...Nikah vs. Engagement...

[PyariCgudia]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

What a headache of a thread. I’m really surprised that many of you don’t know what a nikkah is. Its a marriage contract. Which means - after signing a nikkah nama you are married. Which means living together, going out to the movies, and reproducing are all OKAY. Its all halaal because you’re now bound to the person.

Furthermore this whole rukhsati concept totally goes against the Islamic nikkah concept - Islamically, once you get a nikkah done, you gotta consummate the marriage within a certain time span (its like 3 or 6 or something months), otherwise, the nikkah is considered invalid.

So I dont know what maulvis in Pakistan are smoking these days. Allow porn (oh excuse me, Meera) to be shown in cinemas, deny young couples (or old) of their damn rightful privacy because of meddling parents and rishtidaar who have no business in the matters of husband and wife, and yet oh astaghfirullah Hindus are scum and must be beaten with rocks and OBL is an angel!

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

p.s. Faisal - your friend's sharaarti friends were absolutely not sharaarti at all. I'm glad that kid knocked up his woman before the rukhsati. If I were that girl, I'd proudly tell everyone that I'm pregnant halaal-style. Let them stick that up their (&(&(&*.

[Verizon]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

Dont forget my favorite peeve "The AHmadi Bashing"

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

as-salamualikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
with “engagement” it is meant that both families are agreeing and promising one another to enter into the contract of marriage (nikah), this doesn not mean that the boy and girl are free to meet one another or talk to one another, and neither is a “engagement” ceremony necessary as this would then be an innovation as it is no of the sunnah,with a nikah the couple are considered legally married and can avail of the benefits that a valid marriage provides and are obviously considered husband and wife…i recently had my nikah a few months ago, not moved in with my husband yet! alhamdolillah its great because i can get to know him a bit better and as someone said to me the nikah before rukhsati is " the fun part"

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

as-salamualikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh
with “engagement” it is meant that both families are agreeing and promising one another to enter into the contract of marriage (nikah), this doesn not mean that the boy and girl are free to meet one another or talk to one another,

Bull crap. Where does it say that a girl and a guy can't get to know one another as two human beings, as friends, as acquaintances. Just because you converse iwth them does not mean you're screwing them.

*and neither is a "engagement" ceremony necessary as this would then be an innovation as it is no of the sunnah,with a nikah the couple are considered legally married and can avail of the benefits that a valid marriage provides and are obviously considered husband and wife...i recently had my nikah a few months ago, not moved in with my husband yet! alhamdolillah its great because i can get to know him a bit better and as someone said to me the nikah before rukhsati is " the fun part" *

You just contradicted yourself. So, after doing a nikkah, you can totally move in with him. Why have you not?

I'd look up the legalities on the issue if I were you, I'm pretty sure that after a certain number of months, if you haven't consummated the marriage (i.e. SEX), then you're not longer married Islamically.

This rukhsati thing after marriage - its so bogus. If Pakistanis want to date, then they should just date dammit. Covering it up by this "islamic" veil is just doing the same thing - in fact, its worse, because the concept of a nikkah is being exploited.

[Shikra]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

Devoted2Allah Wa Alaikum Us-salam Wa Rahmatullahe Wabarakaatuhu

PCG I know what Nikkah is but I just find the rukhsati junk nonsense. For once you and I agree on something

Yeah, that’s what I was wondering about that isn’t there a certain amount of time by which you must consumate the marriage, or else nikah becomes invalid and both parties are free to move on and marry someone else. So as I doubted, this rukhsati thing is inherited from Indian norms (as our everything is) and Islamically, it’s incorrect and it doesn’t make any sense. Parents in those cases are wrong but molvis still support them JUST BECAUSE they are parents?

If you don’t wanna move in, don’t get the freaking nikah done But if you HAVE married (nikah), then move in dammit and have sex like bunnies (well, maybe not like bunnies, but consumate the marriage). I THINK it’s makrooh to marry and then not consumate the marriage? Yeah we can get into consumating the marriage but using protection issues because the point of sex is to procreate and bla bla bla, but we would rather not and keep it simple.

Ofcourse exceptions do apply, in the case of visa work etc.

