Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
She has just defined a new term "Muslim Nationalist". What an oxymoron!
Those who argue that Jinnah did not want an Islamic state, but a 'Muslim state' cite Muslim Nationalism as the impetus behind the Pakistan movement.
I do agree, however, the terminology is absurdist. Who to fault for that?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs — War is on!
picoico
Always enjoy reading your replies. You have a way of presenting a different POV.
It is perhaps the apprehension of being labeled a traitor or disloyal that brings about an excuse for accountability of compatriots. A tactic much excercised by the Bush administration … give them a guilt trip.
What she says is definitely Chauvinism or over-zealous and militaristic nationalism. Your statement is in the proper context but hers is not. However I am sure she will understand why people are disagreeing with her now.
This whole discussion is yet another example of how our scholars interpret things the wrong way and declare things to be haram or halal and people blindly follow. Scholars or people who propagate such views need to overhaul their vocabulary.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Setting up a country and a government to run the country and look after the rights of the people is not the same thing as a tribe like the Quraish being over-zealous about their status in society and making other people suffer so that they could continue ruling the roost.
You can call either one nationalism, but they're two different things. The former is permissable in Islam, the latter is not.
I really think that Pakistan has so many problems on its hands right now, that the latter option is not something that most Pakistanis identify with, given that most Pakistanis walk around abroad calling themselves Indian and vehemently denying they're even muslim, and even ignoring other brown people as they walk down the street.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
well i guess the current problem created to damage Pakistan relationship with China. Chinese shouldnt be target as they are not supporting anyone in IRaq and Afghanistan.
US and India can only be two nations that do not want China friendship with Pakistan and regional influence.
Second goal is to involve Army in fight state with citizens like india in Kashmir by exploiting ignorant Mullahs. US dont like any truce in FAta or NWFP.
They have tried it in Blochistan before, failing that its now on new fronts.
front runners may be different, source of these actions are very very suspecious.
So Both Mullahs and Pak government have to do the maths very carefully, loss is Pakistani people. army men or civillians they are Pakistanis.
There is no war between mullah and nationalists, there is a good plan to create a war within Pakistan on pakistani people blood expense.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Consider the well-known expression: "My country, right or wrong."
And in all practical terms, if it's comparing one country to another, a patriot will always err on the side of his or her country. Always.
One will always find ways to excuse their compatriots. How many supported Bush's invasion, and only found their moral compass once the war went bad?
No, to be a patriot does not mandate one turn a blind eye to their nation's misdeeds. America has perhaps the best record of acknowledging wrongs of the past (Liberals, at least). But then, you'll always find those who are quick to paint such misdeeds as required for the time. Bombing of Haroshima, the Cambodian campaign, the entrance in the Viet Nam War, and so on. Where there is nuance, (which is almost always), you'll find the patriot the first to excuse their nation.
Is she really far off the mark? I don't think so. What Hareem describes is Chauvinism (in the real sense of the word).
You disagree out of a personal value system that differs from those who support the government. Fair enough. But when loyalist Muslims do the same, it cannotes something different..for some. This is perhaps why Hareem is being picked on?
JazakAllah khair brother for your post. I think I don't need to write or explain myself any further after this. Thank You:)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs — War is on!
Its not my fault that I cannot see the difference between nationalism and Asabiyyah.
All the people I know who call themselves nationalistic or patriotic support their govt or country’s wrong and unethical actions.
I also agree with Fraudz, many people think every religious person is a terrorist mullah and title of this thread is an example of this stupidity.
People are disagreeing with me bcoz may be they don’t even read my posts and they proudly label them as “nonsensical”.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Setting up a country and a government to run the country and look after the rights of the people is not the same thing as a tribe like the Quraish being over-zealous about their status in society and making other people suffer so that they could continue ruling the roost.
You can call either one nationalism, but they're two different things. The former is permissable in Islam, the latter is not. .
Thats is exactly what I was saying in my previous posts.....you're right the later is called Asabiyyah in Arabic and its haram.(supporting unethical actions or ideas of your family, group, race, country and school of thought)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
The ahadith I've given you are from Siha -e-Sitta. Please prove that those Ahadith are made up.
I guess , she meant Saha Satta here , just pardon her linguistic skills :)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
I guess , she meant Saha Satta here , just pardon her linguistic skills :)
Actually its Saha-e-Sitta.:)
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Thats is exactly what I was saying in my previous posts.....you're right the later is called Asabiyyah in Arabic and its haram.(supporting unethical actions or ideas of your family, group, race, country and school of thought)
Aha. Supporting unethical actions of ones school of thought are haram! Why are all the mullahs supporting Ghazis kidnappings, land grabbing, arson and murders? These actions can not be considered ethical? Why are they spreading lies and rumors? Is that not haram?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Aha. Supporting unethical actions of ones school of thought are haram! Why are all the mullahs supporting Ghazis kidnappings, land grabbing, arson and murders? These actions can not be considered ethical? Why are they spreading lies and rumors? Is that not haram?
I never supported their actions(threats of suicide bombings, abductions etc etc). Satis?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs — War is on!
This thread is being closed for multiple violations of forum policy.
http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=196318
Demeaning derivations of nouns are not permitted to be used because they cause offence to some.