Need help to save my engagement :(

[Niksik]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

First be clear in your mind about whether you even like him, and if you like him enough to become his wife and cheerleader. As long as he is pursuing a worthwhile and ethical career, it doesn't matter how many struggles he is having. Don't focus on where he's coming from but where he is going. If your gut tells you like him and he likes you, support him.

Another thing, regarding his concerns about you working in Pakistan, they may come from real life situations we often hear about. Maybe he doesn't know how women are perceived at the workplace. Don't argue with him, try to communicate your views and see where he's coming from.

[snowy_winter]

[quote="farrah, post:783, topic:205891"]

@ arshad5: since humans are more sophisticated and more complicated creatures than the rest, and not replicas of each other ... it wont be a problem ... because everyone is different ... and the meaning of "best for you" becomes relative then ...

p.s. yes snowy winter has a sick brain!/QUOTE]

Lolz.... yeah, I saw that coming and in a way you are justified, I was kinda pissed off at desi women working in the west as labelling and considering housewives as someone inferior. To clarify:

1. I didn't mean to generalize and apologies if I hurt someone. Ofcourse, there are lots of working women who work hard even in Pakistan and keep their modesty and their distance from men. By "enlightened women" I meant only a subclass of women who consider housewives to be of an inferior race.

2. I have seen the environment of the some software houses in pakistan and unfortunately the clothes and the flirting manner of some of the girls is quite sickening. Not to mention that its actually the man who encourage such things so yes, the blame lies on them equally if not more.

3. I think everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, if you don't agree then please back your argument with some logical reasons instead of calling me sick. To back my argument for example, I invite you to visit a couple of software houses in Pakistan, or visit the Liberty market in the evening and you'll understand the "power" and "independance" of women.

4. As long as the girl takes good care of her husband and children, she can work as Bill Gates, I don't mind. But I doubt many women can juggle so many balls simultaneously. IMHO calling me sick does not really solve the problem of leaving your kids to naukars.

[Stardust09]

if you only want to save it cuz u dont wana be single any more than its really not a valid reasoning.

i dont see any connection between u guys. he is also doesn't seem any interested in you, because if is than lying is not hard for the lawyers.

ps. there are more ppl living in pakistan than in Canada and UK.

ps2. Teaching is considered one of the most respectable career.

ps3. your life will be easier in Pakistan as a working wife than here in Canada or in UK, because you can easily get maids on low wages (in comparison to Canada or UK).

ps4. its will be only couple of years, cuz guys have more problems in adgusting than women.

ps3 - life is easier in pakistan because i can get a maid? but i dont want a maid! I hate other people doing my work for me! because a) they never do it right or b) they steal c) you have to put up with their excuses - why take on more tension! just do it yourself! i hate this mentality of dumping our work on others in Pakistan.

I agree with ps 4 - guys do have problems adjusting, but usually if they are with their in-laws then its harder.

[Stardust09]

If you don't mind living in Pakistan, then I guess it's alright. Your issue sounds like you just don't want to be sitting at home (or teaching). He should be flexible considering you would be moving there for him. Apply for jobs, you will get one with your education.

Yea, I don't mind living there knowing its not permanent! because after three years we would move back to Canada InshAllah. the three main concerns are:

1) will he work hard and pass his exams this time around?
2) will I be able to work/study?
3) what are his career prospects after studying from a pakistani institution? i mean he could come back to canada and they could say sorry, we aren't interested!

[Stardust09]

First of all, Honestly its all upto you.

I was in similar situation as you few months ago. I was standing at one decision and my parents were at a different. I am not saying parents are wrong. They actually think for your best. But, honestly in the end its all up to you.

I am not sure how long you have been engaged to him and what kinds of feeling you have towards him. Since, you said you dont want to be single anymore, seems like this is something you are settling for. This is not someone who you love and want to spend life with. In either case, you will have to struggle a lot if you are going to be with him.

