Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

SO PASHTUNS AND MUHAIJIRS OUTNUMBER THE PANJABIS BY ABOUT 4 TO 1. But still this whining and complaining all the time makes me sick. And sometimes I wonder if this country is worth keeping togather with all this bs going on. And hypothetically and God forbid if we breakup this country into 4 smaller ones, the whining would still continue because Panjab would still be bigger, prosperous and nuclear. So to all those wizzards who complain and dream my message is that they should be grateful to be part of this beautiful country called Pakistan and stop propogating all this regional and ethnic biases and bs'es.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Don't worry nstar, everything would be fine. But I assure you that Iltaf bhai isn't going to be very happy when Musharraf leaves his office.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Exactly. Those sitting thousands of miles away like to talk tough and think they know what is happening on the Pakistani street.

They bury their head in the sand, and ignore all the street protests and condemnation that has filled Pak streets and newspapers papers since the murder

The Friday strike was succesful with Karachi and Pakistan shut down to honour Nawab Bugti…except of course Punjab…the divide grows

http://www.dawn.com/2006/09/02/top2.htm

Reports said the shutdown in most parts of Balochistan, NWFP and Sindh was near-complete while Punjab witnessed a poor response to the call.

QUETTA: The strike paralysed the entire Balochistan. A mob in the Panjgur district set afire a police post and an unspecified number of shops.

Police claimed to have arrested 70 people on a charge of inciting trouble.

PESHAWAR: The business community observed complete shutter down in the NWFP.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006\09\02\story_2-9-2006_pg1_3

Complete strike in Karachi and Balochistan

QUETTA/KARACHI: Two rangers were killed in Karachi in a strike across Balochistan and in Karachi on the call of the ARD, the MMA and the four-party Baloch National Alliance to protest the killing of Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti.

The strike paralysed provincial routine as business centres, shops, educational institutions and government offices remained shut and angry protesters blocked all highways connecting Balochistan to other provinces. The protesters burnt tyres and shouted anti-government slogans and there were reports that some protesters burnt the Pakistani flag during a demonstration in Mekran.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Amorphous, your list of army chiefs is telling and proves my point. The two goras who were chiefs, did this mean the army was controlled by gora interests? Under Ayub Khan, did Hindko's take over Pakistan? Did the Hazara's rule over Pakistan under Musa Khan? And so on. The basic power structure in Pakistan is based around the ruling elite of Punjab and those who join hands with them, Mohajir or Balochi.

You or anyone else will be judged by the company you keep or the people you support. Just like we are judged on what MQM does, because majority of us support MQM, you will be judged on what army does, because majority of Punjab supports army actions. Power comes from the powerbase and its clear that the army gets most of its support from areas of Punjab and NWFP.

Anyway, thankfully the situation in Pakistan is very different. All important leaders, including from Punjab has condemned the army action.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Let it be very clear that I do not judge Mohajirs on what MQM does. I only judge MQM workers or strong supporters on what MQM does. You're right that we should be judged by our ideas and the people we support, and not by the tags that are attached to us by random people.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Ok, IF there had been more Bengalis, then Yaya Khan may have been convinced to follow a more sane course of action. But when there is an uprising and the writ of the authority is challeneged then the govt will call for harsh action regardless of what the army is composed of. In India for instance, where demorcacy and representation is in full swing, you still get massive human rights abuses by the military. Example would be during the sikh uprising in which many crimes were commited by the Indian state despite there being descent representation of Sikhs in the military.
As for the Punjabi masses, I dont think they have the control you think they do. If they do, you will have to explain. There is strong distinction between the Masses and the elites. The masses, they are more concerned about living their lives, trying to send their kids to school, etc then getting involved in politics, you cant expect these people to make much difference, they are often as down trodden as the common sindhi or anyone else. The number of wealthy Punjabis who can make a difference are a very small percentage of the overall population. Although there are many wealthy Punjabis, many have their own vested intrests the same as the wealthy Mohajir in Karachi, the landlord in Sindh or any other wealthy group in the country. Punjani masses are not wealthy. When the army comes rolling through, these people also steamrolled.. .I can even give a specific example.
People in the heart of the Army recruiting grounds have been abused.
ALSO, you didnt answer the question… WHY dont people like yourself who see so much wrong with the army, join and make things better?

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Get up early in the morning, post a few a stories critical of governemnt (read Pakistan), predict the demise of Pakistan, call everyone Punjabi if he doesn’t agree with you, if he’s found to be someone other than Punjabi, tell him that he doesn’t live in Pakistan so he doesn’t know anything (while he could be living even in Karachi). If sombody posts anything positive about Pakistan, ask him ‘do you believe that?’, and use your characteristic smilie :rolleyes:

..and go back to sleep.

Is this all you can contribute?

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

amorphous, do you actually live in Pakistan or no? Alot of ppl in punjab are condeming bugti's murder.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

My location shouldn't be an issue here. I've made myself clear that I don't consider Bugti an honorable person, but I don't think Musharraf should've killed him. He should've been punished through courts for his crimes.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

killing Nawab Bugti is surely the beginning of the end of Pakistan being able to hold on to Baloochistan. The military 'nabobs' miscalculated in 1971 and broke up the country and now it is going to happen again. Nice job herr.generalissomo and lotas!

