Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (MERGED)

TheRealDeal · September 1, 2006, 3:10pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

You can talk to all the Punjabi’s in Balochistan you want, that is irrelevant to the feelings of the Baloch

Prince_Abbas · September 1, 2006, 3:14pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

Wrong example. Balochistan is Pakistan, while South Asia was not Britain.
Anyone who burns Pakistan’s flag while in Pakistan, should be punished for treason.

TheRealDeal · September 1, 2006, 3:15pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

The Baloch now consider Pakistan to be a colonial occupier as much as the British were in India

Prince_Abbas · September 1, 2006, 3:19pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

Some people always consider everyone different from them as 'colonial'.

The point is that Balochistan is an internationally recognized part of Pakistan, and hence even if some freaks consider Pakistan 'colonial', it is definitely not.
Same goes for 'Sistan wa Balochistan' province of Iran, Jharkhand/Punjab/etc. of India and Kurdish province of Iraq.

TheRealDeal · September 1, 2006, 3:21pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

Same was said about Bosnia, Bangladesh, Uzbekistan, etc. Learn from history.

Prince_Abbas · September 1, 2006, 3:23pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

So are you saying that Pakistan is a colonial power in Balochistan because some Balochis think so? Or are you saying that India is a colonial power in Jharkhand/Nagaland/Punjab/etc. because some Bharati Punjabis think so?

mo293 · September 1, 2006, 3:25pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

LOL, blind hatred will eat you inside out.. I am no punjabi but that is beside the point… Two generations in Blochistan is lot of time to know the feelings.

TheRealDeal · September 1, 2006, 3:52pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

Perhaps you are not, but we are talking about the feelings of the Baloch, and you are obvioulsy not Balochi

The protests since Bugti was murdered show the vast majority of Baloch, and those who have not been bought off by the govt,supported him, not personally, but supported him in his fight for Balochi rights against 'Punjabistan'

sTaLkEr · September 1, 2006, 4:03pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

^^ Man, how much is Iltaf Bhai paying ya, will ya please tell?

mercenary2k · September 1, 2006, 4:29pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

RealDeal, are you indian or pakistani?

saavan · September 1, 2006, 4:30pm

Re: baloch burned Pakistani flag

ok…so not being a kashmiri i dont have the right to talk about it…then y u r talking about baloch???
that is our problem…v want to talk..but dont want any one to talk…

brother in this way..no body can talk about anybody…

hum bhi mun main zuban rakhte hain
kash koi pooche mudaa kya ha

Cool_Breeze · September 1, 2006, 5:06pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

All I know is one thing that during partition, there were 2 main tribes in Balochistan. One was gainst Pakistan and another was with Pakistan. And Nawab Bugti was in the tribe that was with Pakistan. I wonder who were the people who were against it ....
I don't know much about him but I know that he was the main person who helped the govt with Sui gas project initially. he was well educated and wasn't deserved to be killed by own army.
Its just ridiculous.

Haris · September 1, 2006, 7:46pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

Good to see you back Sa1eem!

mo293 · September 1, 2006, 9:10pm

Re: Nawab Akbar Bugti Killed (Merged)

How about Balochis who are celebrating and why are they celebrating any thought on that… Next you will call them Punjabis, LOL… You seem to duck the question and accuse people of something they are not just because you have grudge against the rulers…

Its simple you want to know first hand about Bugti just move to Bugti town and enjoy the red carpet welcome, that was a simple answer I got from Quetta..

Khehkeshan · September 1, 2006, 9:13pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

saroo:

Open your eyes and stop lookin through this punjabi hatred glasses u r wearing… Army killed Bugti…Lead by Musharaf…A Punjabi ? … Most of the corps commanders are from Sindh… Punjabi ?
I agree with you that Bugti should not have been killed. Yes balochistan has been criminally neglected. But it is also true that Bugti never passed on any benefits that he received apart from selected members of his tribe raising an army in the process. Despite all that he should not have been killed. But please state the facts . This is not the forum but if u think Punjab is better of then anyother province then please feel free to complare my village to any part of Pakistan and i can tell it will come last. I am not saying that there is nothing wrong… What i am saying is that go to Pakistan and for a moment stop listening to those selling u hate politics and see facts with your own eyes. Common man like me and you is suffering regardless of provincial boundries.

My eyes are open saroo. Akbar Bugti, the first to support Pakistan and Jinnah in Balochistan, was killed by a 90% Punjabi army and that matters to Balochs. Even if Musharraf is mohajir, guess who the Balochis are most angry with? Punjab is the dominant province in Pakistan and even Musharraf cannot change this fact. Lets face it, the poverty in Balochistan is far greater then in any other province. Part of the fault for sure lies with sardars, but the government is not an innocent bystander in all of this. They have played a double game which has made Pakistan weaker today.

