Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Extremely Screwed up order
Pregnancy > 
where is he?
and Extremely-Extremely Screwed up order
Pregnancy > who’s is he?
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
It annoys me so much when people don’t get that concept. This girl I used to know had nikkah with this guy but they weren’t allowed to talk or meet with each other. I asked her mom why they couldn’t meet and she said because they weren’t married 
I said a nikkah is a marriage license, and she just laughed and said they aren’t considered married until they have the rukhsati.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
where and who should be followed by .. how, when and What (the heck)
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
That raises another problem: Nikka before Nikkah or Nikkah before Nikka 
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
I remember when we got married...umm...right after our nikaah, the Imam told us that in the eyes of ALlah we are husband and wife and we can be "together" if you know what I mean :O. He said that it is up to you to set a rukhsati date etc..but in the eyes of Allah it does not matter if we went making babies right away...so I think rukhsati is a family-imposed thingie just to buy some time incase the husband needs to "sponsor" his wife internationally, or if she's completing her studies or something of that sort, and in the meantime the parents don't think it's alright for them to conssumate their marriage just yet.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Nikkah is MARRIAGE. Get it straight, peeps.
You don't say..
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Completely agree. This was the case with me. As far as myself and my family were concerned, our nikkah = marriage. But as far as his parents were concerned, especially his mother, it was no more than an engagement (she even introduced me as his fiance after the nikkah). Those few weeks post the nikkah where I stayed in there house were very *weird. When I came back, people kept asking when the Rukhsati is. * Nikkah in Islam is very simple, you don't even need an Imam to perform it.** Even Walima isn't a farz; it's good that people do this sunnah but it's not in the same vein as it was intended. In fact, Islamically, if there is a gathering taking place after the nikkah, this constitutes a walima. People have constructed all this other stuff for god knows what reason. Like so what if you have the nikkah and don't start living together?? Why should that mean you still have to be strangers with one another?
I think that's what bothers me -- unnecessarily complicating what is supposed to be simple and significant.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Completely agree. This was the case with me. As far as myself and my family were concerned, our nikkah = marriage. But as far as his parents were concerned, especially his mother, it was no more than an engagement (she even introduced me as his fiance after the nikkah). Those few weeks post the nikkah where I stayed in there house were *very *weird. When I came back, people kept asking when the Rukhsati is.
Nikkah in Islam is very simple, you don't even need an Imam to perform it. Even Walima isn't a farz; it's good that people do this sunnah but it's not in the same vein as it was intended. In fact, Islamically, if there is a gathering taking place after the nikkah, this constitutes a walima. People have constructed all this other stuff for god knows what reason. Like so what if you have the nikkah and don't start living together?? Why should that mean you still have to be strangers with one another?
walima is faraz, a gathering by the groom to celebrate his nikkah with his friends.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
I remember when we got married...umm...right after our nikaah, the Imam told us that in the eyes of ALlah we are husband and wife and we can be "together" if you know what I mean :O. He said that it is up to you to set a rukhsati date etc..but in the eyes of Allah it does not matter if we went making babies right away...so I think rukhsati is a family-imposed thingie just to buy some time incase the husband needs to "sponsor" his wife internationally, or if she's completing her studies or something of that sort, and in the meantime the parents don't think it's alright for them to conssumate their marriage just yet.
Its more of a social thing that girls are not allowed to see their husbands in private after nikah just in case they engage in 'unlawful' activities. Log kia kahain ge, abhi rukhsati nahi hoi thi etc etc. And because of this thinking, nikah is not considered a full fledged marriage in our society since it does NOT give husband and wife 'rights' to live together (although these rights are given to them by our religion).
So its just the complex khichri of religion and culture in which we desis are stuck.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
yes sir!
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
There is already so much confusion in our lives regarding nikah and marriage, and you guys are trying your level best to make it more complex by doing milawat of western practices 
We need to make our elders aware of our ‘rights’ after the nikah ;). They all be after us and say: ‘tauba tauba aj kal ki nasal kitna bigar gai hai’ 
I think we have to follow our society’s norms (especially if they are not against Islam). Islam also teaches us to follow what our society expects from us if it remains within the limits of our religion. If anyone has any problem with the restrictions put on them after nikah, they should go for nikah + rukhsati.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
walima is faraz, a gathering by the groom to celebrate his nikkah with his friends.
Sorry but it's not farz, it's a highly recommended sunnah as the nikkah should be announced as widely as possible. And it's certainly not for the groom to celebrate 'with his friends'. A cursory search will confirm this.