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Ardeshir Cowasjee has some interesting things to say of the man… He was a horrible person, and yet irony is, in death he has gotten a reputation that he should never have been gifted.

The Tumandar of the Bugtis

By Ardeshir Cowasjee

IT IS not possible to remain unmoved by the death of a man one has known for almost half one’s life — a man of violence who fittingly died a violent death. Difficult indeed he was, as he held one sole stern view of life and the world in which he lived, a view that was unshakeable, non-negotiable and non-discussable.

The first time I met the arrogant and handsome Akbar Bugti, in the late 1960s in Karachi, he told me in his gruff normal tone of voice that he had heard about me and asked why I spelt my name wrongly. Did I not know how to spell my own name? That I did not react did not please him. He went on to tell me that we silly Parsis did not even know the correct name of their own prophet. He was Zardost and not Zarathustra as many of us ignoramuses were wont to refer to him. He knew all about how the Zoroastrians had fled Iran after the Muslim invasion, fearing for their lives, and sneeringly remarked that the Bugtis would have taken on the oppressors, stood up and fought and died, and not sailed away to supposedly safer climes.

He took great pleasure in being as awkward as possible, and if an audience was present, thoroughly enjoyed being as mean and insulting as he could to whichever individual on that particular occasion was his chosen butt. He had a sense of humour, but only at the expense of others. Heaven help anyone who tried to take the mickey out of him — they were demolished. Akbar was not a likeable man — he hardly inspired affection, but he was a unique personality to whom one was attracted merely by the force of his character — as charming or as nasty as it could be. His visits to Karachi were akin to a circus coming to town — entertainment and colour guaranteed.

A hardened jailbird himself — having been on death row awaiting the hangman for the alleged murder of one of his kinsmen — he was unsympathetic to others who had experience of the prisons of Pakistan. He told me at one of our meetings that Zulfikar Ali Bhutto had shown him a letter of apology I had written while in jail in Karachi in 1976 (to this day I am not quite sure as to why Bhutto put me in). Not wishing to linger and on the advice of the then Sindh Home Secretary, Mohammed Khan Junejo, who assured me that were I to apologise, Bhutto would let me out. Without hesitation I wrote : “Dear Mr Prime Minister, I believe I have caused you annoyance and if I have, I sincerely apologise.” I was prepared to leave it at that, but Junejo urged ‘Aarre bhai, kooch tareef be to karo, Usko khush karo’. So I added, “I have been your sincere friend and remain so.”

The Tumandar found this hilarious, and chastened me for my lack of spine — never ever would he have apologised to anyone, in any way, for anything. Well, he didn’t have to. For political and other reasons, his murder sentence was reprieved and he was let out by Ayub Khan, Bhutto claiming the credit.

In spite of all, I would be telling an untruth were I to say that I did not enjoy his company — and I know there are many others who will say the same. Like our other few colourful non-mediocre rogues (Jam Sadiq Ali for one), he will at least brighten up our history books. He was exceedingly entertaining, even in his ‘*****iness,’ provided it was not directed at you. He was fun to be around, and he was a voracious reader who could talk on any subject under the sun. The most acceptable gift one could give him was a book.

There is one passage in the book ‘The Tigers of Balochistan’, written by Sylvia Matheson (published 1967), which epitomises the man’s approach to life. He was then twenty-one. She was questioning him on his calmly uttered statement to her, reminding her that he had killed his first man at the age of twelve. “About this man you killed — er, why?” “Oh that!” he responded as he sipped his tea, “Well, the man annoyed me. I’ve forgotten what it was about now, but I shot him dead. I’ve rather a hasty temper you know, but under tribal law of course it wasn’t a capital offence, and, in any case, as the eldest son of the Chieftain I was perfectly entitled to do as I pleased in our own territory. We enjoy absolute sovereignty over our people and they accept this as part of their tradition. As a matter of fact, my own father was murdered — he was poisoned — and what’s more, I know who did it. It was his half-brother whom I call uncle . . .”

Matheson asked him what he intended to do about it, “Will you poison your uncle?” He seemed shocked at such a banal suggestion. “Good heavens, no — poisoning’s too good for such a man. Besides, I don’t want a blood feud on my hands, which is what that would mean. No, I shall wait until I can get rid of the whole family — discreetly of course.” And he smiled, wrote Matheson, “like some Medici nobleman discussing the removal of a tiresome fellow Florentine.”

Akbar believed, and believed that all the rulers of Pakistan should so believe with him that the land gifted to his ancestors by the British, the centre of his Earth, belonged to him and to him alone, and that all that lay above it and beneath it was his to do with as he wished. Well, under a different set of laws in the US John D Rockefeller and others of his ilk thrived. To think as Bugti did was his privilege.

