^ I said if they aren't allowed to wear western dress, learn english, go out and work etc. If u'd read my post properly u'd see I hadn't automatically assumed they'd been forced to wear just desi clothes.
The problem I have with is the idiot boys who sleep around in this country and then get mummy and daddy to find them a nice pure virgin from 'back home' to marry. It's sick and the fact that the parents don't even seem bothered about the hypocrisy and their lack of respect for women makes it worse.
Oh, and u didn't answer my point about whether it's only the girls who are 'American Born Confused Desis?'
Well, there is nothing wrong with wanting to have children from marriage.
Girls should obviously be allowed to go out and I think good husbands do take their wives out for dinners/travelling. Though not in a million years I would support girls to going out to "chill" out with some guy friends in a disco or party
Yeah obviously, they need to learn english what kinda prople stop that!!!
So if a desi girl in west is wearing desi clothes, you automatically assume its been enforced on her ? Some girls DON'T LIKE to wear western clothes as a choice.
You have some serious issues with desi girls coming from Pakistan.
Of course not, 99% of people want children. But what do you say about the husbands and husband's mother's who don't care what the wife has to offer other than sons and lots of them!
I don't personally know any husband that supports his wife going out with male friends. Any mixed socialising they do is together.
Anyway I think Deeba was referring to not being allowed to go out full stop - to drop the kids to school or to do the shopping... basically anything that gives them any freedom. Knowing how to drive would be out of the question.
You need to come to the UK and experience life in some of the 'poorer' desi areas. Did you know that Pakistanis are one of the largest underachieving minorities in the UK? Amongst the issues you will see that a proportion Pakistanis born and bought up in the UK can barely speak or read English; they don't believe in the need for education. So what do you think these sorts of families will expect from any husband/wife that's coming from Pakistan?
You will also see it's common for guys to have arranged marriages from 'back home'; these girls stay at home and do their duties as wife/mother/DIL while the husband continues having his 'fun' outside.
The issue is not with desi girls coming from Pakistan, the issue is what intention they are bought over with.
Anyway, in recent years, I only know of one wife that has come from Pakistan. Most of the marriages have consisted of UK wife with Pakistani husband. Raises interesting questions.
Snowy_winter....
I didnt want to comment on d issues like this as they do not ever lead to a result.... but if u dont mind me asking ....I have some questions for u...I hope i m no mixing something but i just cannot understand u ...always u post something I try to understand that everyone has her own views ...other ppl try to argue with u and at the end they get frustrated because u r so rigid and now many things r not making sense.... so sister can u plz clear the following points from your many threads ....
1) According to u daughters should not be sent away for studies not even in hostels (ur point of view ,fine) so parents should rent home near her university where she got admission( father's job or business ignored, agree no prb) then u said in other thread that son should b able to have balance with parents n wife children etc so he can buy house near his parents because wife has a right to have her own home( agree) so now the son is a father too...how can he be near his daughter's university and his parents home...or should husband and wife live seperately one here one there in same country.... suppose they have two daughter with 3,4 years of age diff (very common) so they will be living seperately for not less then good 8 years ...??? sooo how can u manage this .....
2) Then u said that son can be sent away to be rough n tough no matter if he is young ( cannot remember exactly may be u said 16 ) ...but guys also need good upbringing...they also make mistakes or get robbed or killed (Allah forbid) so y do u think that ? parents who send their guys to be rough those r the ones who rape the gals while gals r crossing the road (as u said)
3) then u r taking the side of the person in one thread who wants doctor /engineer as a wife but if the gal want the person with degree u r making arguments againt her.... (u mentioned it many times ) here wat u need to understand is Guys r the one who have to provide their family so everyone ask about their qualification but on the other hand gals dont have to earn as a necessity so their specific doctor n engineer degree r not required.... u seem very traditional and talk about the way things r coming sibncve centuries so y objecting this.??? if the same guy have said i want educated gal it would be ok ...
4) I m living in pakistan..... I strongly agree that the gals living abroad r not all the same if u think some of them r not like pakistanis(acc tou better) then some of them r better then us( just trying to make u understand) and vice versa.
