My official stance on burqas

Re: My official stance on burqas

There is no one saying women should take off the burqas. There should also be no one saying they should put it on. The whole point was what it symbolizes? How this whole thing started out and transformed into a strict code of moral behaviour ordained by society and sanctioned by state. That I think is a sign of oppression.

Roman, that's self-contradictory. If you think its a sign of oppression, then you are essentially saying that women should take off the burqas. Because if you say its a sign of oppression, but then women should be allowed to keep them on, then you're promoting oppression. So please be more clear, or stop being wishy washy about the topic.

Wise One: That's a good example of what I'm trying to say.

Re: My official stance on burqas

And the great wise one speaks. Ironic isn’t it that for 1500 years or more it accepted easily. But in the past 7 years it is seen as oppression so our dear green card desiring brothers of the amsterdam club think it is oppression.

It is allowed under US law so who gives a damn what you think.

Re: My official stance on burqas

PCG, women wear burqa marjorily because of security, pressure, and false sense of piety embedded in the long-run tradition exploited by religious clerics. Now if a woman wears a burqa ONLY because she thinks 'I can't handle the stares' then burqa is not really the issure or solution here (in this case, yes, it's not oppression) but there is something more psychological involved at personal level which is not as drastic as to call for taking off the burqa. Question is, how many women wear burqa because of such personal reasons? Probably many but still not the majority. That's what my guess is.

Now why it symbolizes oppression is because someone handed this over to women long ago telling them they are insecure instead of curing the very reasons for which they were insecure. So when I say no one is asking to take it off or should not ask to put it on that's what I mean.

Re: My official stance on burqas

Ladies and Germs… low and behold I present the ultimate solution to all our sufferings

^well the idealistic cure to all our problems related and or non-related to burqa or not…will be to wipe the face of this planet free of apes (who are described by the magical word:MEN)…then we can make merry, dance, be happy be liberated of all sorts of oppression, suppression, deppression and soooooooooooo tranquil that we don’t need any ice-holes or bigger bastages to start writing up threads, constantly complianing and whining their asses off to infinity and beyond on gup, in our face somewhere on earth or in our daily lives ever ever ever EVER AGAIN!!!

Guys will enjoy the constant bliss of eternal peace (which they’ve always sought or so they say) and we can do whatever to our hearts utmost content we want! not grinning

DIE Already will ya’ll!

…'n Amen to that!

Re: My official stance on burqas

i dont think i was judging the non hijabi’s i was talking about my personal experience. why do non-hijabi’s have this image of hijabi’s as eing hostile towards them?

Re: My official stance on burqas

Indeed the best policy

Re: My official stance on burqas

sorry, wasnt referrign to u devoted :slight_smile:

Re: My official stance on burqas

PCG, women wear burqa marjorily because of security, pressure, and false sense of piety embedded in the long-run tradition exploited by religious clerics.

Pressure - bad, agreed.
False sense of piety - bad, agreed.

Security? What’s wrong with a woman covering herself for security reasons? If that’s one way she thinks she can keep a guys’ gandhi nazrein off her, then may she be merry. :k:

Now if a woman wears a burqa ONLY because she thinks ‘I can’t handle the stares’ then burqa is not really the issure or solution here (in this case, yes, it’s not oppression) but there is something more psychological involved at personal level which is not as drastic as to call for taking off the burqa.

Can you clarify this…I lost your reasoning after “I can’t handle the stares”. What are you trying to say about these women?

Question is, how many women wear burqa because of such personal reasons? Probably many but still not the majority. That’s what my guess is.

Such personal reasons as “I can’t handle the stares”?

Whether women wear it for a good reason or for a bad reason is independent of the actual function of the Burqa and the NORMATIVE idea of whether it SHOULD be worn or SHOULD NOT be worn.

Do you see what I’m saying?

Normative: The Burqa should not/should be worn.
Descriptive: Most ladies wear burqas because of bad reasons.