I have nothing against Punjabi people, but there comes a time when you all have to realize that army rule has ruined Punjab’s image in Pakistan. Even though Musharraf is mohajir, I don’t support him because he is, like any dictator, bad for Pakistan, but especially bad for Punjab!

I also do not support Bugti, Jamali, Bhutto or any wadera or sardar but at one time or another the army has helped prop such people up and killed them when they got too powerfull. Jamali must be wrorried now for his fate. Once the Prime Minister, tomorrow he could be a terrorist.

sTaLkEr · September 1, 2006, 11:05pm

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

Sa1eem:

**^^^ umer.ashraf:
**
Do you mean to say that Bugti guides (suppose to be most trustworthy and privileged of Akber Bugti) were so fed-up with Bugti atrocities that they showed government forces the way to his hideout?

What I know is that, use of satellite phone call by Bugti grandson gave the clue of their hideouts to the government. Regardless, once Bugti’s hideout was known (by whatever means), if government wanted to kill him then what stopped government to kill him without risking life of commandos. They could have starved him there to death, blow the hideout from outside, or gas him out.

Unfortunately, in this incidence, commandos were killed and thus this is proof that government wanted to arrest him alive and because of that, paid the price with the life of commandos (a sacrifice just to arrest rather kill an unworthy man that did not even paid off)..

Cases were registered in ‘A’ areas of Balochistan (that is 5 percent of Balochistan) or in other provinces. Obviously, there are many from Bugti tribe who are educated (getting education from outside Bugti areas) and are living outside Bugti areas or are working for Bugti if living in Bugti areas. These people (if they are Bugtis) are those that could not even enter Bugti area unless they are Bugti loyal and have permission to enter there.

Bugti area had schools that Bugti use to run on behalf of government, where Bugti did not allowed any child to register as student. He was using school as his private property and using the post (and pay) of teachers to pay his mercenaries. Government knew all that and past government did not use to do anything because it was easier for them for peace to keep Bugti happy then care for the people. [what I wrote is changed now but that was the situation]

Did you write above statement when you were drunk? Baloch Sardars against the government .. why was also Bugti there? …Man, Bugti was a Baloch sardar and it is not a fight between Baloch sardar and government, but between some Baloch sardars and government.

** Contrary to what you wrote, actually there is justice in killing Bugti, because he was fighting with real arms and killing real people, people armed and were working for the government. He was also killing innocent civilians and destroying public properties and infrastructure. Thus, these armed people Bugti was targeting have all the rights to target and kill him. **

What do you think Bugti (along with his people) was not targeting and killing government forces? If he was then, why government should not target and kill him? Do you think that Bugti had rights to target and kill government forces but they should stay sitting duck for him and should not shoot back?

Ask INDIA, RUSSIA (of old days), Afghanistan (of today), USA (of today), past environment of Zia-ul-Haq and our tribal culture plus money from royalties Pakistan government gives to tribal chiefs, including Bugti (that Musharaf is trying to curtail).

Land belongs to Bugti people, not sardars. Akber Bugti confiscated lands of many Bugtis illegally. Since there is no Pakistani law in 95 percent of Balochistan, these things get unreported and unpunished. Bugti was not controlling his private land, rather he was controlling whole Bugti areas, illegally. No one should have that right. People in Bugti land had no free choice to report anything because it was/is ‘B area’ and regardless, if anyone could have dared to report in ‘A areas’, they could have done at the expense of their life and life of their families.

[It seems that Musharaf wants all ‘B’ areas to be converted to ‘A’ areas in Balochistan as well as change the status of tribal areas to settled areas. This will bring better justice to people in both areas]

Again, it seems that you are writing drunk. How can rebel Baloch leader and Akbar Bugti are separate issue? Akbar Bugti is rebel Baloch leader. Regardless, you should carefully read my last mail that you quoted carefully, and you will realise that development in Balochistan and sardari issues (as it is in Balochistan) are related. Development and education in Balochistan where government of Pakistan is directly involved (thus not giving funds to sardars for development and education but spending it directly so that funds are used for the purpose) is the biggest issues of sardars.

That is obvious, as they always used ‘fight for the right’ as slogan to misguide people.

What I know is that, Bugti and some sardars took arms so that they can bring the government on the negotiating table. I have heard that they were complaining to some politicians why government is not negotiating. They thought that it would be easier for government to compromise by giving them all what they want as done by all previous governments.

They were only asking for money and power over their own tribal people’s life and stopping of all development work in Balochistan (money saved could have been used in developing Sindh and Punjab), nothing more so that they can calm down (to them, they were giving government good deal). To them (Bugti and others), it was unfortunate that government is bent on spending money on Balochistan and did not compromise with them as past government use to do. How sad, isn’t it?