I am Assuming these thing and Inshallah None of this will ever happen but these are the negatives.

From the things you mentioned he is saying, he seems like a conservative guy. So some of the things you will have to compromise with is that you wont be able to practice your career anymore. You will probably living a typical house wife life. Also, one of the scariest thing that might happen is he might hold you back from being successful as a lawyer. Even more he sometimes will feel bad that he is not being able to achieve something that you already have. As a man, they cannot handle a female especially his wife being more successful and earning well then him. Its kind of against a man's Ego. You will sometimes end up suffereing from all his frustrations in not being able to get what he wants.

Again, these are things that i assumed from what you mentioned and i am not saying that this will happen. No one can tell you what will happen. But you can guess from the things he is saying. On the other hand, if you love him and you are sure he loves you truly. Then you will be able to handle all these situations that i mentioned. Just think about all these things, if you think you can handle it then go right ahead. If you think u will not be able to sacrifice as much then let your parents decide. You are a Educated girl, you will find some one in UK or US or canada. SO dont think about that.

In the end its your decision if you think you can do it then you will be able to do it.

Good Luck!!

Alot of people here are talking about whether I love this person or if I am just doing it to be single. Tbh, I am a little shaky about love because I've been badly hurt in the past and am too scared to use the word. Instead of looking for "love" Iam looking for peace and serenity between us, communication and comfort. I don't have romantic ideals of running into the sunset with him but have pictured our life to be difficult and thorny because if I get my expectations high then one argument can bring them smashing down to the ground. This is the prob with so many of our girls today. They see these bollywood movies and rubbish like that and wish for someone to whisk them away - I DONT THINK SO!

I feel comfortable around him. His thoughts and ideals are so similar to mine (well...apart from the working in pakistan bit). His family set up is like mine. They aren't too mod shod, his sisters are modest and his brothers MashAllah are hard working. With him, because he is the eldest, his say goes.

Also, when he first asked for the rishta he said I could work and pursue a career even if I had kids. But I said no, if I had children, I would stay at home and look after them. I would not be depriving them of a mother. However, if I have kids, and he is gonna be studying, then who will provide for my children?

I know you are right, I must pray 5 times and place all my trust in Allah (SWT) and I do! He will help me InshAllah.

So our parents just spoke and my mother said that we are in no rush (because iam 24 and he is 28), and we will do the wedding next december InshAllah in Pakistan - the full shebang! Nikah,Mehndi, Baraat. But now he is texting me and saying he wants the Nikah to happen this december. Well my parents wont agree to that at all - so I said to him - the choice is yours, either you study, make something of yourself and then marry , or you get married now, we argue like cats and dogs, this shaadi breaks down, and you fail all your exams- choice is yours.

He just doesnt have patience!

[farrah]

@snowy_winter

Lolz.... yeah, I saw that coming and in a way you are justified, I was kinda pissed off at desi women working in the west as labelling and considering housewives as someone inferior. To clarify:

1. I didn't mean to generalize and apologies if I hurt someone. Ofcourse, there are lots of working women who work hard even in Pakistan and keep their modesty and their distance from men. By "enlightened women" I meant only a subclass of women who consider housewives to be of an inferior race.

2. I think everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, if you don't agree then please back your argument with some logical reasons instead of calling me sick. To back my argument for example, I invite you to visit a couple of software houses in Pakistan, or visit the Liberty market in the evening and you'll understand the "power" and "independance" of women.

thank you for accepting this ...
for you r point no 3. ... i said the "bad" word cuz your explicit description also pissed me off a lot ... so if you can say somethign nasty becuz you were angry ... others can too ...
aurat ki izzat apnay haath mein ... i am a graphic designer .. and i have worked in pakistan and been to such companies that you are mentioning ... its totally on the woman how she handles her relations with her co-workers ...
and i agree that there are girls with flirtatious attitude ... and there are men who love to be around such women ... but then where DONT you find such people?