5) No one here refer to women as baby making machines except u.... ok those r not ur words but u mentioned it atleast twice.... stop degrading the wonderful place of mother .... no one think of women like that ...here i disagree ???
now at the end I post this with all due respect.... nothing personal everything hypothetical...waiting for ur responce ... take care
Of course not, 99% of people want children. But what do you say about the husbands and husband's mother's who don't care what the wife has to offer other than sons and lots of them!
I don't personally know any husband that supports his wife going out with male friends. Any mixed socialising they do is together.
Anyway I think Deeba was referring to not being allowed to go out full stop - to drop the kids to school or to do the shopping... basically anything that gives them any freedom. Knowing how to drive would be out of the question.
You need to come to the UK and experience life in some of the 'poorer' desi areas. Did you know that Pakistanis are one of the largest underachieving minorities in the UK? Amongst the issues you will see that a proportion Pakistanis born and bought up in the UK can barely speak or read English; they don't believe in the need for education. So what do you think these sorts of families will expect from any husband/wife that's coming from Pakistan?
You will also see it's common for guys to have arranged marriages from 'back home'; these girls stay at home and do their duties as wife/mother/DIL while the husband continues having his 'fun' outside.
The issue is not with desi girls coming from Pakistan, the issue is what intention they are bought over with.
Anyway, in recent years, I only know of one wife that has come from Pakistan. Most of the marriages have consisted of UK wife with Pakistani husband. Raises interesting questions.
Yes, I did mean the girls not being allowed to go out at all or only in a very limited way such as only with MIL or husband with her, not allowed to work or go to college or uni. Places like Oldham and Dewsbury a lot of the girls who are brought over from Pakistan have a really tough time, can't learn english or go out and work or socialise much, they're left indoors most of the time with the inlaws while hubby can stay out till 2 in the morning with his mates (or white gf), basically doing whatever the heck he likes. And yes, we are underachievers, a lot of ppl in our Pak communities like to pretend it's just down to racism but if that was the case Indians wouldn't be doing so well, would they. Wish ppl would confront the facts instead of burying their heads in the sand..
Yes, I did mean the girls not being allowed to go out at all or only in a very limited way such as only with MIL or husband with her, not allowed to work or go to college or uni. Places like Oldham and Dewsbury a lot of the girls who are brought over from Pakistan have a really tough time, can't learn english or go out and work or socialise much, they're left indoors most of the time with the inlaws while hubby can stay out till 2 in the morning with his mates (or white gf), basically doing whatever the heck he likes. And yes, we are underachievers, a lot of ppl in our Pak communities like to pretend it's just down to racism but if that was the case Indians wouldn't be doing so well, would they. Wish ppl would confront the facts instead of burying their heads in the sand..
So you can understand when I say that there are no good guys in england.
Snowy_winter....
I didnt want to comment on d issues like this as they do not ever lead to a result.... but if u dont mind me asking ....I have some questions for u...I hope i m no mixing something but i just cannot understand u ...always u post something I try to understand that everyone has her own views ...other ppl try to argue with u and at the end they get frustrated because u r so rigid and now many things r not making sense.... so sister can u plz clear the following points from your many threads ....
1) According to u daughters should not be sent away for studies not even in hostels (ur point of view ,fine) so parents should rent home near her university where she got admission( father's job or business ignored, agree no prb) then u said in other thread that son should b able to have balance with parents n wife children etc so he can buy house near his parents because wife has a right to have her own home( agree) so now the son is a father too...how can he be near his daughter's university and his parents home...or should husband and wife live seperately one here one there in same country.... suppose they have two daughter with 3,4 years of age diff (very common) so they will be living seperately for not less then good 8 years ...??? sooo how can u manage this .....
2) Then u said that son can be sent away to be rough n tough no matter if he is young ( cannot remember exactly may be u said 16 ) ...but guys also need good upbringing...they also make mistakes or get robbed or killed (Allah forbid) so y do u think that ? parents who send their guys to be rough those r the ones who rape the gals while gals r crossing the road (as u said)
3) then u r taking the side of the person in one thread who wants doctor /engineer as a wife but if the gal want the person with degree u r making arguments againt her.... (u mentioned it many times ) here wat u need to understand is Guys r the one who have to provide their family so everyone ask about their qualification but on the other hand gals dont have to earn as a necessity so their specific doctor n engineer degree r not required.... u seem very traditional and talk about the way things r coming sibncve centuries so y objecting this.??? if the same guy have said i want educated gal it would be ok ...