But there is no one in Pakistan today who can truly subscribe to the belief that the manner in which Nawab Muhammad Akbar Shahbaz Khan, the undisputed Tumandar of all the Bugtis, was killed — or assassinated, or executed (with no Medici finesse) — and the way in which he was ordered to be buried were the acts of honourable men. They were not. Like it or not, Pakistan will have to live with the consequences of this most dishonourable craven crime. Yet another war has been ‘won’ in the annals of Pakistan’s dismal history.

http://www.dawn.com/weekly/cowas/cowas.htm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

^Yes, excellent article. I was just thinking of posting this from today’s Dawn.

As usual Cowasjee puts it best! :k:

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

‘Sorry’ if the truth hurts you :rolleyes:

Instead of trying to be a smart ass, try living in Pakistan to see what the situation is actually like.

Otherwise if you want to continue being a naive gullible fool, here is the website re honest hero’s, which is 100% truthful for you www.pak.gov.pk

Have fun, and wake up to the ground realities in Pak, instead of swallowing what your favourite dictator and some ‘uncle’ tells you :rolleyes:

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

The pakistan army doesn't like to take orders from the civilian governments, unlike the US or other armies. The generals of the pakistan army do what they consider best for the interests of "their" army. The pakistan army has been running amok through the whole country since its inception. The situation would be much better if the civilian governments had any control over this monster.

iht.com/articles/2006/09/03/opinion/edpak.php
There are dangerous international terrorists hiding out in the mountain caves of Pakistan. But Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, 79, the Baluch tribal leader, politician and rebel, was not one of them.

Now Bugti is dead and the impoverished but energy-rich province of Baluchistan is in an uproar after an ill- explained military operation last month. After a week of contradictory government statements, the only things now clear are that Bugti's body was buried in the rubble of his blown- up mountain hideout, and that antigovernment fury in the restive province is at a new pitch of intensity.

The last thing Pakistan needs is an upsurge in violence and repression in Baluchistan. That would only be a distraction from far more important challenges, like developing a chronically underachieving economy; restoring a damaged democracy; and placing a dangerous nuclear weapons establishment, including exports of bomb-related technology, under firm and reliable civilian control.

And there are far more crucial things that Pakistan's military could be doing than hunting down Bugti and his followers. For example, it could finally seal its scandalously porous border with Afghanistan, making it much harder for the Taliban to infiltrate into that country the fighters killing American, NATO and Afghan soldiers. It could permanently shut down the Pakistan-based Kashmiri terrorist groups that have survived past crackdowns by reopening under new names, with little interference from Pakistani authorities. Not least, it could make a more serious effort to find and arrest Osama bin Laden, widely believed to have spent much of the past four and a half years on Pakistani soil.

Any of these efforts would stir up opposition in one part or another of the Pakistani military, the only constituency that Pakistan's president, General Pervez Musharraf, ever really cares about. So long as elections are brazenly rigged, opposition parties are banned and Washington's uncritical support remains guaranteed, Musharraf has little incentive to take up any of these vital challenges.

When Musharraf comes to the United States, he loves to be lauded as a leader in the war on terrorism. Back home, his government too often acts like a garden-variety military dictatorship.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

I am a great admirer of Cowasjee as a writer but at the same time I do not rule out his biases. Its the reason that whenever he writes on the master plan of Karachi I automatically refer to his stakes in it. Another such bias he has is that he does not know why Bhutto would incarcerate him while he is totally on board on the reasons which put him on the wrng side of Bhutto. A detailed version can also be found in “Zulfi Bhutto of Pakistan”

Muhammad Khan Junejo was not the home secretary but home minister is another mistake in his article. I would definitely doubt his version of Bugti to the extent that Bugti’s inept handling of Cowasjee’s religious sentiments should have made later hate him on the same lines he hated Bhutto. Afterall no one would like to be told that he spells his name wrong.

Having said that may I invite readers attention to yet another twist in the story?

The only civillian witness to Bugti’s dead body, Maulana Maluk Bugti, has been shot dead

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

With genuine grief for him or not, they do condemn his murder. Late last night there was a talk show on ARY One World which was anchored by Ayaz Amir and it was attended by Senator Haye Baloch, A PML (N) MNA and a free lance journalist (excuse me for names). Later two and the achor who are Punjabis were unanimously of the opinion that Balochistan has been mishamdled by the various governments of Pakistan and the way Bugti has been treated is condemnable and its impact on the federation of Pakistan is very dangerous.

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

[QUOTE]
The only civillian witness to Bugti's dead body, Maulana Maluk Bugti, has been shot dead
[/QUOTE]

Capricorn, any more details, sources for this news, when did it happen?

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Rumors have a source?

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

This point was raised before and is a very valid point. The problem is that in this family called Pakistan there is a big brother called panjab. And the younger brothers always try to blame the big brother for their own stupidities and misfortunes. They know they can get away with it and cover their lazy asses behind this family unity concept. I am scared of the time which is coming soon when 85 million panjabis are going to get tired of this BS and tell the other family members to take a hike and start contributing towards the family solidarity. It seems to be everyone in that country is a victom and panjabis are to be blamed for it.

***Million of panjabis were killed in 1947 for the sake of this country and thats why they love this country so much. Can the other ethnicities make that claim to such a wider extent?? I dont think so. So please stop this Panjabi bashing for the sake of this country and family otherwise...