Re: Need advise
Guys we are not talking about a generic Pakistani girl here. We are talking about a specific girl, who the OP says is naive and innocent. I would go with what her sister says than the collective experience of you all. I wont be surprised if he manipulated this girl into a fake nikah and asked her to keep it a secret till he sorted out other things. She is more to be pitied than censured.
Re: Need advise
i wonder who solemnized the nikaah, who was her wakeel, who were the witnesses? isn't it illegal for the maulana to solemnize nikaah to TWO sisters to the same man at the same time? i'm sure it is as it is Islamically unlawful.
i understand he may have lied but after what happened and the family came to know about it. however, all those involved in the nikaah process [including the Maulana] must be arrested and tried for breaking the law NOW!
i'm sure there must be laws to punish such people. this route must be taken to teach those guys a befitting lesson.
Re: Need advise
Guys we are not talking about a generic Pakistani girl here. We are talking about a specific girl, who the OP says is naive and innocent. I would go with what her sister says than the collective experience of you all. I wont be surprised if he manipulated this girl into a fake nikah and asked her to keep it a secret till he sorted out other things. She is more to be pitied than censured.
I completely agree that he manipulated her and took advantage of her by playing twisted mind games or something. But I fail to accept that she didn't know what the hell was happening. And as someone said, this had been going on for a few years and didn't happen overnight. The guy is largely to be blamed but lets not assume she is totally innocent. She is grown up .. 18 year old goes to college in Pakistan right? Even if it started 2-3 years ago she would have been in 9th/10th grade maybe? Your frontal cortex is well developed by that age that you can make decisions and be responsible. Especially in regards to marriage issues which every pakistani girl knows about since an early age. She didn't thought about her sister and her niece? How she would be betraying them?
Re: Need advise
I completely agree that he manipulated her and took advantage of her by playing twisted mind games or something. But I fail to accept that she didn't know what the hell was happening. And as someone said, this had been going on for a few years and didn't happen overnight. The guy is largely to be blamed but lets not assume she is totally innocent. She is grown up .. 18 year old goes to college in Pakistan right? Even if it started 2-3 years ago she would have been in 9th/10th grade maybe? Your frontal cortex is well developed by that age that you can make decisions and be responsible. Especially in regards to marriage issues which every pakistani girl knows about since an early age.
lol, yeah, 15/16 year olds definitely know what they are doing.
Btw, Paheli I've lived majority of my life in South Asia. Not Pakistan specific, but that doesn't make any difference to what I'm saying.
"She asked for it. She was wearing those clothes. She went outside. She interacted with the opposite gender. She was asking for it. How could she have not known that this was going to happen to her? With her crocodile tears. How can you say she's innocent?"
Older men grooming girls/young women is done all over the world. How you find this acceptable and blaming the victim is just sickening.
Re: Need advise
^ I admire your perseverance. You don't give up do you, even if you don't know jack about something
Excuse me? An 18 year old young adult is not capable of fully understanding the consequences of her actions. An 18 year old doesn't suddenly go "Oh, I want to marry my sisters husband today and not tell anyone" You guys are painting her out to be a sneaky devil who deceived everyone.
It takes months and years as I keep saying to persuade someone. If she was a bit younger you would all be outraged, but because she's 18. You think she was fully aware. It's sad that you think this.
Re: Need advise
Excuse me? An 18 year old young adult is not capable of fully understanding the consequences of her actions. An 18 year old doesn't suddenly go "Oh, I want to marry my sisters husband today and not tell anyone" You guys are painting her out to be a sneaky devil who deceived everyone.
It takes months and years as I keep saying to persuade someone. If she was a bit younger you would all be outraged, but because she's 18. You think she was fully aware. It's sad that you think this.
an 18 year old can be put to death if he/she commits a crime that carries the capital punishment. that means he/she is responsible for his/her actions. no defense lawyer will ever try to defend him/her based on his/her innocence and/or naivety.
Re: Need advise
They been married 5 years + right and she's 18... Please do the math. You are applying your personal experience to an experience that is not the same.
OP said they don't have a father. Enters in a male figure that is always around who is respected and loved...
Also, cultural expectations and religion is not grooming. Jeez, it takes months and years to convince a person that what she is doing is right even though its wrong. No one suddenly signs a nikah just because one told her to.
Ask your sister how long this has been going on, OP.
didn't think of this. The 18 yr old was only 13 when this adult male came into her life. She didn't have a father. Very impressionable. The "grooming" this guy did should not be discounted. That she was groomed as a kid does not mean she would not be vulnerable as a 13 14 15 16 yr old to this guy's "grooming".
Good insight kakee.
Re: Need advise
an 18 year old can be put to death if he/she commits a crime that carries the capital punishment. that means he/she is responsible for his/her actions. no defense lawyer will ever try to defend him/her based on his/her innocence and/or naivety.
Yes, committing murder and rape is definitely the same thing as being groomed. I forgot.
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Yes, committing murder and rape is definitely the same thing as being groomed. I forgot.
an 18 year old in Pakistan/India knows FULL well that she shouldn't go around sitting in man's laps.
Re: Need advise
didn't think of this. The 18 yr old was only 13 when this adult male came into her life. She didn't have a father. Very impressionable. The "grooming" this guy did should not be discounted. That she was groomed as a kid oldest mean she would not be vulnerable as a 13 14 15 16 yr old to this guy's "grooming".
Good insight kakee.
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but really rather than blaming the victim. Why don't you ask your sister how long has this been going on? How long has he been talking to her behind your back? Did they spend time alone together?
Seriously, this has predator written all over it...
