Non muslims dont go to heaven?

[yazdi]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

SAlam Yazdi,

Firstly get ready to read a complete post and please read my previous post coz you havents answered anything from what i posted.

Again you have you own assumptions and I feel personally without knowing anything dont try to throw tantrums on anyone. I have made it very simple and I have provided you with references leave alone the Hadith for sometime now.

Next brother in my initial post i quoted the verses you havent answered instead started your own mullahism. I have seen your other thread and discussion with USR buth it was inconclusive you were stuck to your point and i feel you were still lacking to put across your point to USR.

I have got references from the Quran, please avoid appeasing the ones who dont believe n th Quran. Firstly

1) You havent read my earlier post for sure because what you have mentioned is similar to mine this just shows you ignorance, seems like you are out here to stirr the hornets nest. 2) Before even trying to make someone else understand your concept be patient, this is very much missing in your words. 3) You get me authentic proff from Ibn Kathir, tafsir, Ibn Tabari if you have any that non-muslims will go to Jannah.

Now let me answer back to your own assuming barbie world tantrusm

1) Principels of Quran without the sunnah yes for us tafsir and history of Quran is necessary i do that. I have book of Jalaludding ibn as suyuti which exactly is got a verse and the time it was revealed and the reaon for its revelation, so your assumption no. 2) Your thing about mullah i have already mentioned its your ignorance coz you havent read my post. 3) Brother certain missions of Sahaba was time limited i agree. But brother just cool down and think

Are these verses time specific and believe me you talk with evidence with proof dont send me any link i want you to explaina with proof from teh Quran, let me quote Verses of Allaah, not your verses, not verses of Mullah, not my verses, not verses of Prophet, not verses of ssahaha

I want you to go through each and every verse below and explain it to me, coz let it be the word of God not yours or mine.

Firstly let me quote the verses of the Quran, i tend to use the translation which best befits me.

002.004 * **PICKTHAL:* And who believe in that which is revealed unto thee (Muhammad) and that which was revealed before thee, and are certain of the Hereafter. 002.005 * **YUSUFALI:* They are on (true) guidance, from their Lord, and it is these who will prosper. 002.006 * **SHAKIR:* Surely those who disbelieve, it being alike to them whether you warn them, or do not warn them, will not believe. 002.007 * **SHAKIR:* Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing and there is a covering over their eyes, and there is a great punishment for them.

003.019 * **SHAKIR:* Surely the (true) religion with Allah is Islam, and those to whom the Book had been given did not show opposition but after knowledge had come to them, out of envy among themselves; and whoever disbelieves in the communications of Allah then surely Allah is quick in reckoning. 003.031 * **PICKTHAL:* Say, (O Muhammad, to mankind): If ye love Allah, follow me; Allah will love you and forgive you your sins. Allah is Forgiving, Merciful. 003.085YUSUFALI: If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter He will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good). 004.048 * **SHAKIR:* Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin. 004.116 * **SHAKIR:* Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and He forgives what is besides this to whom He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he indeed strays off into a remote error. These verses or the ones which i love the most the difference between the believer and the disbeliever 035.019 * **SHAKIR:* And the blind and the seeing are not alike 035.020 * **SHAKIR:* Nor the darkness and the light, 035.021 * **SHAKIR:* Nor the shade and the heat, 035.022 * **SHAKIR:* Neither are the living and the dead alike. Surely Allah makes whom He pleases hear, and you cannot make those hear who are m the graves. 035.023 * **SHAKIR:* You are naught but a warner.

I can take you further now refute my verses with your own mullahism.

I challenge you get it from the Quran and I am waiting for it.

I have read your post four times now and perhaps I have to admit I fail to understand it. Although I can make out from your tone that you are angry but why I am unable to understand. If somebody else has understood why my brother is so angry please try to explain the same to me in simple language.

You talk about Quran and suddenly start talkin about Ibn-Khatir and tafseer Al Tabari and sound as if these books are as sacred as Quran

You sound as if you belive in these books more than Quran. It is these tafseers who have createed this abrogation concepts and created monsters like Bin Laden...

I am not asking you to start shirk.

All I am asking you is not to start judging people. What Allah considers shirk is may be not what you understand. I think by judging people on who is doing shirk and who is not and by doing Allah task yourself may be you are doing shirk. May be you think you can perform the same task as Allah, I think may be that's shirk. May be declaring who is virtues and who is evil may be you are comitting shirk. Leave this judgement business for God's sake to Allah and that's not shirk...