Some sensible stuff, finally. Well said, man :k:

mulz · September 2, 2006, 12:51am

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam's portrait

Khehkeshan:

My eyes are open saroo. Akbar Bugti, the first to support Pakistan and Jinnah in Balochistan, was killed by a 90% Punjabi army and that matters to Balochs. Even if Musharraf is mohajir, guess who the Balochis are most angry with? Punjab is the dominant province in Pakistan and even Musharraf cannot change this fact. Lets face it, the poverty in Balochistan is far greater then in any other province. Part of the fault for sure lies with sardars, but the government is not an innocent bystander in all of this. They have played a double game which has made Pakistan weaker today.

I have nothing against Punjabi people, but there comes a time when you all have to realize that army rule has ruined Punjab's image in Pakistan. Even though Musharraf is mohajir, I don't support him because he is, like any dictator, bad for Pakistan, but especially bad for Punjab!

I also do not support Bugti, Jamali, Bhutto or any wadera or sardar but at one time or another the army has helped prop such people up and killed them when they got too powerfull. Jamali must be wrorried now for his fate. Once the Prime Minister, tomorrow he could be a terrorist.

You are right to a large extent but not bout Punjabis. Punjabi thinkers made this country what it is. Lahore is Pakistan's cultural capital and we Punjabis are everything- Scientists, farmers, Engineers, Scientist- u name it. If you look at the curent situation ZAB, Zardari and Bhutto were the most corrupt rulers and no one was a Punjabi. Punjabi with a few exceptions of Ch. Shujaat are least corrupt , polite, and very peace-loving.

system · September 2, 2006, 1:13am

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

Khehkeshan:

My eyes are open saroo. Akbar Bugti, the first to support Pakistan and Jinnah in Balochistan, was killed by a 90% Punjabi army and that matters to Balochs. Even if Musharraf is mohajir, guess who the Balochis are most angry with? Punjab is the dominant province in Pakistan and even Musharraf cannot change this fact. Lets face it, the poverty in Balochistan is far greater then in any other province. Part of the fault for sure lies with sardars, but the government is not an innocent bystander in all of this. They have played a double game which has made Pakistan weaker today.

I have nothing against Punjabi people, but there comes a time when you all have to realize that army rule has ruined Punjab’s image in Pakistan. Even though Musharraf is mohajir, I don’t support him because he is, like any dictator, bad for Pakistan, but especially bad for Punjab!

I also do not support Bugti, Jamali, Bhutto or any wadera or sardar but at one time or another the army has helped prop such people up and killed them when they got too powerfull. Jamali must be wrorried now for his fate. Once the Prime Minister, tomorrow he could be a terrorist.

The army may be 90 percent Punjabi, but the decisions are made only by the small percentage of top brass, inclulding Musharaf, who just happens to be from your community of Mohajirs. And as far as I know, most of the generals in charge, Zia aside, were not Punjabi. Ayub Khan may have been a hindko speaker but hindko speakers definently dont consider themselves Punjabi. And many Punjabis arent in favor of the Army either, so placing the blame for what the Army does squarely on Punjabis is unfair. What ever has gone wrong in Pakistan has happend as collective failing.

system · September 2, 2006, 1:20am

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

Well, lets not tout the punjabi horn to loud.. Nawaz Sharif was probably the worst of the lot.

system · September 2, 2006, 1:22am

Re: Burning of Pakistani flag and dafacing Quaid-e-Azam’s portrait

Khehkeshan:

My eyes are open saroo. Akbar Bugti, the first to support Pakistan and Jinnah in Balochistan, was killed by a 90% Punjabi army and that matters to Balochs. Even if Musharraf is mohajir, guess who the Balochis are most angry with? Punjab is the dominant province in Pakistan and even Musharraf cannot change this fact. Lets face it, the poverty in Balochistan is far greater then in any other province. Part of the fault for sure lies with sardars, but the government is not an innocent bystander in all of this. They have played a double game which has made Pakistan weaker today.

I have nothing against Punjabi people, but there comes a time when you all have to realize that army rule has ruined Punjab’s image in Pakistan. Even though Musharraf is mohajir, I don’t support him because he is, like any dictator, bad for Pakistan, but especially bad for Punjab!

I also do not support Bugti, Jamali, Bhutto or any wadera or sardar but at one time or another the army has helped prop such people up and killed them when they got too powerfull. Jamali must be wrorried now for his fate. Once the Prime Minister, tomorrow he could be a terrorist.

Also, Balochis have also had a beef with the Mohajirs in the past… In yesterdays Dawn, someone wrote that when Bugti was governer under Bhutto, he complained that all top jobs were going to either Punjabis or Mohajirs.