Re: Need advise
an 18 year old in Pakistan/India knows FULL well that she shouldn't go around sitting in man's laps.
huh? where does it say that the girl sat on the mans lap...?
Re: Need advise
an 18 year old in Pakistan/India knows FULL well that she shouldn't go around sitting in man's laps.
Which part of "she was 13 years old when this guy entered her life" did you not get?
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lol, yeah, 15/16 year olds definitely know what they are doing.
*LOL. As someone who has taught that age group for several years, I can tell you that they are not always 100% innocent. Quit likening them to infants. *
Btw, Paheli I've lived majority of my life in South Asia. Not Pakistan specific, but that doesn't make any difference to what I'm saying.
"She asked for it. She was wearing those clothes. She went outside. She interacted with the opposite gender. She was asking for it. How could she have not known that this was going to happen to her? With her crocodile tears. How can you say she's innocent?"
** If Feminism is about exempting women of any responsibility that they have toward their own well-being, then such a belief system is partly responsible for the recession of women, not their progression. It's folly to rely solely on the other person to exercise control and not to take any precautions yourself. **
Older men grooming girls/young women is done all over the world. How you find this acceptable and blaming the victim is just sickening.
Calm down. Nobody is denying that the OP's husband is sick. Op's sister did not only receive one kind of grooming ...and a twisted grooming at that. She was groomed much earlier by her mom, her older sister, and other relatives. Why do you insist on removing that grooming completely from the equation? Is feminism about diminishing a woman's ability to reason, to think critically, to take sound measures of precaution...and reducing her to a mindless, helpless victim? If so, then it's an insult to women; it degrades them.
Re: Need advise
I'm not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but really rather than blaming the victim. Why don't you ask your sister how long has this been going on? How long has he been talking to her behind your back? Did they spend time alone together? Seriously, this has predator written all over it...
Kakee I am not being sarcastic. I agree with your assessment. One other poster claims a 13 yr old also should know right from wrong. You can't argue with such logic.
Re: Need advise
huh? where does it say that the girl sat on the mans lap...?
Right there in post 49. Some vivid imagination at work.
Re: Need advise
huh? where does it say that the girl sat on the mans lap...?
means she allowed this to happen. he is more to blame for sure but she isn't an unwilling and an innocent participant. she let this happen...she kept it secret till she was 18 years old...18 years olds sure know what's right and what's wrong.
i know you will argue till eternity and i'm NOT in a mood so i'll let it go.
most people here do NOT agree with you and so do i. she is punishable by the law of the land as well as the laws of shari'a. the man of course deserve bigger punishment because he was married. did you know that Islamically she was an adult even when she started all this [age 15-16].
Re: Need advise
Calm down. Nobody is denying that the OP's husband is sick. Op's sister did not only receive one kind of grooming ...and a twisted grooming at that. She was groomed much earlier by her mom, her older sister, and other relatives. Why do you insist on removing that grooming completely from the equation? Is feminism about diminishing a woman's ability to reason, to think critically, to take sound measures of precaution...and reducing her to a mindless, helpless victim? If so, then it's an insult to women; it degrades them.
uh what?
I am a feminist, but what???
Feminism is about being able to have equal pay to not be told that we have to get married at 18. To have more options than just getting knocked up. To be able to practice medicine, science, engineering and not just being conditioned to stay in education/nursing or w/e.
I am not blaming the mother or the sister because there's nothing wrong in what they did. Only that they trusted the man who manipulated their sister/daughter.
They aren't innocent... because there are teen pregnancies? Do you know why they are teen pregnancies and why it's mostly from poor communities? It's because of the lack of education. The stupid "tradition" to get your daughters married before your sons is also backwards.
Re: Need advise
^ KKF, Even though she was not totally innocent but I consider that she is largely a victim. She mainly got played by the guy but being a Pakistani girl and assuming that she was raised with all the values/morals that an average Pakistani family & muslim society instills in one from a young age, her hands are not completely clean. I won't go that far as to say she needs to be punished. But yea, she needs counseling, lots of it, and for someone to tell her whats right and wrong and to keep an eye on her in the future
Re: Need advise
means she allowed this to happen. he is more to blame for sure but she isn't an unwilling and an innocent participant. she let this happen...she kept it secret till she was 18 years old...18 years olds sure know what's right and what's wrong.
i know you will argue till eternity and i'm NOT in a mood so i'll let it go.
most people here do NOT agree with you and so do i. she is punishable by the law of the land as well as the laws of shari'a. the man of course deserve bigger punishment because he was married. did you know that Islamically she was an adult even when she started all this [age 15-16].
Because you are not thinking logically lol. Yeah, there are a lot of people who think the holocaust never happened, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen does it? Just because there are people who do not agree with me doesn't make it right.
Yeah, if we go by Islamically and look at it black and white then I as well as many of the other women in this thread should have had 3 to 4 children by now. (Given that we would be married at the prime age of what 14? or 13? how young was it back then?)
Re: Need advise
^ at post 56 what does most people agreeing or disagreeing have to do with anything?
Anyway in post 38 Paheli states - and i paraphrase - as a 13 yr she knew better. Good for her.
RV states she has taught 13 14 15 16 yrs. They r not totally innocent. Actually that is a low bar. That if u r not totally innocent , u should know better. It severely underestimates the powers of a predator.
Kkf states she kept it secret till she was 18. Thereby acknowledging that it is highly likely the predator put moves on her before she was 18. Possibly when she was 14. That is child abuse. And kkf is more worried she kept it secret till 18.
convoluted distorted logic at best. Who cares if most people agree with that?