Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
This news information was running on GEO News Bar in the morning for about an hour. Afterwards it had gone. I can not confirm it independently now. Who gave this news to Geo and whether it was factual or not, Wallah 0 Alam.
Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait
Million of panjabis were killed in 1947 for the sake of this country and thats why they love this country so much. Can the other ethnicities make that claim to such a wider extent?? I dont think so. So please stop this Panjabi bashing for the sake of this country and family otherwise ...
Calling names and yelling wont help you get away with the proven facts that Punjab has thrived at the expense of younger brothers, so to say. With natural resources coming from Balochistan and fiscal support generated from Sindh, Pakistan is being able to run its government and since the federal government is Pro-Punjab and resources are arbitrarily flowing towards Punjab, others are crying.
Provincial autonomy is an answer to this problem for which smaller provinces are begging and this was agreed in the Pakistan Resolution that all the federating units of Pakistan would be indpendent. Why Punjab is not in favour of Provincial autonomy is an answer to your hypothesis!
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
No, they dont have. Had it been a rumour I would not have retracted on it. Ask Geo for any further query you have on it.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
‘Mysterious’ blast caused collapse of cave: ISPR
http://www.dawn.com/2006/08/30/top6.htm
…and the Bugti’s death is still unknown to court(s).
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
I thought altaf bhai and his merry band of bhatha collecting, cell phone snatching, terror waging, bank robbing thugs were going to quit the gov't if the army started an operation Balochistan...whatever the frick came of that brave and principled pronouncement????
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Chegu miaN,
your hatred of mohajir is noted and not very good for your heart's health. Beside hate is so 20th. century. Why don't you move on to better things in life. Consider joining the 21st. century, shabaash.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Tnanks Haris for editing the post. I appreciate that.
Further to your question yesterday, please read Jang today about the rumour of that maulana killed and ts clarification. That would perhaps exonerate me from bring rumourist, hopefully.
Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait
Provincial autonomy is an answer to this problem for which smaller provinces are begging and this was agreed in the Pakistan Resolution that all the federating units of Pakistan would be indpendent. Why Punjab is not in favour of Provincial autonomy is an answer to your hypothesis!
Who told u Panjab was not in favour of provincial autonomy??
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Maulana is alive and well and has refused to take any help for his protection from the security or law enforcement agencies.
Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait
Punjab itself. If you need proofs, I would advise you to go back and restart from Kindergarten.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
*I guess nothing as expected. They are not going to leave the government and also Altaf Bhai is at odds with Mr. Imran Farooq the convennor of MQM on issues related to milking opportunities. *
Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait
Provincial autonomy is an answer to this problem for which smaller provinces are begging and this was agreed in the Pakistan Resolution that all the federating units of Pakistan would be indpendent. Why Punjab is not in favour of Provincial autonomy is an answer to your hypothesis!
There is no yelling or name calling here just a dose of reality my friend. You can make a fool out of people only for so long it finally catches up to you.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Further confirms that you need massive reorientation on how to form opinions.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
I’m not talking just about wealthy Punjabis but of everyone, Punjabi or not, who simply think that if it doesn’t affect them, it’s not their problem or just “chlata hai” attitude towards what army does. Clearly, if 90% of Sindh were to oppose the army, the rulers wouldn’t even budge, but if 90% of Punjab did the same, we would see results.
As for joing army to change things, it’s hard to change a system like the army since once you join you become part of it because of the orders you have to follow. I actually know someone who used to be an MQM member and then joined the army and is doing well. He has become part of the system.
nstar, why are you ready to give up on Pakistan before even trying to fix the situation?
What is more important to you, Musharaf’s ego or Pakistan’s integrity?
Army’s hold on power or Pakistan’s integrity?
Centralized power in Islamabad or Pakistan’s integrity?
Why in the rush to break up Pakistan, when there are so many options before us? Have you read the parliamentary report on Balochistan? Why is it not being followed?
If the government can make peace with Taliban in Waziristan, why couldn’t it have done the same with Akabr Bugti?
Why is granting provinces the power they deserve so much worse then breaking up Pakistan? Is giving Balochis the power to do what they want with gas revenue so much worse then threatening Pakistan’s unity?
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
, it's hard to change a system like the army since once you join you become part of it because of the orders
Yea,very true, I know a person who joined pak army, completed basic traning, had become a Ltnt. But he wanted to quit the army and pursue in business(he went to the army b/c his father was a retired brigadier.) But when he wanted to quit, there was much opisiton from the army. His family had to pay 1 lakh rupees to get out,. and this was due to his father was formelerly a brig in army.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
andwhoever said that pak army does not take orders from ANYONE, is 100% correct. Pak army thinks it invicible, and that no one else, other than the army, has right to interfere in its affairs. Pak army is very strong.
