar's
name, anyway?

The Amitabh Bachchan conversation (along with the
Bollywood lecture) is pretty much a staple of all
contacts between Indians and friendly foreigners. So I
was about to tell him how I didn't think that Amitabh
would ever join politics again when I noticed that my
new friend was struggling to pronounce the superstar's
name.

"Raj....Rudge.... Is it Rajni Kaanth?" he asked.

Rajnikant?

I was dumbfounded.

But no, the man meant Rajnikant. He had no real
knowledge of Bollywood at all. The only Indian films
he knew were made in Madras. And Rajnikant was the
only star he recognised.

At the time, I put it down to the high proportion of
Tamils among the Indian population of Singapore. Of
course, the man only knew South Indian cinema, I
thought to myself. That's because he lives in
Singapore.

But over the last year I've begun to wonder about how
much the reference points for people who look at India
from abroad are changing. In Japan, I was astonished
to discover that they too were crazy about Rajnikant.
The only Indian cinema that had a cult following was
South Indian cinema.

And it isn't just films. If you go to England and talk
to people about coming to India on holiday, they won't
want to see the Taj. They'll have no interest in the
palaces of Rajasthan. They'll talk about Goa. And if
they want a trendy holiday, they'll ask about Kerala.

In China, I discovered that while the Chinese - like
most East Asians - sneer at India and our
achievements, they suddenly become respectful when the
subject of information technology (IT) is raised. They
may have no respect for New Delhi. But they all admire
Bangalore.

Even the Bollywood craze that swept England last year
(Bombay Dreams, the Selfridges promotion etc.) had
very little to do with North India. Bollywood is
neither North nor South India (as Javed Akhtar says,
it is an Indian state in its own right), but Bombay
Dreams was based on the music of A.R. Rahman and most
of the tunes had first been featured in South Indian
movies.

I thought of all this on the plane to Bangalore last
week. I had been invited by Unmeelan, the cultural
club at Infosys, to moderate a discussion on the
North-South divide and I wondered if the balance had
now finally changed in the South's favour.

On a previous trip to Bangalore, the Chief Financial
Officer of Infosys had shown me an astonishing
statistic. If you look at the rate of growth of the
four Southern States - Tamil Nadu, Karnataka, Kerala
and Andhra - he said, and compare it to the rest of
Asia, you'll find that South India actually
outperforms most of the so-called South East Asian
tigers. The trouble with the same statistic for the
rest of India, he pointed out, was that the economic
sluggishness of North India dragged it down.

Clearly, he had a point. And at least some North
Indians are beginning to learn that lesson. Two weeks
ago, in Chandigarh, Amarinder Singh, the Chief
Minister of Punjab, told me that the role models for
North Indian Chief Ministers needed to be people like
S.M. Krishna and Chandrababu Naidu who had recognized
the importance of knowledge-based industries. Punjab,
he said, had lost out by focusing on agriculture for
far too long.

Amarinder has persuaded Dr Y.S. Rajan, the scientist
who is probably best-known as President Abdul Kalam's
pal, to shift to Chandigarh to make Punjabis more
techno-savvy. And Rajan, in turn, gave me another
figure: something like 80 per cent of all technical
institutes of learning in India, he said, are located
south of the Vindhyas.

At the Infosys discussion, many of the same issues
cropped up. The South Indians in the audience were
proud of their politicians (though this was perhaps,
less true of the Tamilians) and kept contrasting
Chandrababu and Krishna with Laloo Prasad and Mulayam
Singh Yadav.

It was the South that was showing the way, they said.
The North was still obsessed with caste, with
vote-bank politics and with cheap populism.

This theme was echoed by one of the participants in
the discussion, the brilliant historian and essayist
Ramchandra Guha, who said that politics exemplified
the difference: "Chandrababu says, 'if elected, I will
turn my state into another Singapore', but when a new
Chief Minister is elected in UP, all he says is 'I'll
build a Ram Temple'."

There was anger, too, at the manner in which Hindi has
been thrust on the South. Even Javed Akhtar, perhaps
the greatest scriptwriter Hindi cinema has ever seen,
said that English, not Hindi, should be India's link
language.

Overall, there was no doubt that when the South
Indians in the audience talked about North India, they
meant UP and Bihar, not, say, Punjab or Madhya
Pradesh. Nobody had anything bad to say about
Amarinder, Sheila Dixit or Digvijay Singh. Equally,
nobody had anything good to say about Mayawati,
Mulayam or Laloo.

This, in turn, led to questions that came up again and
again: when UP and Bihar send the largest number of
MPs to the Lok Sabha, what hope is there for Indian
politics? Won't there always be a disconnect between
the professionals who are taking India forward and
likes of Mayawati who are only interested in playing
the caste card? Wasn't it significant, somebody else
asked, that the Ayodhya movement had failed to
generate any excitement outside of the Hindi belt?

(This is not entirely accurate. Hindutva works well in
Gujarat).

I'm not sure that there are many good answers to these
questions. Over the last decade, I've observed a
growing disdain for electoral democracy among the
middle classes who complain that vote-bank politics
will always ensure that India is ruled by cow-belt
politicians who frame their appeals in terms of
religion or caste. Judging by the Bangalore
discussion, this disdain is felt even more strongly
in the South where they don't care about all the
issues that dominate national politics these days:
should there be a temple at Ayodhya? Can dalits get
along with an upper caste party in UP? Why should
Muslims be allowed four wives? Let's ban cow-slaughter
completely. None of this interests the South.

Of course, all the claims made about the South's
successful 'techies' are not always valid. As my
friend Chandan Mitra - another participant in the
discussion - pointed out, the North is not quite as
backward as the South likes to think it is. The second
biggest IT center in India after Bangalore is not
Hyderabad, but the National Capital Region. Small
North Indian states like Himachal have performed
remarkably well on many parameters. And despite
Javed's preference for English as a link language,
Hindi has penetrated the South.

Nor are the North and South two opposing monoliths. A
large proportion of the Infosys employees who took
part in the discussion were, themselves, North Indians
who had chosen to work in Bangalore. And even when the
women who disdained the North spoke, they did so in
salwar-kameezes.

But it is hard to shake the feeling that India has
changed in two very different ways over the last 15
years. On the one hand, the South has captured the
world's imagination and has had the sense and/or the
good fortune to focus on such areas as IT where India
has the potential to be a global leader.

On the other hand, the North seems sometimes to have
lost the plot. After the end of the Rajiv Gandhi
government, North Indian politics seems to be less and
less about the things that matter and more and more
about caste coalitions, about redressing historical
wrongs, about disputes over medieval mosques, about
the perceived threat from Pakistan and about ensuring
that politicians get as rich as they can as quickly
as possible. The twin legacies of Mandal and mandir
have ensured the seemingly permanent backwardness of
the North.

Sadly, it is a divide that grows with each passing
day. And at this rate, the South will soon leave the
North far behind.

I wish I was a south Indian!

OMG, does this mean that one day the south indians will start to wage a holy war for independence from the backward north?

South Indians have mustache North Indians don't.

South Indians point to your watch and ask you how much you paid for it, and North Indians dont.

Oh wait, I take that back..

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *
OMG, does this mean that one day the south indians will start to wage a holy war for independence from the backward north?
[/QUOTE]

What! Then who'll protect our borders? We absolutely need the Northies to survive.