[yazdi]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Dude, I cant see where in my post it says that I do Allah SWT a favour by covering up (na oozobillah!!!!!!). He doesn't need my prayers, I NEED to pray to Him.

Of course I serve myself by doing such things, and I do so by following (or trying to) that which Allah SWT has ordained in the Quran and following what the Prophet SAW examplified.

No one can take Allah's matters in our hands, but He has ordered us to implement the message He has sent in His book.... and u call that "taking matters into our own hands"

With regard to the fatwa, did the "mullah" not back thier opinion on ayats from the Quran?

May Allah help us All!

Wassalam

Please read again my post:

"STOP JUDGING PEOPLE BY TAKING ALLAH'S MATTERS IN YOUR OWN HANDS"

How do you intend to implement Allah's matters of judgement. Will you kill in the same way two women were killed the other day in Swat, because Allah has ordered you to implement His judgement....

I'll wait PATIENTLY for your enlightment on the subject as my brother slaveofallah accuses me of not having any patience....

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

I have read your post four times now and perhaps I have to admit I fail to understand it. Although I can make out from your tone that you are angry but why I am unable to understand. If somebody else has understood why my brother is so angry please try to explain the same to me in simple language.

You talk about Quran and suddenly start talkin about Ibn-Khatir and tafseer Al Tabari and sound as if these books are as sacred as Quran

You sound as if you belive in these books more than Quran. It is these tafseers who have createed this abrogation concepts and created monsters like Bin Laden...

I am not asking you to start shirk.

All I am asking you is not to start judging people. What Allah considers shirk is may be not what you understand. I think by judging people on who is doing shirk and who is not and by doing Allah task yourself may be you are doing shirk. May be you think you can perform the same task as Allah, I think may be that's shirk. May be declaring who is virtues and who is evil may be you are comitting shirk. Leave this judgement business for God's sake to Allah and that's not shirk...

Salam Yazdi,

I dont have to get angry, as I stated earlier you have read my post upto 4 times infact you forgot your own post in the meantime. Secondly bin laden aapke bade bhai lagte hain you talking so confidently about him and his version of Islam as if you met him personally and he is your close relative.
I have told you earliers its not your words or my words but word of Allaah.

Well brother its better you analyze the Quran completely.

Please try to understand the Quran from the Principles of Sunnah from Ilumalnazool

Those were your words exactly, my brother thats why i had to get Ibn kathir and Tabari into picture one place you talk about Quran other placy you talk about Sunnah now who is confused.

Secondly, in my first post in this thread i mentioned i want you to argue wrt only the Quran and until now i havent got any verse from you, i expect you to do it.

Firstly did i ever talk about Ibn kathir and ibn Tabari wrt and compared it to Quran, it you who claimed understand it with the time of revelation, **specific times to the sahabas, **so i had to make you understand you are not only one learned here i also do my studies.

Now i am asking you please tell me from teh Quran what will happen to the ones who have associated partners with God, and if you say that answer is not there in the Quran you have some problems.

I really appreciate you have read my post upto 4 times, but i have even requested in the mpost please refute the verses in the Quran i am n ot here to win a war against you, i simply asked you prove the Quran wrong, dont prove me wrong those are not my words.

Now i am challenging you and the words of Allaah, sounds agression go ahead prove your prowess. I dont need any knowledge from mullah i can do it on my own.

Regarding abrogation, thats an other topic please ready the post below (i.e. if you have time) when once someone commented that Quran can be abrogated by Mutawatir hadeeth this was my response, and please dont take me into the concept of naskh.

[QUOTE]
To all of them here, i am not talkign about the people who believe that Hadith can supercede the Quran.

Well, people laud themselves by saying i have read this and that, they should understand everyone is not a fool around here and when some comments are passed, they say i read this and i dont do like others again a key of blind following.

I am sorry i lack time as of now but try to put in few insights.
1) We know Quran can abrogate the Quran but not hadith, no where in the Quran its mentioned that mutawatir hadith can supercede the Quran because if its was given Allaah would have surely spoken about it in the Quran.

That Hakim the wisdome which the scholars usually implies for the Prophetic tradition can supercede the word of Allaah.
You see people are looking other way round prove me the verse in the Quran but not the other way round, someone who is intelligent can understand what i have stated.

2) For hadith to qualify it has to be authentic and not contradict with the Quran, again not the other way round someone who feel hadith can abrogate the Quran then his is gravely mistaken and should be lashed accordingly.

3) Now let me take you through the verses in the Holy quran which be a slam dunk to all this theory of mutawatir hadith superceding the Quran.