4) I m living in pakistan..... I strongly agree that the gals living abroad r not all the same if u think some of them r not like pakistanis(acc tou better) then some of them r better then us( just trying to make u understand) and vice versa.
5) No one here refer to women as baby making machines except u.... ok those r not ur words but u mentioned it atleast twice.... stop degrading the wonderful place of mother .... no one think of women like that ...here i disagree ???
now at the end I post this with all due respect.... nothing personal everything hypothetical...waiting for ur responce ... take care
I am a guy (damn the nick!). First of all, thanks for a great and interesting debate. I'll try to answer your questions:
I don't recall saying that daughters should never be sent away for studies. I don't have a big problem with females living in decent female hostels. A wife has a right to a separate house. At the same time, it is the responsibility of the guy to take care of his parents. In that context I was suggesting that it would be a nice idea for the guy to live just besides his parents house so that he can fulfill both goals: a separate house for his wife, proximity to his parents. But its just a suggestion... lots of other solutions can work as well.
Eww..... I have never said anything about *ape. Thats disgusting. Being rough and tough does NOT mean that they have to be jerks.
I just said that just like a girl CAN demand that her husband be with XYZ degree/job, so can a guy demand. Its about equality. And I absoutely agree with you that its the guy's responsibility to put food on the table in the house and its his responsiblity to take care of all the finances. If a girl wants to help, great but she is not bound to help. Personally though I consider home-making and decent upbringing of children a bigger contribution.
Totally Agree !!
I saw these words in another thread by one of the guppans. I think a mother is the best thing that can happen to anyone.
u r a guy haha …now everything make sense …
yeah I had to debate coz u r turning every question to either desi non desi behas or women issue… yeah in ur clarification u r talking about options but in other posts u sound like u have this belief n it is true no matter wat other person is saying…
Of course not, 99% of people want children. But what do you say about the husbands and husband's mother's who don't care what the wife has to offer other than sons and lots of them!
I don't personally know any husband that supports his wife going out with male friends. Any mixed socialising they do is together.
Anyway I think Deeba was referring to not being allowed to go out full stop - to drop the kids to school or to do the shopping... basically anything that gives them any freedom. Knowing how to drive would be out of the question.
You need to come to the UK and experience life in some of the 'poorer' desi areas. Did you know that Pakistanis are one of the largest underachieving minorities in the UK? Amongst the issues you will see that a proportion Pakistanis born and bought up in the UK can barely speak or read English; they don't believe in the need for education. So what do you think these sorts of families will expect from any husband/wife that's coming from Pakistan?
You will also see it's common for guys to have arranged marriages from 'back home'; these girls stay at home and do their duties as wife/mother/DIL while the husband continues having his 'fun' outside.
The issue is not with desi girls coming from Pakistan, the issue is what intention they are bought over with.
Anyway, in recent years, I only know of one wife that has come from Pakistan. Most of the marriages have consisted of UK wife with Pakistani husband. Raises interesting questions.
Ok, now I see your point. And yes its bad to see double standards.
The Quran says to something like ..bad women for bad men and bad men for bad women and pakeezah men for pakeezah women and pakeezah women for pakeezah men...]
Ok, now I see your point. And yes its bad to see double standards.
The Quran says to something like ..bad women for bad men and bad men for bad women and pakeezah men for pakeezah women and pakeezah women for pakeezah men...]
^ becuz they know what bad girls are like ... and they are good to mingle with ... but not good enough to be wives ...
even a bad girl wouldnt want a bad husband ... nobody wants a bad spouse ...
^ becuz they know what bad girls are like ... and they are good to mingle with ... but not good enough to be wives ...
even a bad girl wouldnt want a bad husband ... nobody wants a bad spouse ...
But a non-desi non-virgin man would be ok with marrying another non-virgin. It seems to be a Muslim desi (or possibly just a general desi thing) that a man who has slept around can demand a virgin wife and is ok to not want to marry any of those he slept with. Even Arab men will often marry those non-Muslim women who they've commited zina with (I know of quite a few white girls who've ended up marrying Arab Muslims and even converted to Islam later) whilst usually a desi man will think they are sl*gs and not worth marrying.