Sayyiduna Abu Huraira (Allah be pleased with him) states: “The worst food is that of a wedding banquet (walima) to which only the rich are invited whilst the poor are not invited. And he who refuses an invitation (to a banquet) disobeys Allah and His Messenger (Allah bless him & give him peace).” (Sahih al-Bukhari, no. 4882)
Alhamdulillah, my father and brother are pretty well versed in fiqh and these are pretty straightforward matters.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Its more of a social thing that girls are not allowed to see their husbands in private after nikah just in case they engage in 'unlawful' activities. Log kia kahain ge, abhi rukhsati nahi hoi thi etc etc. And because of this thinking, nikah is not considered a full fledged marriage in our society since it does NOT give husband and wife 'rights' to live together (although these rights are given to them by our religion).
So its just the complex khichri of religion and culture in which we desis are stuck.
Pakistan should not call or consider itself a muslim country then. Simple.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
walima is faraz, a gathering by the groom to celebrate his nikkah with his friends.
walima is sunnat, not farz
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Yes there is. Mangetar might not have any special "privileges" according to some people, but it does not mean that the term and definition does not exist.
The problem with the above attitude is that people start treating the nikkah as an engagement period, and it is not one. It is not to be taken lightly. It is marriage -- not a test run.
Can a marriage turn into mut'ah?
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
I personally dont think life can ever strictly be dictated by religion. Culture and tradition are just as important. And Pakistan is fortunate to be defined by all three. Families and ceremonies are extremely important for Pakistanis… Theres a ceremony for every occasion in life …
So I dont see the big deal or debate in having a ceremony for an official ‘biddaee’ of the bride from her house. I think its sweet and traditional. If you’ve waited for your “Rights” for so many years …whats a few more weeks or months?!
*Inspirational Laddu ~ *www.inspirationalladdu.wordpress.com](http://www.inspirationalladdu.wordpress.com)
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
^ I disagree. Culture and religion is not equally impt.
The difference between culture and religion is this:
Culture is just all the hoopla you do because your parents did it, and your ancestors did it, and the people around you do it. No other reason. And that's not important all. all most all aspects of culture is pointless. wedding cakes, rukhsatis, wearing red on wedding, etc. Neither is cultures something that's static.. it changes with time, and some are down right outrageous and dangerous (ie. burning widows, etc). Many of the traditions are just in my opinion a waste of money...mayoon, mehndi,hundered dhokis etc and only serves to show off how much wealth you have.
Sure i'll probably be guilty of participating and hosting these myself, but ill be the first to admit, that if I and we did away with these wasteful, pointless traditions, it would be money better spent elsewhere, and for more meaningful things.
Religion is something you believe with all your heart! Such as in an Almighty God, and that you live to please him and nobody else. And that is why for many Muslims, Quran and hadithes dictate their lives, just as how a constitution dictates how a government is run.
And it is more then clear from Islam, that following ancestors blindly is not encouraged at all (ie. culture), and neither is wasteful spending , and showing off (think big week long weddings with every aspect of culture- 1000 dholkis, mehndi mayoo ruksati and whaterver else). Neither is making what is halaal by Allah swt Haraam (which is what this thread is discussing).
The humble life is the best life. The simple wedding is the best wedding. and if you think abt it,at the end of the day you're only getting married --something that 99% of people manage to do, you didn't win the Nobel prize to deserve a huge commotion that ppl make it out to be these days .
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
There’s nothing traditional about separating the nikkah and ruksati. It was and should be done together.
Also, it’s not about telling the bride and groom to wait (tho no one has the right to tell them that, as they are husband and wife now). Because most couples will wait; they understand the cultural expectations. The problem is that Pakistani culture is often dominated by the “What will people say?” issue. And so, this girl and boy – husband and wife – are traipsing around together (even if they aren’t having sex), not engaging in anything haram, but people will TALK (or the parents fear they will), and then the parents restrict them even more because any religious barrier has been overcome. I’ve seen this happen. Parents uncomfortable with the couple sitting together at social gatherings and stuff like that, feeling the need to chaperone them at all times. It is complicating a very significant but straight-forward relationship. And rarely is there legitimate cause.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
Culture should never take precedence over religion. It is pretty clear from Islam that marriage should not be delayed. Allowing nikkah and then preventing a couple from being husband and wife in the way they choose fit, whether they choose to live together or not straight away, is against Islam.
I would take Sahar's point one step further and say that there is no requirement for rukhsati at all. Just nikkah and then it is up to the couple to decide in private what they do. It's really no one's business. Why do we need to announce to the world that we are allowing this couple to engage in a sexual relationship by advocating the rukhsati? They have been given this right by nikkah. As for the ridiculous argument that the couple may not be ready to start a family, so the girl shouldn't be rukhsat until then... well, plenty of couples take measures in the first years of their marriage to prevent pregnancy anyway.
Re: Nikkah is MARRIAGE
^ I guess I never saw the ruksati as a separate event. You come to the shadi hall, you have you're nikkah. You leave together. That's your ruksati.