002.078 *
**SHAKIR:* And there are among them illiterates who know not the Book but only lies, and they do but conjecture.
002.079 *
**SHAKIR:* Woe, then, to those who write the book with their hands and then say: This is from Allah, so that they may take for it a small price; therefore woe to them for what their hands have written and woe to them for what they earn.

To understand word illetrate here is a big issue if any one is interested let him/her pm me. The above verses where revealed for the Jews if you can read the verses above and below it. But i find striking resemblance to the people who are supporting such futile claim of hadith superceding the Quran.

If you observe the bold part it clearly says write the book and claim this is from Allaah, now check the similarity a mutawatir hadith can superseded the Quran that is the word of Allaah, please contemplate.

Now the next verse

004.082 *
**SHAKIR:* Do they not then meditate on the Quran? And if it were from any other than Allah, they would have found in it many a discrepancy.

No doubt about it check it out that means to say Quran naozbillaah had a discrepancy in it and hence a hadith was supposed to supercede the Quran claiming that Allaah had deficiency and even the Prophet who did not say in explicit words that *Quran can abrogate the hadith. *

The guy who is arguing here, hasnt brought this hadith to me till date but look at the ignorance level instead of asking he says show me a Quranic ayat claiming mutawatir hadith can supercede the Quran, you claim and kindly read my first point for your rebutall and stop copy pasting for heavens sake, dont be blind folded.

NOw this verse will slam dunk the entire theory claimed by great jurists, let Allaah have mercy on them they can commit mistakes but this is a complete slam dunk

005.003 *
**SHAKIR:*
This day have those who disbelieve despaired of your religion, so fear them not, and fear Me. This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion; but whoever is compelled by hunger, not inclining willfully to sin, then surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Now what does that verse mean, the eg of Muadh ibn Jabal read it and see it. It says if not present in the quran then sunnah of the Prophet not the other way round you are just ignorant and spreading some nuisance here regarding the Quran believe me wallaahi billaahi this is a claim which should be thrown to a dust bin and you are supporting it.

Tell me are we foolish just because we dont find Prayering action in the Quran we follow the sunnah otherwise, why would we be doing it if present in the Quran. We pray coz its mentioned in the Quran.

Now ponder over the verse **5:3 **Islam is complete, complete to claim any mutawatir hadith claims that Islam is incomplete, why i am stating this is because a hadith can supercede the Quran so that implies the word of Allaah was incomplete stating that Allaah naozbillaah is a liar.

Well, ponder over it brothers and sisters because these claims eat up this great religion from Inside.

Now let me quote this famous hadith of the Propohet in arabic then translate it in english. This was most often repeated by Proophet before the Jumaah prayer.

Wa khairal hadisi kitabu Allaah, wa khairal hadi hadii Muhammad salah Allaahyi wa sallam, wa sharal omoori mo da sa tuha, was kullu mohdasatin bidah, wa kullu bidatin dalala wa kullu dalalatin fin naar.

The best of discourse is the book of Allaah, and the best way is the way of Prophet Mohammed,worst matters in the religion are those new introduced, for every innovation in the religion is misguidance, and every misguidance is going astray and ever astray will lead you to hell fire.

Even the Prophet claimed the best discourse, guidance is book of Allaah and this hadith worshippers claim that book of Allaah can be superceded by a Mutawatir Hadith.

[/QUOTE]

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

I am not asking you to start shirk.

All I am asking you is not to start judging people. What Allah considers shirk is may be not what you understand. I think by judging people on who is doing shirk and who is not and by doing Allah task yourself may be you are doing shirk. May be you think you can perform the same task as Allah, I think may be that's shirk. May be declaring who is virtues and who is evil may be you are comitting shirk. Leave this judgement business for God's sake to Allah and that's not shirk...

Peace Yazdi,

I have two questions to you

1) Is quoting from Quran considered as taking matters of Allaah in our hands.
2) Is quoting verses from the Quran and trying to define shirk is itself shirking.

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

..

[chintu_bhopali]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

who is coming to HELL with me????

[SlaveofAllaah]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

^Take me along with you,

[yazdi]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Peace Yazdi,

I have two questions to you

1) Is quoting from Quran considered as taking matters of Allaah in our hands. 2) Is quoting verses from the Quran and trying to define shirk is itself shirking.

PEACE SLAVEOFALLAH

1) Quoting from Quran doesn't mean you are taking matters in your hands. These verses are to guide you and me on the matters of shirk. Allah (sws) also defines the minimum tolerance level He will have in the hereafter. What is His maximum tolerance level we don't know.

