Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
^ You do major sin by writing in gold and damaging my eyes. 
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
I know there is a strong rumor that circulates in ignorant desi teenagers that if the marriage is not consummated before valima, the valima is haraam. I can safely bet it is started by some very horny guy.
And here is the link](http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=91172) to explain the whole thing. Its a bit longish talking about the importance of valima, but does address the fact there is nothing in Islam which says that the marriage has to be consummated before valima.
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
Well it doesn’t have to consumated before walima, but isn’t it preferred that the sooner the better?
p.s. itney saal banda control karta rahta hai, jab shaadi hoti hai tou phir aik doosrey par toot parey nahi tou aur kia karey 
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
the nikah is the real deal - you are married - you are 'halal' for eachother. The rukhsati is just a cultural thing. The husband does have to give a certain amount of "mahar" before consummating the marriage. He has the option of giving the mahar in full or giving a part of it and deferring the rest. From my understanding part of the mahar needs to paid before consummating the marriage.
I have also heard of stories like the one Faisal bhai told of a woman getting pregnant while nikah-fied. Only in Pak would it be considered a "sin" or an "embarrasement" - another example of how culture takes over religion.
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
ok ok ok, i have another one then. As you mentioned, I also used to hear and believe that mehar is something that you give before the wedding night (before you consummate the marriage) UNTIL someone told me that it has to be given when you divorce that girl 
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Mehar (wedding gift) is a totally different discussion. It has to do with what both parties (the bride and the groom) agree in the marriage contract.
It can be either
- all due upfront,
- part due upfront and part delayed or whole delayed
- some part upfront and remaining due on demand (by the bride) or whole due on demand.
Recommended is to keep it commiserate with the financial position of the groom, and pay it as soon as possible. Keeping it too low (Rs 32.50) or unrealistically high (many times the income/wealth of the groom) is not appropriate.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
*Shikra * inshAllah x 3 I will keep in mind the questions being asked here. even i am getting frustrated with all this talk.
** I just hope that we dont get judgmental at the things people say here, bec each one of us is getting a different set of wording & understanding when such subjects are discussed. inshAllah we will be given the proper guidance. SO PLS BE PATIENT!!! **
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
enagagement is cultural but in our society it serves this purpose that spose the girl doesnt "go out on dates" waghera or doesn't meet na-mehram guys for social purposes, her parents can get her engaged to the guy, she can still get to know him a bit before they are married, talk on internet or sometimes meet him socially but interacton is within limits, and only IF she finds something very objectionable about him or vice versa then either side can back out.
so in some ways no harm done. [according to what some ppl think, not what i think tho]
plus some people get their children engaged when they r kids. like some person can give his daughter to his sister's son etc unofficially, thats also kinda an engagement.
nikah is the actual marriage. this is it.
then there is the Islamic ruling abt consummation of marriage and mahar.
many people look at the rukhsati as the main thing and the nikah one step below it.
my personal opinion is: if u intend to marry someone, do the nikah straight away and then rukhsati right after else dont do anything at all.
i dont believe in egagements neither do i believe in waiting for the rukhsati. whats the point of doing someting half-way? you either want to get married to someone or you dont, once you have made the niyat of marrying someone then whats all this middle indecisive ground of "engaged", "getting to know" and all that? just do the nikah and then the rukhsati right after. these "waiting periods" are pointless. marriage is after all a serious thing not some kind of frivolous non serious thing.
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
if a husband has only paid part of the mehar at the time he wants to get a divorce from his wife, he must pay her the rest.
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
I just read the post script… Shikra bhai jaan… tau ye saari kahani “toot parney” ke justification hai? 
Anyway, K.I.S.S. (no pun). Do your nikah and rukhsati at the same time and then “toot paro”. Ya Allah Kher! 
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
By the way, the only real purpose of engagement is to stop other people from sending proposals for the girl, while the girl and the guy gauge each other. Thats basically it.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
yes... its just to say that both parties agree to getting married.
i think people have just ballooned it up to be much more, with parties etc.