Now, your concern is the “bad reasons”. The pressure, the anti-female culture, the oppression, etc.

So then ADDRESS these topics. Because these reasons are an underlying problem that is not limited to the Burqa. FYI - girls who don’t wear burqa are also oppressed, and pressured in many ways.

I wouldn’t say I’m oppressed, but often times I’ve been pressured to do things because its the right thing to do for a “girl”. And I disliked it. My case is not very drastic at all - limited to small things, and I don’t listen to my parents anyway, so it doesn’t matter to me.

But I see girls who don’t wear burqa all the time being pressured to not go to college, to not go on for more education/good jobs after college/highschool, to get married to someone because the parents like the family or they like the family’s money…etc.

Females are abused all the time in Pakistan - to the point that the stat is 2/3 women are abused. I think this is physical abuse only - not sure though!

Regardless, the stats are really high. Not all these ladies are forced into wearing Burqa.

So your main concern of oppression is really just related to the Burqa, but if you make a thread focusing on Burqas, then its the wrong way and the typical way to go about it.

Just address oppression in general itself. Once that problem is solved, then Burqas will be used correctly by most girls who decide to wear it.

Bringing in Burqas into this discussion only turns a thread into hijabi vs. nonhijabi.

Now why it symbolizes oppression is because someone handed this over to women long ago telling them they are insecure instead of curing the very reasons for which they were insecure. So when I say no one is asking to take it off or should not ask to put it on that’s what I mean.

Who told them to wear a burqa because they’re insecure?

The assigment of a burqa, first of all, is under much debate. Many scholars even go so far as to say that a burqa was not perscribed, just modest clothing and a head covering. Some go further and say that not even a head covering is necessary.

Regardless, the command to dress modestly (which I can say all muslim ladies and gentlemen agree on - so lets go from there) is not assigned because females are “insecure” by nature or are told they’re insecure.

Its assigned, because if a woman is to protect her body (from rape, from gandhi nazrein, etc), then she has to take SOME iniative to do that. She can put in her 100 percent effort to minimize the risk of anyone harming her, and anyone embarrassing her, and anyone making her feel like she’s a piece of meat.

Now does that mean if she wears a burqa/hijab/modest clothing, that she will not be raped? Of course not. Ladies in the Prophet’s time were raped, despite wearing decent clothing. (refer to my rape thread in religion for those hadith).

But she did her end of the job, and that’s what matters.

Re: My official stance on burqas

why people wear clothes at all?

Re: My official stance on burqas

You know, Roman, walking the streets of my town here in South Florida, I don't feel like anyone is looking at me with Gandhi nazrein. The people in the town are mostly educated, and are not sexually frustrated, and most importantly, there are major laws here that are actually EXECUTED against guys that harm ladies sexually.

Even if a guy says something offensive to a girl, she can report it as sexual harassment, and he can get punished for it.

So here, I dont walk around with any kind of head covering or chaddar around my body.

When I go to Pakistan, those kinds of laws are not there. If I got raped, the law says (contrary to Islam by the way!) that I need 4 witnesses to prove that this guy raped me. Even a MEDICAL REPORT is often not honored!!!!!!!

Even if no rape occurs (nothing yet, thank God), I am still grabbed on the streets. I dont know if you read one of my stories in Life1, but I was grabbed in the crotch when I was 14 in some Saddar bazaar. By the way, it was a bazaar in which they sell cloth - so most of the customers are actually females anyway. And STILL I faced this treatment from some guy wandering thru there!!!!

I get pinched in my behind all the time.

Apart from the physical harassment/abuse, I get guys making the most PERVERTED faces at me.

Now this is not just ME. Its almost every Pakistani girl.

So in an environment like THAT, guess what I do? I keep my chaddar over my body, cover my head, wear NO make-up.

That's how I go out shopping. I hate doing that because when I walk into an expensive boutique the sales girls don't pay any attention to me, and some even go as far as making a snooty face. Good for them - they just lost money, but how does that make me feel as a girl out shopping??