But a non-desi non-virgin man would be ok with marrying another non-virgin. It seems to be a Muslim desi (or possibly just a general desi thing) that a man who has slept around can demand a virgin wife and is ok to not want to marry any of those he slept with. Even Arab men will often marry those non-Muslim women who they've commited zina with (I know of quite a few white girls who've ended up marrying Arab Muslims and even converted to Islam later) whilst usually a desi man will think they are sl*gs and not worth marrying.
I know this girl ,she did private BA and usually stayed at home… she use to come over to our hostel(friend of my roommate) her mom usually leave her there for few hours n as soon as her mom go home, she used to date a boy … now the cousin of my room mate came from UK and end up marrying that girl n after wedding he was making fun of my room mate that the gals who live in hostels and study in universities have lot of affairs… but I m very lucky that I found such a pious n religious parda daar wife… ur posts reminds me that
Snowy_winter....
I didnt want to comment on d issues like this as they do not ever lead to a result.... but if u dont mind me asking ....I have some questions for u...I hope i m no mixing something but i just cannot understand u ...always u post something I try to understand that everyone has her own views ...other ppl try to argue with u and at the end they get frustrated because u r so rigid and now many things r not making sense.... so sister can u plz clear the following points from your many threads ....
1) According to u daughters should not be sent away for studies not even in hostels (ur point of view ,fine) so parents should rent home near her university where she got admission( father's job or business ignored, agree no prb) then u said in other thread that son should b able to have balance with parents n wife children etc so he can buy house near his parents because wife has a right to have her own home( agree) so now the son is a father too...how can he be near his daughter's university and his parents home...or should husband and wife live seperately one here one there in same country.... suppose they have two daughter with 3,4 years of age diff (very common) so they will be living seperately for not less then good 8 years ...??? sooo how can u manage this .....
2) Then u said that son can be sent away to be rough n tough no matter if he is young ( cannot remember exactly may be u said 16 ) ...but guys also need good upbringing...they also make mistakes or get robbed or killed (Allah forbid) so y do u think that ? parents who send their guys to be rough those r the ones who rape the gals while gals r crossing the road (as u said)
I have a feeling you got snowy_winter confused with "Snowdrops"
I have been looking in my home town in england. I wont say where it is lest I end up revealing my identity. But believe me,...it is a dump in terms of suitable matches.
Most of the guys who get degrees and good jobs end up getting girls from pakistan because they all think the girls here are too indecisive or have a 'history'. The mothers of these guys don't want an 'independent, career-minded' woman. They want someone who will sit in front of the chula making rotis all day.
Even when girls want to marry someone over here, they can't! unless ofcourse they meet someone and its a mutual thing or they go back home and find someone.
i think if ur serious u need to widen ur search from just ur home town...i know if i looked in my hometown i would not find someone...maybe 2 or 3 potentials but then u need to click with them so id say certainly worth looking around further...if u have relatives over england tell them to keep an eye out...
and i do agree with the fact that guys from here seem content with girls from there and even prefer them...and i also agree girls can only really marry someone from here if they fall in love or whatever..
the other day my aunty was talking about family friends of ours whos son has been given the freedom to find whoever he wants from england but he simply cant and my aunty said very easily oh well y dont they get a seedi saadi girl from pak...i mean that is the mind set we are in now...eve if the guy is a doctor lawyer etc they are ok with marrying any 'seedi saadi' girl from the village
p.s i dont mean to generalise all ppl into one group but this is what i feel the majority are doing
I don't think anyone should be sidetracking the main problem and discussing other issues here (or maybe you can in a different thread)- let's help out the girl who needs advice here.
Stardust, you have to think of what's best for YOU before anything else. The last thing you want is for your life to be sad and miserable, and for problems to occur between you and your future husband. Do istikhara, it's the best solution.
I don't think anyone should be sidetracking the main problem and discussing other issues here (or maybe you can in a different thread)- let's help out the girl who needs advice here.
Stardust, you have to think of what's best for YOU before anything else. The last thing you want is for your life to be sad and miserable, and for problems to occur between you and your future husband. Do istikhara, it's the best solution.
thanks Pareezay
My mum did an Istikharah and she saw a lot of greenery and open fields. Apparently that is a good sign so it's all about being patient now :) Allah (SWT) knows best.
I have decided to take a backseat and take each day as it comes instead of fretting about the future.
haha …now everything make sense …