Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof!!!

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Learn to read. I already told you, I dont think his ouster was the ideal, but who am I to question the will of the Egyptians. Im not Egyptian. I understandthe complexity of the situation. Personally I think he should have been allowed to complete his term and his dictatorial tendencies countered through other means. If Morsi and his party weren't so dumb, they may still have been in power.

My only gripe is with idiots Islamists who were barking over ISLAMIC rule having won over secularism in Egypt. Seems your ISLAMIC govt in Egypt wasnt what the Egyptians voted for, and you should be a man and admit you were wrong.

The thing that burns me up are stupid people who think ISLAM is the solution to everything, but have no idea what that entails nor have any concept of what Secularism is. They stupidly parrot these cliches they have picked up from the madrassa, but have no understanding of anything beyond their cliches.. You have been taught that secularism is evil. but you dont know WHY its evil, is it really against Islam, you have a very shallow understanding of reality, of history, and of islam quite frankly. But here you are, pretending you have a point.

Its not my anti morsi rant, it from an ARTICLE. CLICK on the link... You do know how to double click?

Just because MORSI claims to be Islamic doesnt mean you have to blindly support him.

Its not Anti Islam, it only anti YOU. I believe you misrepresent Islam. You have a very weak and shallow understanding of Islam, and you arent very smart in general it seems, and so you cover up your intellectual frailty with your hyperactive religious zeal and accusatory posts. Now just because you cant understand my posts or the points im trying to make, doesnt mean im anti Islam, it just means your not very sharp.

AGAIN: Read the article i posted. You selectivly read only those articles that support your view, but ignore anything that offers an alternative. Anything that paints America in a negative light is truth as far as your concerned and anything that highlights morsis own failings is propaganda!
People in Egypt came out in force not because the Americans told them to, but because they had issues with Morsi and his party. Read the article! Stop wasting my time. If you wont read the article, I wont respond to you.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

It may well be that the secular Egyptians get the rug pulled out from under them once again...a pro-Saudi military-salafist nexus is not an impossibility. And then the generals will bark at the secular protesters: go home or be shot.

But the behavior of secularists in this context is perhaps something familiar to us, by now. It's all good so long as religious Muslims are getting stomped and their pet ideology is given room sans competition. And what we see from these Egyptians is the secular model in the Muslim world.

The prospects for secularism within Egypt remain slim. Society really is deeply conservative. That the MB experienced large discontent is more to their clubhouse style of governance than anything else.

That's actually somewhat of a shame...the real problems with Egypt require a secular focus. Regardless of one's ideological outlook.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Secularists can ALSO be religious. Being a supporter of Secularism doesnt make anyone any less religious then those who are against it.
The "religious" weren't stomped on, they were given full opportunity to prove themselves and could not. They proved to be as bad a their predecessor. Hence, their own failures led to their ouster. And the places you claim they were stomped on were ruled by authoritarian govts who do not tolerate any dissent, be it from secular forces or religious ones.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

There is no salafi coming to power this is media nonsense, when the system is secualr it impossible for islam to come to rule over the people which is their wish.

They system needs to change and it will now that democracy has been exposed as a fraud to the muslims who actually naively believed it would allow islamic laws to rule over them.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

except there are only like 2-3 muslim countries where democracy is actually implemented. so what is the excuse for the others from being amazingly prosperous etc? :confused:

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

2-3? there over 55 countries which we can call muslim dominated nations i don’t see democracy (capitalist democracy) bringing them amazingly prosperous i see them being exploited and put into amazing debt.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Because the majority of Muslim nations arent democracies nor secular. But countries like Turkey and Indonesia, as well as Bangladesh, all secular countries (at least on paper) are growing. Turkey has been booming for a number of years. Indonesia could be among the next inductee into the BRIC nations (some are contemplating the possibility of replacing India with Indonesia, sorry India), and Bangladesh has been growing a roughly 6 percent annually and some of its social indicators are healthier then India's.

At the very least, not mixing govt with religion has allowed a degree of stability in these countries. Not the case anywhere Religion has been the center piece of all policy.

Regardless however, you seem to have this childish notion of the world. All the problems of every nation in the world, comes down to NOT being religious enough. No complexity, no understanding of the intricate dynamics of the societies in question, just a blanket assumption that all there problems are due to being "democracies' and not being based on "Islam." You must realize how simplistic and naive that sounds?