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

everyones situation is different, im having my rukhsati this summer inshAllah.....im in my final year at uni and i didnt want to move in with him till after i graduate....theres nothing to say its not allowed obviously if you've had your nikkah you can move in with your hubby it depends on your situation and how you feel,

secondly, you can get to know the guy...but obviously if you're a practising muslim than you have a third person there to act as your wali...because a non-mahram male and female are not allowed to be alone together,il get you references from quran hadith if you are interested...

thirdly, like i said once your husband and wife you can avail the benefits of marriage.....this concept that people have that o if you are married and not consummated the marriage within a specifc period of time is nonsense, it is not stated anywhere in quranic ayah or ahadith....if you havent consummated the marriage it does not affect the legal validity of marriage in anyway...this is what i know from a sound scholar not something i have heard.

the concept of nikah is n ot being exploited..if you accept a marriage proposal is not better to perfom the nikkah and stay away from haram then just do an engagement and be sinning with your fiance and destroying the barakah for your marriage.

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

Taken from www.sunnipath.com, a sound website!

Can you explain the concepts of rukhsati? is it Islamic or is it just a tradition? Secondly, my husband and I just had a Nikkah ceremony (no rukhsati or walima) last year and straight after it I had to come back to UK to continue with my degree at university, and we haven’t met since then. Does this annul our marriage?
Answered by Shaykh Ilyas Patel (Qurba Institute, UK)

Can you explain the concepts of rukhsati? is it Islamic or is it just a tradition? Secondly, my husband and I just had a Nikkah ceremony (no rukhsati or walima) last year and straight after it I had to come back to UK to continue with my degree at university, and we haven’t met since then. Does this annul our marriage?

In the name of Allah, the inspirer of truth

It is mentioned in Rad al-Muhtar ala Dur al-Mukhtar as follows:

Is Zifaf (taking the bride in solemn procession to her new home) disliked? The preferred opinion is that it is not disliked, as mentioned in Fath al-Qadir taking the evidence of it from the the hadith which is narrated in Tirmidhi and that which Bukhari has narrated also from Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) that she said, we took a bride to a man from the Ansar (Helpers)…

(Allama Ibn Abidin, Rad al Muhtar ala Dur al-Mukhtar pg 9 Vol.3)

Mawlana Abd al-Shakur says:

Nikah preferably should be performed on any Friday of the year. It is wrong to believe that a specific day or month is ill-fated and ill-omened, as there is no basis of this in the Shariah.

(Mawlana Abd al-Shakur, Ilm al-Fiqh Part 8 pg 18)

Imam Ahmad Ridha Khan replied to the following question:

Issue 90: Question: Is it forbidden to get married in the month of Safar and Muharram, if so, why?

Answer: Getting married in any month is not forbidden.

Allah Alone knows best

(Mufti Ahmad Ridha Khan, Fatawa Ridhwiyya pg 265 V.11)

And Allah alone knows best

Ilyas.

[Shikra]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

@Devoted2Allah

everyones situation is different, im having my rukhsati this summer inshAllah…im in my final year at uni and i didnt want to move in with him till after i graduate…theres nothing to say its not allowed obviously if you’ve had your nikkah you can move in with your hubby it depends on your situation and how you feel,

Well my question is: Why could you not wait til summer to get married so you can move in? Woh kahin bhaagey thori jaa rahey they. If you couldn’t move in for whatever reason, why couldn’t you wait til summer instead of having nikkah done and now he’s in his house and you are in your?

If you answer me oh well, I wanted to get to know him, then my question would be this: Let’s suppose that you got your nikah and got to know him. What if you didn’t like him? Would you have gone ahead and broken the nikah just because you got to know him and now you don’t like him?

p.s. My hindu friend’s name is Mayank Patel.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

How would you be sinning with your fiance if you're just engaged??

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

Oh you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

What you have posted simply says that the concept of rukhsati - that is taking the bride to your home - is OK. It says nothing about in how much time you need to consummate the marriage. These are two separate issues. I'm not saying Rukhsati itself is unIslamic - I'm saying DELAYING the rukhsati is unislamic...