But I have to do it, because it actually EFFECTIVELY minimizes a lot of problems I have in the streets. I've already experimented on it - I get hit on a lot more if I'm wearing make-up, and wearing a fitted shalwaar kameez.

Now you come here and tell me that I'm doing it for oppression? Excuse me, mister. Go fix the laws of Pakistan first and fix the stupid mentality of ghattiya men, and then come and talk to me about hijaab and burqas.

Re: My official stance on burqas

what u mean " if u get raped" that means u expect to get that!

Re: My official stance on burqas

Have u met Pakistani street urchins, Marshad? Have u talked to girls who have walked the streets of Karachi?

Re: My official stance on burqas

by time passing by people get their awnsers thru experience and nature so u would get urs awnsers too!

Re: My official stance on burqas

^ come again?

Re: My official stance on burqas

ok

Re: My official stance on burqas

It's quite funny, that all the aggrieved non-Muslims are so gung-ho about Muslim women wearing BurQa, yet they would be the first one to put down or look down upon someone wearing one...

Also the reason there are no shouts of protests on this board is because there are none BurQa wearing ladies here...There are other sites where I know a few BurQa wearing and NiQab wearing ladies...

Every non-Muslim is concerned about BurQa and how oppressive it is...Strange, in all my years of experience, including having family members who wear a BurQa, I have never heard anyone complain...

You want issues which are more pressing? Just dive into the Iraq massacre...Many instances of deaths caused by bullying from a powerful but insecure nation...That requires more attention, not something that Muslim women choose to wear...

Re: My official stance on burqas

1 agree

Re: My official stance on burqas

The security bit: Here are, say, two groups of men. One the ganday one and the other who don't like the bad ones staring/offending females. Instead of addressing the root of the cause which is to flourish a society where bad ones won't have the nerve, they put burqa on women to hide the object of attraction--they cannot protect themselves so wrap them up.

Talking oppression in general: You can talk about oppression in general and then end up with hundred of items, burqa being one, polygmy being two, etc etc, or you can look at one specific thing in retrospect. Two different approaches looking at the same thing.

Instances where you were groped or pinched: Exactly my point when I say 'instituting respect and order for women'. If the society and state had done anything to address that instead of condoning the act and leaving women to opt for burqa since they don't have any other choice in this case and it seems the immediate solution, then you won't have to go to Pakistan with a chadar. In other words, if a woman choose to wear burqa on her own to safeguard herself from luchay lafangay then theoratically it's as bad as someone imposing it on her because she should not have to wear a burqa to feel secure.

Now about rape: Rape got a lot more to do with control and power than sexual glut. Burqa is also about control and power. Control and power of the offenders because of whom women have to wear it. So fine, when there were dark ages, that seemed to be the imminent solution. But what have societies like Saudi Arabia done in past 1400 years, and living in present day world, provide sense of security and respect without having to dress women as if they are weaker? Why don't they put burqa on offenders' eyes?

Re: My official stance on burqas

good explanation janab!

Re: My official stance on burqas

Romanm, its pretty simple. Har kissi ney apni apni Qabr mey Jana hai. If the woman decides to wear burqa...let her. If she does not...its her choice. You dont have to wear a burqa to be islamically cover yourself.
As far as the lafangays are concerned...they are the scums that give our scoiety bad name. Of course the easy excuse for many modern muslims is to blame that on Islam...Islam has nothing to do with it. Its the faulty upbringing and backward thinking that creates characters such as those.
Regarding Saudi...I will be the first one to admit that Saudi's are the most racist and corrupt people, but they have done a few things that need to be commended. What I am about to write will open up another can of worms...but here it goes. They have implemented some of the sharia laws..you steal..left hand gone, you rape and are convicted...you are dead. oh and the most important thing they have is called black gold that we are very much dependant upon.