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
Faisal bhai, hmmm I don’t think so b/c I mean, if a girl gets three different proposals one after the other, will she get engaged three different times?
Engagement is done when both parties are PRETTY SURE, in fact in most cases 100% sure.
That she does not entertain other proposals while she has got one doesn’t require that she get engaged. Her walis who are handling her proposal scene or she herself can refuse or put on hold another proposal if she is considering one already.
The level of interaction that is needed to gauge someone is allowed in Islam without getting engaged to a person from what I understand.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Hain....? I said the purpose of engagement is stop other people from sending proposals for the girl. So if a girl is already engaged you don't take your bhai or betay ka rishta for her anymore. Thats the whole point of engagement ... "STOP!". Haan, before a girl is engaged, you can send as many proposals as you want.
Generally people do engagement only after they are fairly sure the guy is the right one. Many times engagement is closely followed by marriage, and khissa khatam. Generally long engagements have a higher risk. Too many of them break because of communication issues. You are not living with each other and still trying to act as if you will. So it should be carefully managed. Although to be fair, after engagement, generally the guy and the girl should be provided opportunity to understand each others' views and seriously re-evaluate whether the marriage will work. Its better to break off an engagement if you find out there are just too many incompatibilities rather then ruining both lives by going through the marriage just because you are already engaged.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Faisal bhai you used the word "gauge" is lyay I said that. Coz when you're engaged, you're not gauging anymore, you've decided.
But its not a nikah.
So its not 100%.
Which I find weird.
Coz in this matter I believe its either 0 or 100. There is no middle area here.
This is why I don't believe in engagement AT all. And there's no Islamic concept of it either. I don't know WHERE we got it from but it sounds totally lame to me. Nikah which should be immdiately followed by Rukhsati OR nothing at all is what I think is the right way to go about marriage.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Engagement is a good buffer, cz it takes time to prepare for a wedding. You can't just do everything over-night. Well, u can, kinda, if you go for civil marriage, but then why pay a sore-faced government clerk, when you can invite all your friends and family and make merry for weeks.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Faisal bhai I see your point but I don't think engagement is necessary for the reason I explained above. I mean, if two people are engaged, what are they? Husband and Wife? No. Then what are they? Why bring two peolpe so close, but not legalise the whole relationship Islamically? It just sounds sketchy to me.
And when engagements break, don't you think it creates a mess for the people involved and leaves them with emotional baggage?
Basic thing is: Islamically there is no concept of engagement.
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
Hmmm waise the preparation bit...you do have a good point there considering desi weddings these days and how there is this craze to book the perfect wedding hall and get the perfect wedding dress designed and so on.
All that does take time.
And then sometimes when the girl has to go abroad then visa issues.
In that case: Do the Nikah and then do the rukhsati after three months to six months MAX MAX MAX.
Khair, if two people realise the seriousness of it and the give it their solid commitment then no harm as such in engagement either, but you're right it shouldn't drag TOO long!
Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…
Actually, if you think about it, there is. By the way, after engagement, they are not husband and wife… they are called with cute french names..fiance and fiancee. Plus breaking up engagement is far less work than breaking a nikah. So, its all relative. Alright, now that we have taken care of important matters, lets talk about why engagement is good.
Ahem…
You would agree that Islam does not encourage free mixing of genders. What it does encourage is that before marriage the girl and the guy should be given opportunities to see each other and talk to each other to ensure that they are compatible with each other. With chaperone, ofcourse. The one condition is that both of them should be serious about getting married and not just use this to flirt around with miscellaneous partners. So, how do you satisfy the condition of seriousness? Voila! Comes in engagement. Once you are engaged, you have shown your seriousness to get married, and then you should be able to talk and see each other. Daikha, kitna faida hai engagement ka? 
Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...
ps. to my last post: waise kuch logon kee TOO long engagements bhee i have seen do work....it really depends on mindset of the individuals involved, family involvement and expectation etc, and ofcourse kismat :) so i guess there is no HARD AND FAST rule here