Well, whatever, good luck to the two of you - but ask around for more information just in case - relying on one website is really not good enough, especially if you're not understanding the information on it.

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

@Shikra

Well my question is: Why could you not wait til summer to get married so you can move in? Woh kahin bhaagey thori jaa rahey they. If you couldn’t move in for whatever reason, why couldn’t you wait til summer instead of having nikkah done and now he’s in his house and you are in your?

If you answer me oh well, I wanted to get to know him, then my question would be this: Let’s suppose that you got your nikah and got to know him. What if you didn’t like him? Would you have gone ahead and broken the nikah just because you got to know him and now you don’t like him?

our beloved Prohpet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said it is better to perform the nikkah once you have accepted a proposal than to wait…

i am just following the sunnah…i wouldnt break the nikkah because i was happy with the proposal before id made dua and isthikharah and then accepted it.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

Right, he said that. And by the DEFINITION of a nikkah, you are married to the guy and need to consummate the marriage. I've opened up a thread in religion forum on this because I know someone put up information from some hadith or Quranic verse regarding this issue. Maybe I'm imagining things, but that is what I remember.

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

@PyariCgudia

Oh you have GOT TO BE KIDDING ME.

What you have posted simply says that the concept of rukhsati - that is taking the bride to your home - is OK. It says nothing about in how much time you need to consummate the marriage. These are two separate issues. I’m not saying Rukhsati itself is unIslamic - I’m saying DELAYING the rukhsati is unislamic…

Well, whatever, good luck to the two of you - but ask around for more information just in case - relying on one website is really not good enough, especially if you’re not understanding the information on it.

that post was nothing to do with cunsummation it was for the rukhsati thing…ive asked around ( scohlars and alimas not our tradionalist elders who follow the hindu culture) and believe me it is nonesense about the specific time period of consummation im not so silly as to rely on one website. i

[Shikra]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

Source

Ok. This is funny.

If a man has completed the marriage contract (‘aqd nikaah) with a woman according to Islamic law, everything is permissible for him, he may look at her, be alone with her, enjoy physical contact with her, and so on, but his wife is not obliged to obey him and he is not obliged to spend on her until she submits herself to him

From what I understand, it says they can have physical contact but the wife can refuse to have sex with him? I thought they were legal

See, it’s the parents. This is also funny.

Although it is permissible for the couple to enjoy physical contact after the nikaah is completed – even before the waleemah – they should respect their parents’ wishes and pay attention to their concerns. The husband should also understand their concerns and should remain content with family visits until things settle down, i.e., after the waleemah.

[PyariCgudia]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

Shikra I totally agree with you here - where do parents come into the picture?? A couple needs to "respect their parents' wishes"???? "remain content with family visits until things settle down i.e. after walima"???

Is this from that silly website?

[No.X]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

Rotflmao.

[Devoted2Allah]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

@PyariCgudia

Shikra I totally agree with you here - where do parents come into the picture?? A couple needs to “respect their parents’ wishes”??? “remain content with family visits until things settle down i.e. after walima”???

Is this from that silly website?

please dont call it a silly website, ok if you dont agree thats fine but dont brand it as so. they are a great group of learned scholars one of them who has travelled from i think Uk/Usa to learn deeni ilm and become a scholar.

[Shikra]

Re: …Nikah vs. Engagement…

No matter what website you go to, what court you go to, they’ll ALWAYS support parents.

If parents are right, OFCOURSE they’ll supoort them, duh!
If parents are wrong, they’ll STILL support them JUST BECAUSE they are your parents. They wouldn’t encourage you to politely tell your parents that they are wrong, this is the right way, but instead they’ll advise you to keep quiet?

I’ll change the way our generation thinks when I have my kids It’s from Islam-Q&A website.

Devoted2Allah You ignore my patel part

[Let_Uz_Chat]

Re: ...Nikah vs. Engagement...

after nikah is performed marriage is in place, basically you r husband and wife end of subject. de uncalled for acts that is mayun, mehndi, mangani, rukhsati, barat etc r all culturally influenced and not required basically but kaun samjaey laugo kau.

islamically speaking nikah and valima zindabad.