girls wearing indecent stuff and going around doing monkey business i think is way better than girls in burqa going around doing monkey business ... and i have seen that a lot as well! a girl used to work at my father's office ... completely clad in burqa ... and she was quite a hard working girl .. and my father was extremely careful of girls working in his office ... and took it as his responsibility that nothing bad should happen ... and viola! one day she never went home .. ran off with her boyfriend to some other city and got married ... and her family filed a case on MY father that he is responsible for their daughter's disappearance ... luckily she was stupid enough to make a few calls to someone in the office ... and they were traced back to wherever she was .. and the FIR was canceled ...
so ... doesnt matter what you look like on the outside ... should be clean on the inside!

[stoppit]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

Hi Stardust, I'm glad to hear that it seems to be working out.

It also sounds like the exam failure was a blip, it happens to most of us at some point or other. It sounds like you really do love each other, you just need to calmly decide what the best course of action is for you both and proceed.

Given everything that you have said about him now, I don't see why you would not marry him in the eventuality that he failed again, life can still go on. I think this is why he wants to have the nikkah earlier, so he can be sure you really want to be with him no matter what he ends up doing.
[What do you think? Even if he fails again, would you still go through with it? You said he's the right guy for you and he will take care of you and your family, so it's a matter of when not if. If you're steadfast I'm sure your parents wouldn't refuse.]
But your parents are also right from their perspective and wanting the best for their daughter. So I would suggest that you don't become confrontational with him, don't give him ultimatums. Just try to make him understand your parents perspective, tell him that you will get married next summer as your family want to do everything in one go. Basically just reassure him that it will happen and don't talk about failure or what-ifs. He needs to feel comfortable and secure to make the best of this year and needs your full support :)

Oh and if anyone says anything about you guys living separately or how difficult long distance relationships are or any other such rubbish, just bop them on the head. As long as you are committed to each other and committed to the task in hand time just flies by.

Good luck, I wish you all the best and i'A everything will work out for you guys :)

[farrah]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

goodluck stardust! you sound calm now! :D

[Reha]

Do an istakhara with the niyaat that you want to marry him and you'll get a pretty good idea of what to expect if you do go ahead and marry him. IMHO, istakhara is exactly meant for stuff like this, when you need some divine help to make the right choice.

PS: I can already feel the feminists read to pounce, declare the guy a looser and talk you into "you can do so much better" stuff. Go for istakhara IMHO.

Why are you so obsessed with feminists? You mention them in every single thread...seems like you were given the boot by one and now think everyone is a feminist. I dont blame her.

First of all, I totally agree with you. But I think its not the money that the "enlightened" women are after. Its the "liberty" to do whatever they want including late night dinners, socializing unnecessarily with men as "the job requires it" and stuff like that. I am quite sick of when women speak of housewives in a demeaning manner. Personally I think that taking care of the house and giving a good upbringing of children is a far more significant contribution than earning a couple of bucks at the cost of the home and the children. However, these things are more pretinent from the aspect of a woman working in pakistan where I know exactly why the seths of the companies hire women. Its more like a few woman vs lots of men in the office and every pervert is hitting on them day and night.

Besides, call me backwards or whatever, but the prospect of leaving kids to naukars so that the begum sahab can go work in a preverted environment to earn a few bucks is not exactly appealing to me.

Again, the same comment in other threads too. Why are you so bitter about working women? Did your mother have a job? Enlightened women are women that are working according to your not-so-cared-for-opinion?

The second part...I dont think any woman wants to go and work in perverted work environment...and if it happens its always in Pakistan...ironically enough. This is not a woman's fault, its a problem with the working environment of Pakistan and the mentality of Pakistani men like you that are working there. If a woman wants to work, its absolutely okay. You all need to lower your damn gaze instead of throwing mud on women you should be respecting. Your hormonal excuses will only get you so far.

