Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Are you also against destroying legally built worship places by government?
Against destroying legally built masajid. - Yes
Against having to launch an operation because someone is holed up in a masjid and will not come out and law enforcement has to get him out and he attacks them, and the masjid gets damaged in the process. - No
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
I do not condone unethical methods
ummm....the general meaning of nationalism is to support your country (or a group etc) in every way(right or wrong) but if you're(muslim nationalist) saying that you don't support unethical(wrong or unislamic) methods then I have no problem in calling myself a nationalist.
I agree with rest of your post.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
..... but if you're(muslim nationalist) saying that you don't support unethical(wrong or unislamic) methods then I have no problem in calling myself a nationalist.
Finally Hareem Bibi is out of her main na maanoo attitude. However her new twist is really strange.
She has just defined a new term "Muslim Nationalist". What an oxymoron!
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Hareem...these are the people who openly supported the destruction of masjids...where Qurans were kept.
They desecrated the masajids, killed the believers...do you think they care about ahadeeth.
I agree with you that Ghazi biraaderaan shouldn't have desecrated the masajids with weapons and killed the soldiers.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Finally Hareem Bibi is out of her main na maanoo attitude. However her new twist is really strange.
But I still believe that the common meaning of nationalism is supporting your country(or people) even if they're wrong. Thats what written in most books about the definition of nationalism.
She has just defined a new term "Muslim Nationalist". What an oxymoron!
Actually its someone else in this thread who has defined or invented this new term.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
What kind of question is this? Does it have anything to do with RS$hite or Mulloo politics?
I know some of you take delight calling shiites such names but you atleast elaborate a but what the RS part stands for?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
May I ask which dictionary did you consult?
Nationalist is the one who loves and defends his or her country (period).
p.s. First mistake of Hareem BB when she equated Asabiyya (tribal, clanish) to nationalist
Second mistake of Hareem BB when she couldn't spend money on a good dictionary (simply because a Mulloo took it all)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
BTW isn't it against poliocy and docorum to call sects such names? Sunni calls shia ****ties and shia call sunni some worse and then bomb each other. For what?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Hmmmmm! newbie!!!
RS$hite are the rabid Hindu Mullahs who want to take over India just like
Our Mulloos want to terrorize Pakistan.
p.s. RS$hite has nothing to do with Shiites.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Remember nationalists have to support their country in every situation whether it is wrong or right.
Hope you understand this.
NO. They don't. I don't know where you got that idea. This is like saying an Islamist has to support everything any Muslim does in the name of Islam.
If someone believes in asserting the interests of one's own nation over the common interests of all nations does not mean that every action that nation does is the right decision. I, for one, am a great American patriot. I love my country but I hate what the current government is doing. It's wrong and it's my patriotic duty to disagree.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
good point seminole, ppl are confusing nationalism and patriotism with jingoism.
just like others confuse being religious or conservative with being a militant.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
It's all about balance. Anything else is extremism and that isn't good whether you are a nationalist, mullah, preacher, environmentalit or pet lover.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
I agree with a lot of things in this thread but this is one where I do not agree. Please elaborate what is it in religion (only talking about Islam) that cannot be part of politics. Politics is not a bad thing, its governance, its management of a country or city etc. Can't we be in politics if we believe in God or if we pray or ifwe fast or if we give charity or if we do hajj or if we wage a jihad through our parliament and legislature against the social ills and vices in our society or make decisions in the best interest of the country or defend the country from external agression or show solidarity with worldly concerns. Why this slogan that it is a personal and spiritual thing?
Dude, I'm not saying that religion cannot be part of politics. I'm saying that I think it shouldn't be. That's because it only causes trouble ( pls dont gimme its not the faith's fault its the followers' fault... its trouble nevertheless).. in today's globalized world where we have so many religions.. theres going to be too much conflict if one religion gets involved in politics... in Islam's context.. all this talibanish sharia nonsense.. who the f wants it? most of us do not want sum mullahs trying to govern us based on their own interpretations of Islam..