2) Acting according to these verses by refraining from shirk is the right way of looking at the verses. If you start judging people on these basis may be will come under shirk, simply because you are doing Allah's task.....

Meray Mohatram Bhai,

If companions of Rasul took matters in to their hands, and started judging people for their belief it was time specific and with a special mission. In today's world we can not judge anybody for his belief, nor do we know how Allah will judge people in the hereafter. May be in the end He will pardon the whole humanity. So only Allah knows......

[Light_Bearer]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

who is coming to HELL with me????

^Take me along with you,

Count me in. Khoob guzray gi jo mil baithein gay diwanay teen.

[AQ]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

I like to be alone on the other side of the border :)

[queer]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

also, will santa claus bring me a flying carpet this christmas?

[infiniti]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Salaam bhai,

with utmost respect....

Please do not read quran without the knowledge of ilmulnazool and without agreeing to the principles of sunnah. If you do the same you will find there are many contradictions in quran. One ayah will tell you north and other will tell you south. You will become much more confused. Mullah will tell you to stop using your brain altogether and follow a simple rule, abrogate the earlier verse and act on the later one. You will end up becoming Osama bin Laden II....

The companions of the prophet acted for a certain mission which was time specific. Please read my opening post in the thread of mullahism vs real isalm. I hate repeating over and over again. If you do not agree with any point I invite you in that thread to show me my error.

Only if there were more like you, there will be more muslims in the world than there are today. Many would have converted to Islam, but anyways what's the need to convert if you can be good without a religion.

[infiniti]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Count me in. Khoob guzray gi jo mil baithein gay diwanay teen.

Aap, mai aur Bagpiper :)

[chintu_bhopali]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Count me in. Khoob guzray gi jo mil baithein gay diwanay teen.

90% of kudiyan milegi hell main...i am soo excited.

[Seminole]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

SHAKIR: Surely Allah does not forgive that anything should be associated with Him, and forgives what is besides that to whomsoever He pleases; and whoever associates anything with Allah, he devises indeed a great sin. *004.116 *

Wouldn't be ironic if all the Muslims who are following the popular version of Islam today fall in this category? If God intended man to follow his commands, but by putting hadith, sunnah and the prophet on par with his words is indeed associating things with him that weren't in his plan, his book? After all, the way Islam (and ALL religions) is practiced was determined by men.

I mean if 80% of the world is going to hell, what's another 20%?

[AQ]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Wouldn't be ironic if all the Muslims who are following the popular version of Islam today fall in this category? If God intended man to follow his commands, but by putting hadith, sunnah and the prophet on par with his words is indeed associating things with him that weren't in his plan, his book? After all, the way Islam (and ALL religions) is practiced was determined by men.

I mean if 80% of the world is going to hell, what's another 20%?

How do Muslims Associate Prophet (SAW) in Worship - supplicating infront of him and hoping that He is God (or son of God for that matter)?

[Seminole]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Worship is the reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage. It doesn't have to include supplication to qualify as worship.

If God's intentions were to follow only his words and the practice of the religion actually puts as much emphassis on following the words of someone else then IMO that borders putting someone else on par with God.

[Sharaabi]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

Worship is the reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage. It doesn't have to include supplication to qualify as worship.

Once again we have a kafir here, trying to explain Muslims what worshipping means.

We do not need your Merriam Webster definition of "worship". The Islamic term is 'Ibadah' and its way more than just mere worshipping. It means to be totally subjugated.

[ramyssysIX]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

In Quran, God :swt: Himself asks the humanity to obey Him and His prophet :saw:. That’s why we follow in the sunnah of the prophet :saw:. That’s why the sahaaba followed Hazrat Muhamamad’s :saw: teachings, which were in fact he teachings of Allah :swt:.

@Seminole

Worship is the reverent honor and homage paid to God or a sacred personage. It doesn’t have to include supplication to qualify as worship.

If God’s intentions were to follow only his words and the practice of the religion actually puts as much emphassis on following the words of someone else then IMO that borders putting someone else on par with God.

[ramyssysIX]

Re: Non muslims dont go to heaven?

According to the Ilmul Nazool, this verse refers to people in their respective eras. For example, it refers to jews as they were following Hazrat Musa :as:, in the time of Hazrat Musa :as: and before Hazrat Isa :as:.

@yazdi

2:62
Those who believe (in the Qur’an), and those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Christians and the Sabeans,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness, shall have their reward with their Lord; on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.

ONLY ALLAH KNOWS…

DON’T TAKE THE TASK OF JUDGEMENT IN YOUR OWN HANDS…