@snowy_winter

Lolz.... yeah, I saw that coming and in a way you are justified, I was kinda pissed off at desi women working in the west as labelling and considering housewives as someone inferior. To clarify:

1. I didn't mean to generalize and apologies if I hurt someone. Ofcourse, there are lots of working women who work hard even in Pakistan and keep their modesty and their distance from men. By "enlightened women" I meant only a subclass of women who consider housewives to be of an inferior race.

2. I have seen the environment of the some software houses in pakistan and unfortunately the clothes and the flirting manner of some of the girls is quite sickening. Not to mention that its actually the man who encourage such things so yes, the blame lies on them equally if not more.

3. I think everyone is entitled to his/her opinion, if you don't agree then please back your argument with some logical reasons instead of calling me sick. To back my argument for example, I invite you to visit a couple of software houses in Pakistan, or visit the Liberty market in the evening and you'll understand the "power" and "independance" of women.

4. As long as the girl takes good care of her husband and children, she can work as Bill Gates, I don't mind. But I doubt many women can juggle so many balls simultaneously. IMHO calling me sick does not really solve the problem of leaving your kids to naukars.

I would like to see some posts that make you believe there are women on these forums who made comments about housewives to make them feel inferior. You're all about backing up what you say...so back it up.

Overall, I think you're a little too sensitive to this issue and need to calm down.

[snowy_winter]

@PSquared

Why are you so obsessed with feminists? You mention them in every single thread...seems like you were given the boot by one and now think everyone is a feminist. I dont blame her.

Ok, I'd give you a very good reason as to why I don't really like feminists. When I was in school and then later in the University, beautiful girls got alot of unfair benefits including extra marks and priority in each and everything when most of them didn't deserve it. I thought that was unfair, and hence the resentment. There are a couple others, but I'd rather not delve into details.

Now coming to you post. So you had a divine reveletion that I got booted ? Once again shows your biased tendencies... it HAS to be a girl who boots a guy and not the other way around.

@PSquared

Again, the same comment in other threads too. Why are you so bitter about working women? Did your mother have a job? Enlightened women are women that are working according to your not-so-cared-for-opinion?

First, I don't like to share personal information. Second, I consider "enligtened" women as those who blame everything on men. Finally, if my opinion is not-so-cared-for, then why do you bother responding ?

@PSquared

The second part...I dont think any woman wants to go and work in perverted work environment...and if it happens its always in Pakistan...ironically enough. This is not a woman's fault, its a problem with the working environment of Pakistan and the mentality of Pakistani men like you that are working there. If a woman wants to work, its absolutely okay. You all need to lower your damn gaze instead of throwing mud on women you should be respecting. Your hormonal excuses will only get you so far.

Yeah right, all the working women in Pakistan are angels and the men working there are pigs !!!

@PSquared

I would like to see some posts that make you believe there are women on these forums who made comments about housewives to make them feel inferior. You're all about backing up what you say...so back it up.

Overall, I think you're a little too sensitive to this issue and need to calm down.

Here are the examples of some nasty things that feminists said about housewives:

1. They dont want men that are controlling. I dont think any woman in her right mind would want that.They just want men to take care of their every need. They want men they can be dependent on while they sit back and take care of nothing more then cook, clean and raise children (of course this doesnt apply for every woman in pakistan). Whereas in the West women want to be independent and do things for themselves.....men should be happy...takes the burden off of them.

*2. Well i can imagine ur thinking Ali...I know guy'z mentality is like this ..Even in the 21st century they want us such things..Also in islam there is no household duties for women. Aik larki ka yehi farz hai k wo apnay hubby ko khush rakhay and us k liye tayyar hukar and sanwar kar bethay , even bringing up child is also man's duty. I have a question : Why u guyz marry to educated girls?? You people should have to marry with a matric pass girl who can do these things happily. *

3. My friends I and are are a little tired of being introduced to girls who want nothing more out of life than to produce and endless stream of babies. Before you all rush to flame me, I'm not knocking motherhood (I know that none of us would be here if there wasn't a hard working mother involved somewhere in the process), however, not everyone wants to be married to a full-time-7*24-tied-to-the-cooker-with-a-baby-in-one-arm-and-a-rolling-pin-in-the-other-housewife.