*"Politics is not a bad thing, its governance, its management of a country or city etc. Can't we be in politics if we believe in God"
^^ *I never said politics was a bad thing.. I'm just saying it religion shouldnt get mixed up with it.. we shudnt have a constitution based on how some clerics interpret the quran...
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
It's all about balance. Anything else is extremism and that isn't good whether you are a nationalist, mullah, preacher, environmentalit or pet lover.
cant agree more..
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Dude, I'm not saying that religion cannot be part of religion. I'm saying that I think it shouldn't be. .
so like..duuuuuude
religion cant be a part of..religion?
radicaaaaal duuuuude.
gimme a puff of whatever you are smoking
PS: i know its a typo :)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
^^ haha dammit fraudia must you always talk about ganja when im tryin to talk some sense into my mullah sympathizing brothers.. im sober for once.. :) stupid mondays
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
It's all about balance. Anything else is extremism and that isn't good whether you are a nationalist, mullah, preacher, environmentalit or pet lover.
Agree with you on that.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Dude, I'm not saying that religion cannot be part of politics. I'm saying that I think it shouldn't be. That's because it only causes trouble ( pls dont gimme its not the faith's fault its the followers' fault... its trouble nevertheless).. in today's globalized world where we have so many religions.. theres going to be too much conflict if one religion gets involved in politics... in Islam's context.. all this talibanish sharia nonsense.. who the f wants it? most of us do not want sum mullahs trying to govern us based on their own interpretations of Islam..
"Politics is not a bad thing, its governance, its management of a country or city etc. Can't we be in politics if we believe in God"
*^^ *I never said politics was a bad thing.. I'm just saying it religion shouldnt get mixed up with it.. we shudnt have a constitution based on how some clerics interpret the quran...
Talibanish Shariah is nonsense but still tell me where Islam is not compatible with governance of an Islamic state. I want specific examples not general perception or propaganda.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
It is narrated by Abu Da'wud that the Messenger of Allah (saaw) said,
"He is not one us of who calls for `Asabiyyah, (nationalism/tribalism) or who fights for Asabiyyah or who dies forAsabiyyah."
And in another Hadith, the Messenger of Allah (saaw) referring tonationalism, racism, and patriotism said"Leave it, it is rotten." [Muslim and Bukhari]
Nationalism here is being used in the sense of tribalism.
If muslims can't organize themselves into "nations", then why aren't there prohibitions against oligarchies, kings, dynasties, etc?
In Islam, you can organize your people in whatever way you want. As long as you adhere to the moral laws as perscribed by the Quran. You can make a Parliament, a Senate, a President, a PM, a Nazim, whatever.
The muslim empire was an empire, was it not? Was it not divided into territories? How is that any different from the muslim world being divided into nations?
Use your brain.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
NO. They don't. I don't know where you got that idea.
Consider the well-known expression: "My country, right or wrong."
And in all practical terms, if it's comparing one country to another, a patriot will always err on the side of his or her country. Always.
One will always find ways to excuse their compatriots. How many supported Bush's invasion, and only found their moral compass once the war went bad?
No, to be a patriot does not mandate one turn a blind eye to their nation's misdeeds. America has perhaps the best record of acknowledging wrongs of the past (Liberals, at least). But then, you'll always find those who are quick to paint such misdeeds as required for the time. Bombing of Haroshima, the Cambodian campaign, the entrance in the Viet Nam War, and so on. Where there is nuance, (which is almost always), you'll find the patriot the first to excuse their nation.
Is she really far off the mark? I don't think so. What Hareem describes is Chauvinism (in the real sense of the word).
[quote]
I love my country but I hate what the current government is doing. It's wrong and it's my patriotic duty to disagree.
[/quote]
You disagree out of a personal value system that differs from those who support the government. Fair enough. But when loyalist Muslims do the same, it cannotes something different..for some. This is perhaps why Hareem is being picked on?