Its why no one takes people like you seriously, and why other people like you (Morsi and Muslim Brotherhood for example) fail so miserably. you dont have anything to offer in ways of pragmatic solutions to resolve any of societies complex problems. All you have are tired old cliches. That can win you an election, but people quickly realize how hollow you are.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

^There is ample evidence that problems in Egypt were manufactured. The most frequently cited grievance of protestors were fuel shortage and law and order. Interestingly the minister of energy and interior minister in Morsi's term have been retained and continue to serve in the present government! and fuel shortages have disappeared within a week and police are back on streets.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

While I cant comment on the complexities of Egyptian politics, there really is no consensus on what is happening. But im sure there were those who were active in undermining him, but thats nothing new in politics anywhere in the world.
There are alternative theories, and competing claims.
Did Egypt Sabotage Itself to Make Morsi Look Bad? - Dashiell Bennett - The Atlantic Wire
A blog cited in the above article: Contends that the shortage is NOT over…
Is Egypt’s Fuel Crisis Over? | REBEL ECONOMY
Interesting quote from the blog:
"… the simplest answer is usually the right one.

Did anyone consider the fact that as millions of Egyptians took to the streets, very few people were actually at home or at work using electricity or filling up their cars? It is rational to expect that with business pretty much at a standstill on the anniversary of Mohammed Morsi’s presidency, the demand on domestic energy was actually quite low, meaning we were in a comfortable position for the days leading up and after his ouster. Electricity-generating power stations are by and large run with natural gas, and with demand much lower for that week, it’s likely the capacity would not have been overcome as it has in the past."

Here is a good article on why Morsi was ultimately overthrown… Policy blunders.
How Morsi, Brotherhood Lost Egypt - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

You should listen your own advise and Learn to read

I already posted i did not support morsi on one issue, why you continue with this line, one can only conclude you cannot read yourself.

Nobody i know was claiming islam defeated secularism because the secular constitution of Egypt has been untouched, so it still has to be changed and put in dustbin of history in near future inshallah.

You have difficulty grasping what is an islamic government for example why did Morsi continue with treaty with israel, why has the economy not moved from riba, why has no laws changed to shariah.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Democracy has been discredited by the recent actions in Egypt, i don't think it holds much value if a military can come along and throw the peoples votes in the bin.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Not really, the people came out and changed their minds protesting against Morsi and for his removal. He refuses to resign do was rightfully removed by the military.

So can one of the Islamists please tell us which sharia law country is so successful? And who will decide what sharia law is?

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Also this thread title makes no sense, of course a secular government won't allow Islam to rule because then it wouldn't be secular. Why do you new the government to make you stick to your religion's rules?

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

the people came out? the people was shot dead by the military for protesting against the military or did you miss the hundreds of thousands of people protesting against what the Egyptian Army did.

Islam has been sucessful for 1400 years of islamic rule but since 1924 there has been no islamic state only dictatorships, kingships and puppet democracies like in pakistan.

There is one quran and one islam the islamic government will make clear the law of the land.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

At least you admit one truth and all muslims should realize you can never implement islam by going through secular system this is whole point of the thread.

Morsi and his party wasted time trying to think they would implement islam in this way the secularists just phoned army and ignored the fact Morsi party win the election.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Lol… Thats a great point. I totally missed that one… :hehe:

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

Thanks for not answering my questions. So none of the countries who currently apply sharia law are any good I take it. How do you think a sharia state would work? There will need to be a leader and a government, and they will need to interpret the Quran which is 1400 years outbid date so they will need to make stuff up.

And I'll ask my other question but won't expect a coherent response. Why do you need the government to make sure you stick to Islamic rules? If you're such a good god fearing chap you'll stick to them yourself.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

He doesnt doubt his own religiosity, he doubts that of others. Hence, the only way for him to force others in his society to conform to his concept of Islam is if he has an "Islamic" govt to impose such concepts and enforce them through state power.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof


which countries have shariah law, einstein? this should be fun.

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Re: Muslims wake up secular Democracy will never accept islam to rule, Egypt is proof

i remember asking you this. and you didnt answer. who has the shariah law you want to implement? and if no one does, why are they unable to do this?