Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
I don't see this as us vs. them rather us vs. us fight. The tiny radical class within has been exposed. They were nurtured by us in our mosques, schools and military; one of the reasons why we were unable to make any real progress.
We need to take out the emotions, yesterdays friends/ brothers have turned against us. Killing our women, children and soldiers; holding us hostage with their twisted backward mentality of Armageddon. The sooner we disassociate ourselves from them, the better we are in cleansing our country from this filth.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Why shouldn't they trust us when Islam allows us to defend the countries we live in from attacks but we should question if we should trust countries who require us to break our religious bonds by making us place nationalism above our beliefs when it is the law of the secular states not to interfere in people's faith?
But what if your non muslim country is attacked by a muslim state would you still defend your country? I hope you remember the thread where the muslim soldiers in UK where proclaimed "kaffir" because UK is waging war on Afghanland and I-rack. If you look at these wars maybe these are wrong to start with but are in America and UK's national interest. Do you back these wars?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs — War is on!
Hareem behna, you have good access to knowledge however it takes a little more maturity to relate to it. None of your posts have made any sense in this thread. I think you should stop arguing. In Islam only things related to Aqidah, acts of worship and major sins are black and white however the rest depends on more than one line Yes or No rules. Things always appear bipolar in a young age however it is not that way, it never was and still is not. Nationalism is not a simple word being good or bad, it has many conntations or meanings. It depends on how you view it and based on that view it may or may not be haram in Islam. Asabiyyah is but a small subset of the word nationalism in a broad sense.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
So speaking of Nationalism... Do you guys think that an Indian Muslims first loyalty is to his country? At what point does a Muslim put his relgion first?
Take the whole Kashmir thing, considering how its obvious the many human rights violations that have occured, are Indian Muslims guilty of not doing more to help those people by Islamic principles?
Sorry if im just rehashing what already been said, but just wondering.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
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No one cares what the term "secularist" in this discussion is. No historical analysis proves that somehow the struggle of Pakistan was between Mullahtics and secularists.
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I'm quite certain you're not even privy to the details. In any case, you're right. Secularists were simply not in the picture until now.
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Simply put Pakistan was an alternative non-commie arrangement for governing 5 provinces and Mullahtics were deathly against it.
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Many were. Once it was a reality, many opted to follow for sake of unity.
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If you get out of this burqa mentality and the associated niqab, you will hopefully see clearly that.
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Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Rarely I agree with you. Actually I am surprised at your statement.
Why? I'm quite consistent in my views. When trying to be impartial (well, as much as I can be given my own personal bias), I'll obviously sound pro-militant to those who hate anything with a beard.
On the contrary, I've discovered the true amount of blind hate in people who I thought were well above it.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Religion should just not interfere with politics! it should be personal and spiritual... the moment it turns political you are always going to have a conflict of interest..
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Religion should just not interfere with politics! it should be personal and spiritual... the moment it turns political you are always going to have a conflict of interest..
Bravo! Well said. That is why I am against the RS$hites mixing Dharma with politics.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
But what if your non muslim country is attacked by a muslim state would you still defend your country?
Yes I'll defend my non-muslim country in accordance to Islamic teachings(no killings of women & children) against that muslim country.
I hope you remember the thread where the muslim soldiers in UK where proclaimed "kaffir" because UK is waging war on Afghanland and I-rack. If you look at these wars maybe these are wrong to start with but are in America and UK's national interest. Do you back these wars?
No I don't support these wars like many non-muslim non-nationalistic Americans and Britishs.
Remember nationalists have to support their country in every situation whether it is wrong or right.
Hope you understand this.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Religion should just not interfere with politics! it should be personal and spiritual... the moment it turns political you are always going to have a conflict of interest..
I agree with a lot of things in this thread but this is one where I do not agree. Please elaborate what is it in religion (only talking about Islam) that cannot be part of politics. Politics is not a bad thing, its governance, its management of a country or city etc. Can't we be in politics if we believe in God or if we pray or ifwe fast or if we give charity or if we do hajj or if we wage a jihad through our parliament and legislature against the social ills and vices in our society or make decisions in the best interest of the country or defend the country from external agression or show solidarity with worldly concerns. Why this slogan that it is a personal and spiritual thing?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Remember nationalists have to support their country in every situation whether it is wrong or right.
Hope you understand this.
Behna, this is where I differ. A nationalist has to support the country in its best interests, being a muslim nationalist I have to support my country in its best interests that are not un-Islamic. If a nationalist had to support their country in right or wrong they would rarely ever reform or progress. Those who defend a countries borders are not the only nationalists or those who support them. A countries policy makers, think tanks etc are all nationalists in a broad sense. Who would willingly want to wreck his own country.
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
Behna, this is where I differ.** A nationalist has to support the country in its best interests, being a muslim nationalist I have to support my country in its best interests that are not un-Islamic.** If a nationalist had to support their country in right or wrong they would rarely ever reform or progress. Those who defend a countries borders are not the only nationalists or those who support them. A countries policy makers, think tanks etc are all nationalists in a broad sense. Who would willingly want to wreck his own country.
But you also condemn and disagree with un-islamic and unethical methods used by government for the best of your country?
Re: Nationalist Pakistanis vs. Mullahs --- War is on!
But you also condemn and disagree with un-islamic and unethical methods used by government for the best of your country?
I do not condone unethical methods however I do not have a narrow view of things. To destabilize your country's governance is far worse and unethical and inviting to enemy agression. You do not revolt against your government unless you have the means to effectively replace them in all their functions. The agenda of tribal Mullahs is to have Shariah in the country however they fail to quantify which laws of the country are really against the Shariah.
Let me explain it to you in terms that you will definitely understand knowing your religious committments. The world today condemns Islam all over. Yet we keep clarifying that the things that they accuse us of are not in Islam. What the world does is extrapolate their condemnation of muslim actions to our Islamic pillars i.e. Quran, Sunnah and even Prophet SAW. We say our sources are not wrong, then obviously that means that our actions are because they contradict our sources. Use this parable to understand the situation in Pakistan. There is little wrong in the laws and consitution of the country, its the people whose actions are not in conformance with the country's laws and regulations. Once we are civil enough to live according to the rules we formed the country on, then we can further analyze what is un-Islamic or not. Islam does not say decide things on the street. Things are decided in a Shurah, the equivalent of which in our modern society is the elected legislature and parliament.