4. *So in conclusion half the women in the world who choose to stay at home and raise their kids, give up their careers and jobs *

a. have no personality
b. cook and clean all day
c. are baby producing machines
d. are not companions but rather maids and babysitters

Bye the way, I think I hit a nerve when I talked of feminism. Just to clarify, you can do whatever you please, thats not my business and I am certainly not one to judge. The only thing is that, I have my own opinion of a subclass of working women and you have a different one. Finally, just for argument's sake, if women in the west are so enlightened and have all the independance they need, then why is the family structure collapsing ? Love to hear about the reasons!!

Oh and bye the way, some working women need to be saluted... but these are the ones who pue the care of their kids and hubby at a higher priority than earning a couple of bucks!!

PS: If you don't agree to my view, then please disagree in a civilized manner, no need to get personal.

[Stardust09]

@farrah

goodluck stardust! you sound calm now! :D

Yes, Alhumdulilah I am. Everyones advice here has really helped me calm down. An impartial, third party view is really needed sometimes :)

[Reha]

@snowy_winter

Ok, I'd give you a very good reason as to why I don't really like feminists. When I was in school and then later in the University, beautiful girls got alot of unfair benefits including extra marks and priority in each and everything when most of them didn't deserve it. I thought that was unfair, and hence the resentment. There are a couple others, but I'd rather not delve into details.

Now coming to you post. So you had a divine reveletion that I got booted ? Once again shows your biased tendencies... it HAS to be a girl who boots a guy and not the other way around.

First, I don't like to share personal information. Second, I consider "enligtened" women as those who blame everything on men. Finally, if my opinion is not-so-cared-for, then why do you bother responding ?

Yeah right, all the working women in Pakistan are angels and the men working there are pigs !!!

Here are the examples of some nasty things that feminists said about housewives:

1. They dont want men that are controlling. I dont think any woman in her right mind would want that.They just want men to take care of their every need. They want men they can be dependent on while they sit back and take care of nothing more then cook, clean and raise children (of course this doesnt apply for every woman in pakistan). Whereas in the West women want to be independent and do things for themselves.....men should be happy...takes the burden off of them.

*2. Well i can imagine ur thinking Ali...I know guy'z mentality is like this ..Even in the 21st century they want us such things..Also in islam there is no household duties for women. Aik larki ka yehi farz hai k wo apnay hubby ko khush rakhay and us k liye tayyar hukar and sanwar kar bethay , even bringing up child is also man's duty. I have a question : Why u guyz marry to educated girls?? You people should have to marry with a matric pass girl who can do these things happily. *

3. My friends I and are are a little tired of being introduced to girls who want nothing more out of life than to produce and endless stream of babies. Before you all rush to flame me, I'm not knocking motherhood (I know that none of us would be here if there wasn't a hard working mother involved somewhere in the process), however, not everyone wants to be married to a full-time-7*24-tied-to-the-cooker-with-a-baby-in-one-arm-and-a-rolling-pin-in-the-other-housewife.

4. *So in conclusion half the women in the world who choose to stay at home and raise their kids, give up their careers and jobs *

a. have no personality b. cook and clean all day c. are baby producing machines d. are not companions but rather maids and babysitters

Bye the way, I think I hit a nerve when I talked of feminism. Just to clarify, you can do whatever you please, thats not my business and I am certainly not one to judge. The only thing is that, I have my own opinion of a subclass of working women and you have a different one. Finally, just for argument's sake, if women in the west are so enlightened and have all the independance they need, then why is the family structure collapsing ? Love to hear about the reasons!!