And about the punjabi coments, i agree witht hem to sum extent. panjab, proprtionaly has higher amount of money going into it than other provnices. but this wealth isnt shared among all of punjab, even, just for the big cities like lahore, multan, faislabad etc etc. much of punjab is still very poor(esp central panjab) with no electricy etc.
but i think, balochistan has been, jipped the most out of ne other provinces. I dont think pak will ever lose balochistan imo because pakistan would laucnh a militray conquest there, abnd balochistan, woukld w/o a doubt lose b/c pak army is well equipped. but living and healthy balchis on pak side are better then dead, anguished balochis against pak, for both sides, imo
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Another excellent article on the issue
Rover’s diary: Akbar Bugti phenomenon, in a historical perspective
BABAR AYAZ
ARTICLE (September 04 2006): Many years back I had called on Nawab Akbar Bugti at his Quetta residence; he was a bitter man, although his son Salim was a senior Minister in the Balochistan government. During the discussion on harnessing Balochistan’s oil and gas resources, he said that no fresh exploration should be allowed in the province.
Knowing the reasons of his reaction, I suggested that the Balochistan government or the people living on each concession should establish their respective holding companies, which should partner with the prospective exploration companies.
“For instance,” I explained, “You can have, say, 15 to 20% equity in the company so that when oil and gas is discovered you can share the profit.” Nawab Bugti laughed at my suggestion cynically and said: “Babar, you are naïve, the government (Federal) is not willing to give us control over our resources so how can we negotiate with others?” In a way, he was right; the constitution of Pakistan does not give the common people any right over oil and gas reserves.
He was not the only one in Balochistan who felt that the natural resources should not be developed till the province got control over them. “Let them be under the ground as this is the asset of our people, we don’t want to lose them like Sui gas reserves.” This has been the common stand of most Balochis. And that of other nationalists in Sindh and NWFP.
Now every government in Islamabad believes that natural resources are national assets and not that of the nationalities that live there. It is this unresolved provincial autonomy issue which is haunting Pakistan from its inception. Provinces have been denied their right to control their economic resources although we have lost half the country because of this stupidity of the establishment. Their fiscal powers have also been clipped.
Let’s briefly look at the Balochistan issue, as it is one of the worst examples of centre-province relationship in what remains as Pakistan.
First the understanding was reached with the Khan of Kalat on August 4, 1947 that Kalat would be independent on August 15, 1947, enjoying the same status as it originally held in 1863, having friendly relations with its neighbours. Another agreement was signed with Pakistan on the same date which said that: The government of Pakistan agrees that Kalat is an independent state, being quite different in status from other states of India, and commits to its relations with the British Government as manifested in several agreements.
It was agreed that in the meantime a standstill agreement be made between Pakistan and Kalat by which Pakistan shall stand committed to all responsibilities and agreements signed by Kalat and the British government from 1839 to 1947 and by this Pakistan shall be legal, constitutional and political successor of the British. (The British had only control over Quetta and some other areas). A few weeks later Kharan and Lasbella states and Marri and Bugti tribal areas were returned to the Kalat fold. The Kalat Government made a formal independence declaration on August 15, 1947 and a delegation came down to Karachi to discuss the future relationship with Pakistan.
While Khan of Kalat seemed inclined to merge his state with Pakistan, the Baloch Sardars of his jirga were not inclined to do anything in haste without settling the provincial autonomy issues. The Khan was under considerable influence of Quaid-e-Azam and had promised to work out the merger details in three months, but as Quaid was sick this issue was handed over to his cabinet.
They mishandled the whole issue and used the British tactics to place the Balochis against each other by carving out three states of Kalat - Kharan, Lasbella and Makran. This resulted in the first uprising against Pakistan in 1948. The unilateral decision to break the Kalat State by Pakistan was contrary to the earlier understanding that in case the relations of Kalat with any government got strained, Kalat will exercise its right of self-determination.
That was the beginning of the people of Balochistan’s revolt against the centre. They have been to the hills many times since then, the last (before the present armed revolt) being the one against the dissolution of their elected government by Bhutto in 1972. It was just after a few days of the signing of the constitution. Khair Baksh Marri had refused to sign it as it did not recognise the rights of the provinces over their economic resources.
Although the gas was found in Sui in 1952 the province was not given any share from its profits. The province’s right over 12.5% royalty on oil and gas was accepted as late as in 1995.