Oh and bye the way, some working women need to be saluted... but these are the ones who pue the care of their kids and hubby at a higher priority than earning a couple of bucks!!

PS: If you don't agree to my view, then please disagree in a civilized manner, no need to get personal.

See what I mean? You're obsessed with feminists and using the word "enlightened"...is that a word thats been thrown around in front of you by some woman a little too much? Either you have a lot of time on your hands, are very bitter because you were given the shaft by an independant woman and now hate all of them or you're just plain wierd.

Regardless, you have got to stop generalizing that all women in the west are feminists and blah blah blah. I know plenty of Western girls who live in joint family systems and are WAY more traditional then their Pakistan-Imported-Counterparts. Ive seen more of this mentality in women who come to the US then women who were born and raised here.

If you're going to attack Pakistani American families, then I have to say that Ive seen some pretty strange things among people who were visiting from Pakistan and were supposedly very traditional. Ive seen Aunties smoking...my mother has been in the US for 35 years and was apalled by this. Most of my relatives who are in Pakistan wear sleeveless clothes and capris. I had relatives visiting from Pak just a week or two ago who thought we were boring because we dont go clubbing every weekend. OH and btw, they also have a wierd sense of purdah too. They only believe in wearing hijab outside of the house...meaning if they're stepping outside their home limits. They dont wear hijab or abaya if other men are inside their home and as soon as they go to someone else's home they take it off. WTH? What kind of purdah is this? It doesnt matter if a non-mehram steps inside the door, he is still non-mehram! There's plenty more examples of Pakistani traditionalism I can give you if you choose to say junk about Pakistani Americans.

Lastly....................you have got to change your social circle or do something because you're just so full of negativity! Its depressing to even read your posts!

[snowy_winter]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

@PSquared

• No one is attacking any family. I have relatives in the states too who r cool.
• I have NOT been to states and have no plans either
• I have NOT been given a shaft by any female enlightened or not

You are right about the negativity though......I'll work on that :=)

[Sara516]

• I have NOT been given a shaft by any female enlightened or not

then to? :D

btw, u have a very feminine nick.

[snowy_winter]

btw, u have a very feminine nick.

Lolz.....yup, thats correct :)

[PyariCgudia]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

He's going to make you give up your career, sounds like it. Your choice.

Secondly, ask yourself are you marrying him or his degree?

Third, ask yourself if you really want to live in Pakistan. It is NOT the same as living in a western country. Big adjustments that YOU have to make. As for him, don't worry about him, he'll find plenty of women in Pakistan.

[McPendo]

Re: Need help to save my engagement :(

Please Dont get married!

[Stardust09]

He's going to make you give up your career, sounds like it. Your choice.

Secondly, ask yourself are you marrying him or his degree?

Third, ask yourself if you really want to live in Pakistan. It is NOT the same as living in a western country. Big adjustments that YOU have to make. As for him, don't worry about him, he'll find plenty of women in Pakistan.

That is true, he will find plenty of women in Pakistan, but what about me? Will I be able to find someone decent in England? I don't think so? the boys here are useless...(no offence to anyone who is a boy and lives in england)...but they are rude, dress horribly, have no idea about their language/culture and have no education/career prospects apart from being a taxi driver. Believe me, I know. I've looked.

But you are right, I should have alot more self-confidence and self-esteem to deal with this. my whole family doesnt want me to do this because they say he has changed so much. He blames me for everything and I dont think I can live with someone like that.

My mum says to just wait and see, wait and see :'(

[Stardust09]

Please Dont get married!

because.....?

[djmi]

He now keeps saying 'if it happens, it happens, if it doesn't then I don't care'.

Please Dont get married!

Agree. I would say listen to your family. And please dont just do nikkah.
If he's changed so much, then that means he will change more.

Why dont you call him to UK, this way you both can study and work together
in the same country.
If you do decide to go to pakistan, then there are private A'level schools there where you can get a teaching job. There are private law firms as well where you can work respectfully.