And what does Balochistan get on the gas produced by it, which meets almost 21% energy needs of the country, is pittance. This royalty goes into the provincial kitty but not much trickles down to the people of the area who actually own this precious natural resource. Imagine how rich the Bugtis would have been if they were in the US, where people became billionaires when oil was found in their land. The government always tried to pacify Akbar Bugti by giving him some money through PPL, but in all fairness what he got and what the province got in the last 54 years was peanuts.
True Akbar Bugti was a brutal tribal Sardar who had a stake in maintaining the status quo which is primitive socially, politically and economically. All in the name of Baloch traditions. But he was not much different in this from a number of other tribal chiefs on the side of the government.
All governments had worked towards preserving this system, even though sometimes they talked about breaking the sardari system. Social systems are not changed through decrees not worth the paper they are written on. This change can only be brought in by changing the economic relations in that society. Not selectively only in the areas of the hostile Sardars, but across the board. What is needed is to empower the people of the area and not the Sardars. This objective can be achieved by giving substantial percentage of the earnings from natural resources to the local governments in that area. As a matter of fact they should be allowed to collect it directly from the exploration and production companies. They should decide what development projects they want and it should not come from above.
The issue of areas which are not blessed with natural resources can be dealt with through federal and provincial grants. The Federal and provincial governments then should ensure that the information about the funds collected is widely publicised. The rest would be done by the people themselves.
The prosperity and high income level of the people living in resource-rich areas would encourage others to seek investment in their areas.
They would also be benefited from a rise in consumption in rich districts and would find some thing to sell to their rich cousins. If Bugtis were given their due share from Sui earnings, Marris would not have stalled the exploration in their areas. They would have rather competed to get the investors to explore what lies in their land.
In the interest of the country, the constitution has to be amended accepting that provinces have a right over their economic resources. The centre can brow-beat the people who stand for this right, but cannot extort. Remember what Habib Jalib said when General Yahya launched a military operation in the then East Pakistan - “Mohabbat golion sey bow rahey ho/Gumaan tumko kay rasta kat raha hey/Yaqeen mujhko kay manzil kho rahay ho.” (Sowing love with bullets/You are presuming it’s a way forward/I am sure you are losing the way).
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
But whether you become a part of the system or not, non punjabis joing the Army does resolve atleast one conflict, as precieved by you, and that is not allowing the Army to be dominated by one ethnic group… You yourself said that many problems would be resolved if the Army were truly representative.
Now a few Mohajirs or Sindhis here and there wont make a difference, but imagine if they joined in the thousands.
You have to admit, that your not going to make a dent by critisizing the system from without… If the Army is going to change, it will have to be from within.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)
Yeah finally they killed him they should have killed him and his ilks long ago. I disagree with almost everything Musharraf does, but on this I am with the govt. No govt in the world can allow parellel govt inside the state and it is high time ppl understand this. Anyone who is mourning for Bugtee's loss should also remember how many ppl suffered cuz of this one terrorist. He was nothing more than a bully and a terrorist its time we killed him like a dog that he was. High time I say if Eng wants Rasheed Abdu Rauf for terrorism charges and they want to do a wanted person agreement, I say Govt should demand that they hand over the other terrorist Altaf Hussain. High time he should be hanged publicly too.
Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)
A year ago, a parliamentary delegation was trusted with the mission to deliberate with Nawab Bugti and get back to the Assembly and debate whats the issue and within a year that spirit which was lawful paved the way for hunting him down and kill him. Who has authrorised that operation and on what basis? A government who says that he was killed in retaliation and that it was not known whether he was there or not was soon to say that he was hiding and forces were zeroing on him since 3 days using satellite tracking system.
To those who believe he blocked the progress of Baloch's may please highlight the level of development we have in rest of the coutnry? And if indeed Sardari System is wrong, why Chaudhris, Sherpaos are not killed in Punjab and NWFP? Indeed the armed forces of Pakistan are the worst Sardars themselves and by all account they had and they continuously have compromised the development of the entire nation. Pakistan is at the worst crossroads today and its them who have brought this country to this juncture.
I condemn the death of Akbar Bugti and his family members at the hands of army and I condemn the rogue state of Pakistan who can not survice with endless hypocricy.
Well condemn all that you want. Now i agree that the feudal system should be finished in all Pakistan. Mr. Bugtee decided to pick a gun and thus met his end. The countless act of terror he committed didn't leave another way. Talks are good when you are talking with individual who is ratinal. Mr. Bugtee was not a rational being. He once stopped speaking urdu because he got mad at someone how rational is that. I am a muhajir and my forefathers surely didn't sacrifice that much so that can see likes of Bugtee take hostage a whole nation. I have a simple response to anyone who doesn't like Pakistan and that is "buddy take a hike and go live somewhere else". Pakistan Zinda Bad.